Questions on Marriage/NFP etc

[anon1234567]

Basically yesterday I started thinking about marriage and now I have a fair few questions/worries. I really considered putting this in vocations but that’s more like ‘Do you think I should go with the Dominicans or the Franciscans?’ and not ‘Marriage is “scaring” me a bit’

1. Until yesterday I thought that it was okay to use NFP throughout your marriage to actually plan when to have children and what made it different from contraception was that you still weren’t putting anything in the way of creating life. Having found out that you can only use NFP if you have a grave reason to do so it seems like just not really wanting to have more than say four children doesn’t really fit in with that, so I don’t have a great deal of choice about possibly having lots of children and suddenly the idea of marriage seems pretty different and quite scary.
2. I read a thread a couple of weeks ago that was basically saying that someone should love their spouse more than their children according church teaching, which I’d never heard before and it seems the opposite to how most parents (together) feel and if we’re meant to love our spouse so much then why do we see having children as so important? If you get my drift…
3. I’m not averse to children (I definitely think that babies are cute) but never having had a boyfriend I hadn’t really thought a lot about what happens after marriage. I don’t want to lose out on time with my husband when we’d have children and it seems sensible to get to know each other more after marriage instead of having children straight away, but this doesn’t seem like a grave reason to avoid pregnancy either… It kind of saddens me to think that after we (as in me and my potential-future-husband-I’ve-never-met) marry and have children that our relationship won’t be the same again and we just won’t really have fun or time alone.
4. I’m not really sure if I’d be a good mum either, because I’m really disorganized and being the youngest of three (by 7 and 11 years) I’m not really that familiar with babies and young children apart when I was one and my 5 year old niece (who I might not see again!) but I’ve never really felt that interested in playing with her or felt a strong kind of attachment with her. How is an introvert meant to parent anyway? I don’t like telling people what to do (I share this with my dad)
5. Before, when I thought of marriage it was a couple with children but I never really thought what pregnancy would be like and I don’t really want my body to change, probably because it’s a big change and it would me freak out.
6. Do you think that if you follow a good diet, your health/fitness is good before and through pregnancy, you’re relaxed and you choose a good position to birth in, 9/10 labour won’t be too long or painful?
7. It is striking me as quite unfair that there is no equivalent to childbirth which is equally painful that men have to go through.
8. I do like to think about marriage but I usual imagine another couple, as if I like the idea but it’s not for me. Probably, it’s just self confidence issues shining through
9. Last thing. Every time this issue pops up it feels like I hear a different answer: If you are taking a birth control pill for a medical reason do you have to abstain? Does it depend on whether or not it acts as an abortifacient or something?

Thanks for reading!

Please don’t lay into me for being a bit lazy/selfish:imsorry:

 

[Corki]

1. The teaching is not “grave” reason, it’s a “just” reason. NFP can be used by married couples to space their children (which is a just reason itself) or to delay another child for a reason that is not selfish.
2. I have always been uncomfortable with people who seem to treat love as a finite quantity that we divide between spouse and kids. Kids are important because they are part of your family. Same with your spouse.
3. The time to “get to know each other” is when you are discerning marriage. Once you get married, it should be because you are sure you want to build a family.
4. If you really feel that you are not meant to be a parent, then you probably don’t have a vocation to marriage. Ideally, they are part of the same vocation. Marrying with a permanent intent to exclude children can result in an invalid marriage.
5. No offense, but how old are you? Lots of things make your body change - it’s called life.
6. Taking care of yourself during pregnancy can help make labor easier but it’s not a guarantee. Every mother is different and every pregnancy is different.

6 (again) So men don’t get to be mothers. And women don’t get to be fathers.

1. That will probably change when you are in a serious relationship.
2. That’s a matter to discuss with your confessor, IF you are ever faced with such a situation. Birth control pills have lots of side effects and are rarely the best way to treat a medical issue. IF you are married and IF you are faced with such a medical issue that only birth control pills can treat, you will need to have that discussion with a good priest.

 

[ThatCatholic]

1. Just reason, not grave reason. If a couple discerns that they have reached the morally correct number of children (the number God intends for them) they may use NFP to avoid more children.
2. To be blunt, some people don’t know what they’re talking about.
3. It is just to space children.
4. I can’t help you here.
5. I can’t help here either.
6. I wouldn’t know, although I hear that some modern painkillers are highly effective.
7. In toil we must eat the yield of the Earth.
8. Perhaps you’re not called to marriage, I advise speaking with an orthodox priest.
9. If the direct purpose of the pill is to prevent ovulation (e.g. taking the pill to prevent menstrual pain) then you must abstain. If the pill is taken to treat something else like cancer, where the prevention of ovulation is not intended, then abstinence is not required of a married woman.

 

[Corki]

1. Just reason, not grave reason. If a couple discerns that they have reached the morally correct number of children (the number God intends for them) they may use NFP to avoid more children.

A number itself is not a just reason. There isn’t a “morally correct number of children”. The Church teaches that NFP can be used to space or delay (even permanently), the birth of a couple’s next child. A couple cannot licitly use NFP from the beginning of their marriage as an attempt to reach a certain number of children.

 

[ThatCatholic]

A number itself is not a just reason. There isn’t a “morally correct number of children”. The Church teaches that NFP can be used to space or delay (even permanently), the birth of a couple’s next child. A couple cannot licitly use NFP from the beginning of their marriage as an attempt to reach a certain number of children.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb120.htm

Third section, first paragraph.

 

[Corki]

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/jp2tb120.htm

Third section, first paragraph.

You have to read that paragraph in light of Section I, first paragraph, which sets out the concept of the morally correct natural order of fecundity.

It must also be read in context with other Church documents such as Humanae Vitae:

With regard to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised by those who prudently and generously decide to have more children, and by those who, for serious reasons and with due respect to moral precepts, decide not to have additional children for either a certain or an indefinite period of time.

(section 10)

A couple can decide at some point in time that it is prudent and responsible not to have another child or not to have another child right now for any just reason. There is no way a couple could foresee what just reasons they might face at some point in the future after the birth of “X” children. A morally just number of children, as used by Blessed Pope John Paul II is not a goal, but a minimum.

 

[KellyPalmer]

I’m not going to go into each number – I’m going to kind of address the whole thing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you are just a little scared and unsure because you don’t have a lot of experience with babies or boys for that matter. Given that, it’s normal to feel this way. Long ago, most people would have more experience with babies having lived in more of a community type of upbringing but today we are pretty isolated and live in a culture of death. Not a lot of babies around for many children growing up.

Try to keep in mind that babies are the product of love. Having not loved a man in that way, it’s hard to understand that fact. But this is the way that God created the order of things and we need not be afraid of his design. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son! Love gives life! Without the love, the life part seems more scary. It’s understandable to feel this way.

The entire process is a huge lesson in love and therefore God. It’s a huge lesson in humility, holiness and sanctification. This is no accident! Do not be afraid! Easier said than done, I know! But work on trusting that God has designed it this way for the best of reasons.

You’ve been raised in a culture of death and therefore life is made to seem inconvenient and scary. And while it is true that it is hard work to be a parent, it’s not as doom and gloom as our society seems to suggest. You can still get to know your spouse as you parent together. The whole “put your spouse first” bit is quite misunderstood by many IMO. Here is an excerpt from an article I was reading recently:

"In Christian families, it has been said that the following priorities must be observed: First God, then spouse, then child. This statement contains a grain of truth but can easily lead to a great falsehood. We demonstrate our love for God precisely by loving our spouse, and that for our spouse by loving our child. We do not love God at the expense of our spouse, or our spouse at the expense of our child. Love is a boundless treasure that increases when it is given away; it is not a limited commodity that must be parsimoniously divided.

When family members are endowed with an intrinsic value that is based on their position in the family structure (as opposed to their essential personhood), or when attention or love are preferentially apportioned dogmatically on the basis of such position (as opposed to the needs of the person), familial charity falls short of its potential. Consequently, an organic community of persons fulfilling appropriate roles is replaced by a simplistic and artificial hierarchy of relative powers."

ezzo.info/Articles/neo_evangelizing2.htm

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

All I can say is Be not Afraid!!!

We aren’t here on Earth to try to find what makes us happy, we need to seek His will, (but seeking His will does bring us happiness)! He loves us more than anyone can, His will is what is best for us!

That being said… don’t worry about what God has in store for you. So, you don’t get to travel the world before baby comes (that was one of the things I wanted to do), so what!? When we die it won’t matter whether we went to Egypt, China, Australia. You know what? I don’t care about many things I thought I wanted prior to getting married and having children; I love my kiddos and am thankful for the family God has sent us. God gives you graces to deal with your own children, don’t worry about not feeling excited about other people’s kids .

Pregnancy has changed my body, and has helped me with vanity , but I’m on my 6th round now, so it isn’t something that I can’t deal with .

I’m not sure if any of this is helpful to you, but I wanted to share my experience with you because I can understand where you are coming from. It can be hard to realize that life isn’t based on what we want to do, how we want to do it, but in seeking His will to do our best while we are here on Earth .

 

[Rachel126]

1. The official english translation of Humanae Vitae does not say “grave reasons.” It says “well grounded reasons.” (Go look it up on the vatican website if you want). The Catechism says “just” reasons. While there are some people who will tell you that only life-or-death reasons are acceptable for postponing or avoiding pregnancy, that idea is simply nowhere to be found in the official church documents. The Catechism says that couples must make sure they are not motivated by selfishness. But of course, there are plenty of well grounded reasons for avoiding pregnancy that aren’t selfish.
   At the same time, it is probably wise to not be completely set on a certain number now, or even early in your marriage, because things can change. There are people who think they are going to stop at one or two kids, and find themselves open to 3 or 4. Similarly, there are people who believe they are going to have 6 or 8 kids, and then find that their finances and emotional energy are overtaxed by, say, 4 kids far more than they had imagined would be the case, and they choose to stop sooner than they had planned. There are other things to consider too–you don’t know your future financial situation, or future health situation. In my case, severe clinical post-partum depression did me in after two kids. There was no way to foresee this.

There is no competition between love for your spouse and love for your kids. It doesn’t need to be divided up among them. There is plenty of love to go around.

Labor is different for everyone. Some women have short labors, others have long ones. The drugs available are helpful. And unlike the “old days”, if your labor progresses too long, they will eventually put you out of your misery and do a c-section.

If you are prescribed birth control pills for a legitimate medical reason, you don’t need to abstain. The contraceptive effect is considered a side effect of the legitimate treatment of a medical condition.

 

[anon1234567]

1. The teaching is not “grave” reason, it’s a “just” reason. NFP can be used by married couples to space their children (which is a just reason itself) or to delay another child for a reason that is not selfish.
2. I have always been uncomfortable with people who seem to treat love as a finite quantity that we divide between spouse and kids. Kids are important because they are part of your family. Same with your spouse.
3. The time to “get to know each other” is when you are discerning marriage. Once you get married, it should be because you are sure you want to build a family.
4. If you really feel that you are not meant to be a parent, then you probably don’t have a vocation to marriage. Ideally, they are part of the same vocation. Marrying with a permanent intent to exclude children can result in an invalid marriage.
5. No offense, but how old are you? Lots of things make your body change - it’s called life.
6. Taking care of yourself during pregnancy can help make labor easier but it’s not a guarantee. Every mother is different and every pregnancy is different.

6 (again) So men don’t get to be mothers. And women don’t get to be fathers.

1. That will probably change when you are in a serious relationship.
2. That’s a matter to discuss with your confessor, IF you are ever faced with such a situation. Birth control pills have lots of side effects and are rarely the best way to treat a medical issue. IF you are married and IF you are faced with such a medical issue that only birth control pills can treat, you will need to have that discussion with a good priest.

Thankyou! I know I sounded mad but I was having ‘lightbulb’ moment and I figure it would sound less weird in real life but my parents don’t use NFP so they weren’t really going to be helpful in this instance. About #5 I think its just that its (literally) a **big **change

1. Just reason, not grave reason. If a couple discerns that they have reached the morally correct number of children (the number God intends for them) they may use NFP to avoid more children.
2. To be blunt, some people don’t know what they’re talking about.
3. It is just to space children.
4. I can’t help you here.
5. I can’t help here either.
6. I wouldn’t know, although I hear that some modern painkillers are highly effective.
7. In toil we must eat the yield of the Earth.
8. Perhaps you’re not called to marriage, I advise speaking with an orthodox priest.
9. If the direct purpose of the pill is to prevent ovulation (e.g. taking the pill to prevent menstrual pain) then you must abstain. If the pill is taken to treat something else like cancer, where the prevention of ovulation is not intended, then abstinence is not required of a married woman.

Thankyou I think I’ll be focusing more on my vocation in the coming months.

I’m not going to go into each number – I’m going to kind of address the whole thing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you are just a little scared and unsure because you don’t have a lot of experience with babies or boys for that matter. Given that, it’s normal to feel this way. Long ago, most people would have more experience with babies having lived in more of a community type of upbringing but today we are pretty isolated and live in a culture of death. Not a lot of babies around for many children growing up.

Try to keep in mind that babies are the product of love. Having not loved a man in that way, it’s hard to understand that fact. But this is the way that God created the order of things and we need not be afraid of his design. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son! Love gives life! Without the love, the life part seems more scary. It’s understandable to feel this way.

The entire process is a huge lesson in love and therefore God. It’s a huge lesson in humility, holiness and sanctification. This is no accident! Do not be afraid! Easier said than done, I know! But work on trusting that God has designed it this way for the best of reasons.

You’ve been raised in a culture of death and therefore life is made to seem inconvenient and scary. And while it is true that it is hard work to be a parent, it’s not as doom and gloom as our society seems to suggest. You can still get to know your spouse as you parent together. The whole “put your spouse first” bit is quite misunderstood by many IMO. Here is an excerpt from an article I was reading recently:

"In Christian families, it has been said that the following priorities must be observed: First God, then spouse, then child. This statement contains a grain of truth but can easily lead to a great falsehood. We demonstrate our love for God precisely by loving our spouse, and that for our spouse by loving our child. We do not love God at the expense of our spouse, or our spouse at the expense of our child. Love is a boundless treasure that increases when it is given away; it is not a limited commodity that must be parsimoniously divided.

When family members are endowed with an intrinsic value that is based on their position in the family structure (as opposed to their essential personhood), or when attention or love are preferentially apportioned dogmatically on the basis of such position (as opposed to the needs of the person), familial charity falls short of its potential. Consequently, an organic community of persons fulfilling appropriate roles is replaced by a simplistic and artificial hierarchy of relative powers."

ezzo.info/Articles/neo_evangelizing2.htm

Thankyou!
I guess that’s the best thing about being Amish (I’m not about to convert though)
Thanks for the article, that was interesting (I didn’t know Maria Montessori was Catholic)

 

[SusanneT]

I’m not going to go into each number – I’m going to kind of address the whole thing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you are just a little scared and unsure because you don’t have a lot of experience with babies or boys for that matter. Given that, it’s normal to feel this way. Long ago, most people would have more experience with babies having lived in more of a community type of upbringing but today we are pretty isolated and live in a culture of death. Not a lot of babies around for many children growing up.

Try to keep in mind that babies are the product of love. Having not loved a man in that way, it’s hard to understand that fact. But this is the way that God created the order of things and we need not be afraid of his design. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son! Love gives life! Without the love, the life part seems more scary. It’s understandable to feel this way.

The entire process is a huge lesson in love and therefore God. It’s a huge lesson in humility, holiness and sanctification. This is no accident! Do not be afraid! Easier said than done, I know! But work on trusting that God has designed it this way for the best of reasons.

You’ve been raised in a culture of death and therefore life is made to seem inconvenient and scary. And while it is true that it is hard work to be a parent, it’s not as doom and gloom as our society seems to suggest. You can still get to know your spouse as you parent together. The whole “put your spouse first” bit is quite misunderstood by many IMO. Here is an excerpt from an article I was reading recently:

"In Christian families, it has been said that the following priorities must be observed: First God, then spouse, then child. This statement contains a grain of truth but can easily lead to a great falsehood. We demonstrate our love for God precisely by loving our spouse, and that for our spouse by loving our child. We do not love God at the expense of our spouse, or our spouse at the expense of our child. Love is a boundless treasure that increases when it is given away; it is not a limited commodity that must be parsimoniously divided.

When family members are endowed with an intrinsic value that is based on their position in the family structure (as opposed to their essential personhood), or when attention or love are preferentially apportioned dogmatically on the basis of such position (as opposed to the needs of the person), familial charity falls short of its potential. Consequently, an organic community of persons fulfilling appropriate roles is replaced by a simplistic and artificial hierarchy of relative powers."

ezzo.info/Articles/neo_evangelizing2.htm

Very beautifully put - and great advice.

 

[anon1234567]

All I can say is Be not Afraid!!!

We aren’t here on Earth to try to find what makes us happy, we need to seek His will, (but seeking His will does bring us happiness)! He loves us more than anyone can, His will is what is best for us!

That being said… don’t worry about what God has in store for you. So, you don’t get to travel the world before baby comes (that was one of the things I wanted to do), so what!? When we die it won’t matter whether we went to Egypt, China, Australia. You know what? I don’t care about many things I thought I wanted prior to getting married and having children; I love my kiddos and am thankful for the family God has sent us. God gives you graces to deal with your own children, don’t worry about not feeling excited about other people’s kids .

Pregnancy has changed my body, and has helped me with vanity , but I’m on my 6th round now, so it isn’t something that I can’t deal with .

I’m not sure if any of this is helpful to you, but I wanted to share my experience with you because I can understand where you are coming from. It can be hard to realize that life isn’t based on what we want to do, how we want to do it, but in seeking His will to do our best while we are here on Earth .

Thankyou! “When we die it won’t matter whether we went to Egypt, China, Australia.” I hadn’t really thought of it like that

1. The official english translation of Humanae Vitae does not say “grave reasons.” It says “well grounded reasons.” (Go look it up on the vatican website if you want). The Catechism says “just” reasons. While there are some people who will tell you that only life-or-death reasons are acceptable for postponing or avoiding pregnancy, that idea is simply nowhere to be found in the official church documents. The Catechism says that couples must make sure they are not motivated by selfishness. But of course, there are plenty of well grounded reasons for avoiding pregnancy that aren’t selfish.
   At the same time, it is probably wise to not be completely set on a certain number now, or even early in your marriage, because things can change. There are people who think they are going to stop at one or two kids, and find themselves open to 3 or 4. Similarly, there are people who believe they are going to have 6 or 8 kids, and then find that their finances and emotional energy are overtaxed by, say, 4 kids far more than they had imagined would be the case, and they choose to stop sooner than they had planned. There are other things to consider too–you don’t know your future financial situation, or future health situation. In my case, severe clinical post-partum depression did me in after two kids. There was no way to foresee this.

There is no competition between love for your spouse and love for your kids. It doesn’t need to be divided up among them. There is plenty of love to go around.

Labor is different for everyone. Some women have short labors, others have long ones. The drugs available are helpful. And unlike the “old days”, if your labor progresses too long, they will eventually put you out of your misery and do a c-section.

If you are prescribed birth control pills for a legitimate medical reason, you don’t need to abstain. The contraceptive effect is considered a side effect of the legitimate treatment of a medical condition.

Thankyou! It makes sense that it would be translation issue (such a relief)

 

[Corki]

About #5 I think its just that its (literally) a **big **change

Pregnancy** is **a big change. But in the scheme of things, physically it’s not nearly as big as puberty or menopause and psychologically, it’s somewhere in between going to college and getting married.

 

[anon1234567]

Pregnancy** is **a big change. But in the scheme of things, physically it’s not nearly as big as puberty or menopause and psychologically, it’s somewhere in between going to college and getting married.

Thankyou, that was nicely put

 

[moon1234]

You have to read that paragraph in light of Section I, first paragraph, which sets out the concept of the morally correct natural order of fecundity.

It must also be read in context with other Church documents such as Humanae Vitae:

(section 10)

A couple can decide at some point in time that it is prudent and responsible not to have another child or not to have another child right now for any just reason. There is no way a couple could foresee what just reasons they might face at some point in the future after the birth of “X” children. A morally just number of children, as used by Blessed Pope John Paul II is not a goal, but a minimum.

Hi Corki,

The reference to requiring a grave reason to put off having more children comes from Pope Pius XI encyclical Casti connubii:

*“On married couples, who make use of the specific act of their state, nature and the Creator impose the function of providing for the preservation of mankind. This is the characteristic service which gives rise to the peculiar value of their state, the bonum prolis. The individual and society, the people and the State, the Church itself, depend for their existence, in the order established by God, on fruitful marriages. Therefore, to embrace the matrimonial state, to use continually the faculty proper to such a state and lawful only therein, and, at the same time, to avoid its primary duty **without a grave reason, would be a sin against the very nature of married life.” ***

Pope Pius the XI then goes on to state when and how the sterile periods (when the woman is not ovulating), i.e. NFP, can be used:

“Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called ‘indications,’ may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such* grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circumstances**, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to the full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.” *

It is my personal opinion that many today use NFP with a contraceptive mentality and for selfish reasons such as reaching a set number of children, wanting more worldly things, etc. My opinion would be labeled old fashioned, etc., but I believe that it is specifically what Pope Pius XI was speaking about in his encyclical.

 

[Kelfa28]

It is my personal opinion that many today use NFP with a contraceptive mentality and for selfish reasons such as reaching a set number of children, wanting more worldly things, etc. My opinion would be labeled old fashioned, etc., but I believe that it is specifically what Pope Pius XI was speaking about in his encyclical.

It’s still an opinion.

Husband and wife should discern themselves whether they can/should have another child or not. That is between them and God.

I really think it’s setting a very dangerous precedent to imply another couple’s decision to postpone having a child as being “worldly.”

At the end of the day…serious reasons are different for every single couple. What may be serious for one couple isn’t so serious for another.

Let’s not head down the path of judgement when it comes to how couple’s discern the use of NFP and having another child.

What is considered “worldly” anyway. In all honesty, my opinion is if a couple is actually using NFP…they are open to life anyway and the possibility of having a child.

They seriously wouldn’t go through the “trouble” of NFP if they were only postponing a child because they want that new escalade…or mom doesn’t want to give up her evening glass of wine.
Of course, I’m being sarcastic and frivolous…but…there is nothing wrong with a mother only wanting a break from pregnancy and nursing and nothing else.

 

[Walking_Home]

Hi Corki,

The reference to requiring a grave reason to put off having more children comes from Pope Pius XI encyclical Casti connubii:

*“On married couples, who make use of the specific act of their state, nature and the Creator impose the function of providing for the preservation of mankind. This is the characteristic service which gives rise to the peculiar value of their state, the bonum prolis. The individual and society, the people and the State, the Church itself, depend for their existence, in the order established by God, on fruitful marriages. Therefore, to embrace the matrimonial state, to use continually the faculty proper to such a state and lawful only therein, and, at the same time, to avoid its primary duty **without a grave reason, would be a sin against the very nature of married life.” ***

Pope Pius the XI then goes on to state when and how the sterile periods (when the woman is not ovulating), i.e. NFP, can be used:

“Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called ‘indications,’ may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such** grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circumstances**, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to the full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.”

**It is my personal opinion **that many today use NFP with a contraceptive mentality and for selfish reasons such as reaching a set number of children, wanting more worldly things, etc. My opinion would be labeled old fashioned, etc., but I believe that it is specifically what Pope Pius XI was speaking about in his encyclical.

---

Well – it is a good thing – you qualified – that your views are “your personal opinion”. No one should go around – and apply negative motives – to a couple(s) use of NFP.

 

[moon1234]

It’s still an opinion.

Husband and wife should discern themselves whether they can/should have another child or not. That is between them and God.

I really think it’s setting a very dangerous precedent to imply another couple’s decision to postpone having a child as being “worldly.”

At the end of the day…serious reasons are different for every single couple. What may be serious for one couple isn’t so serious for another.

Let’s not head down the path of judgement when it comes to how couple’s discern the use of NFP and having another child.

What is considered “worldly” anyway. In all honesty, my opinion is if a couple is actually using NFP…they are open to life anyway and the possibility of having a child.

They seriously wouldn’t go through the “trouble” of NFP if they were only postponing a child because they want that new escalade…or mom doesn’t want to give up her evening glass of wine.
Of course, I’m being sarcastic and frivolous…but…there is nothing wrong with a mother only wanting a break from pregnancy and nursing and nothing else.

Actually the Church says that deciding for yourself requires a well formed conscience. This does not mean that you are an adult who can think, but that you fully understand all of the Church rules and ramifications of your decision. I would venture that MOST people are not well versed in the theology and should consult a Priest and request guidance as welcoming children openly is right in the vows that you take when you get married.

I really think it’s setting a very dangerous precedent to imply another couple’s decision to postpone having a child as being “worldly.”

In many cases there is nothing implied. The couple is OPEN about not wanting more children because they “are done”. If a couple states no reason, I give the benefit of the doubt. If they openly state they just want two children because that is their choice, when then they open themselves to criticism from those who think that is a selfish decision. The OP asked about limited the family size because of a personal choice, not because of a serious reason.

You will also find that the “time off” for mom that she desires causes a great deal of mental anguish for a husband. If a decision is mutual and periodic then it is virtous, but many times it is not mutual and the husbands have told me they are “cut off.” To me that means the wife has made a unilateral decision and is not being open to life no fulfilling her marriage vow.

When Catholics openly announce they are DONE and using NFP to avoid future children and will only accept an oops child, does that sound like being OPEN to life? Can we read peoples minds? No, but many open their mouths and announce their intentions. If they announce that they want to continue having sex for the pleasure, but divorce as much as possible the chance of having another child because they “are done”, want a car, etc. Then what do you call that? Fine and dandy?

It is why you have factions in the Church that do not agree on NFP. Some put forth that NFP should be used to conceive and only to avoid if there is a grave reason. Grave reason being different for each couple and hopefully discerned through a well formed conscience. The other faction says use NFP whenever you want for whatever reason you want. It is natural and so it is allowed. The second reasoning is why so many non-Catholics look at NFP and say “It is just Catholic birth control”. The desired outcome is the same.

 

[moon1234]

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Well – it is a good thing – you qualified – that your views are “your personal opinion”. No one should go around – and apply negative motives – to a couple(s) use of NFP.

I personally have no problem applying negative motives when couples announce said negative motives to their friends/acquaintances. There in lies the problem.

Can anyone think of a time/situation when the use of NFP would be sinful? Should it be avoided ever?

 

[Walking_Home]

I personally have no problem applying negative motives when couples announce said negative motives to their friends/acquaintances. There in lies the problem.

Can anyone think of a time/situation when the use of NFP would be sinful? Should it be avoided ever?

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The Church leaves the decision/use of NFP – to the couple alone – without interference from anyone else. Therefore – no one should should be – “thinking up” situations – to try and paint a couples use of NFP as sinful.