D
dingodile
Guest
Exactly what is an unrepentent atheist? Is it just any atheist or is it an atheist who believes he shouldn’t be an atheist but continues to be one anyway?
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T
thistle
Guest
A person who dies unrepentent denying God exists.Exactly what is an unrepentent atheist? Is it just any atheist or is it an atheist who believes he shouldn’t be an atheist but continues to be one anyway?
D
dingodile
Guest
Is there such a thing as a repentent atheist? Or is that the same as an ex-atheist? I’m trying to understand whether you think unrepentent atheists are a special subset of atheists.A person who dies unrepentent denying God exists.
F
fakename
Guest
no unrepentant atheist gets saved per unrepentant atheist. But is it possible for a person who is sincere to be enlightened before death by either natural or supernatural means -that is, could God enlighten an atheist before death allowing him to make a choice? Couldn’t providence send someone to convince him before his death?We can discuss this till pigs fly but that won’t change my opinion.
Anyone who consciously and deliberately rejects Christ and his Church is not invincibly ignorant.
Otherwise unrepentent atheists could be saved under your concept of invincible ignorance.
Serious question because it seems that anyone who is invincibly ignorant becomes knowledgeable by some means before his death, or otherwise his baptism by desire can’t be complete.
T
thistle
Guest
Yes. Everyone has a chance to be saved until their dying day, whether its an atheist who has denied God or a Catholic in a state of mortal sin.no unrepentant atheist gets saved per unrepentant atheist. But is it possible for a person who is sincere to be enlightened before death by either natural or supernatural means -that is, could God enlighten an atheist before death allowing him to make a choice? Couldn’t providence send someone to convince him before his death?
Serious question because it seems that anyone who is invincibly ignorant becomes knowledgeable by some means before his death, or otherwise his baptism by desire can’t be complete.
That does not make an atheist invincibly ignorant prior to such a event.
T
thistle
Guest
Are you trying to be funny??Is there such a thing as a repentent atheist? Or is that the same as an ex-atheist? I’m trying to understand whether you think unrepentent atheists are a special subset of atheists.
An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. An atheist, for example, who saw the light and became a Catholic is a repentent atheist.
F
fakename
Guest
I never said that it did.Yes. Everyone has a chance to be saved until their dying day, whether its an atheist who has denied God or a Catholic in a state of mortal sin.
That does not make an atheist invincibly ignorant prior to such a event.
But I did say, that if someone is invincibly ignorant, then God would provide for him. Not that If a person is helped by God, then he must be invincibly ignorant.
T
thistle
Guest
No problems with that.I never said that it did.
But I did say, that if someone is invincibly ignorant, then God would provide for him. Not that If a person is helped by God, then he must be invincibly ignorant.
B
Blossoming
Guest
Quite right. And it’s in the CCC that way and certainly the way I was taught.To be able to consciously and deliberately reject Christ, one must be in a position to consciously and deliberately accept Christ. There are, however, many barriers to acceptance for which individuals are not responsible. Some of them are social and psychological, but that makes them no less real. If one learns of Christ in a manner that is filtered through layer after layer of scorn, cynicism, and distrust, one’s deliberations may well be distorted in ways that one doesn’t even realize, much less control.
It’s one thing for a person to reject Christ because he can’t face the demands that following Christ would place upon him. It’s quite another for a person to reject Christ because everyone he knows, respects, and trusts rejects Christ, and for him even to be seen to consider following Christ would be seen as an act of betrayal.
It seems to me that the baptism (implicit) of desire is a yearning in the heart for the kind of truth that Christ claimed to offer, even if the person who has it doesn’t recognize it for what it is. If that’s so, then God alone knows what’s in the hearts of people and all generalizations from mortals about who is damned are presumptuous.
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