Questions on Sunday's Gospel reading

[chaunceygardner]

Filled with the Holy Spirit, Jesus returned from the Jordan
and was led by the Spirit into the desert for forty days.

When I hear and read this and the rest of the passage from Luke 4 used in the Gospel reading for Sunday, Feb. 21, I am puzzled about it. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are truly one with God the Father, then how could Jesus be “filled with the Holy Spirit”, as that would be saying that Jesus was filled with Himself? And how could God be led by God into the desert? And why did Jesus even need to go there, if he was God?

In the second temptation, Satan says to Jesus:

All this will be yours, if you worship me

How could God worship Satan? How could Satan “give” anything to God? How could Satan expect Jesus to do any of this if Satan knew Jesus was God?

Jesus responds by quoting the first commandment:

You shall worship the Lord, your God,and him alone shall you serve.”

How can God worship God? How can God serve God? Wouldn’t that be like Jesus worshipping and serving Himself?

I understand this gets into the theology of the Trinity, but there is more here than that. There is what Satan is saying about Jesus, and what Jesus is saying about himself and his relationship to God the Father and, most importantly, what Luke is telling us about all this. And none of it seems to be in synch with the idea of Jesus as God (at least not at that moment of his time on earth).

 

[crazzeto]

Well for starts, Jesus has two complete natures. Fully human, and fully divine.

 

[Fidelis]

As Crazzeto pointed out:

Well for starts, Jesus has two complete natures. Fully human, and fully divine.

This is actually the key. As God, Jesus was complete: there wasn’t anything that he was strictly obligated to do because he wasn’t lacking anything. As fully man, however, he chose to undergo everything men go through so he could fully identify with those that he came to redeem. Think about it; the Savior could have come into the world a full grown man ready to climb on the Cross without going through being born, growing up, working, etc, etc. But as Hebrews 4:15 says:

We have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

When I hear and read this and the rest of the passage from Luke 4 used in the Gospel reading for Sunday, Feb. 21, I am puzzled about it. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are truly one with God the Father, then how could Jesus be “filled with the Holy Spirit”, as that would be saying that Jesus was filled with Himself?

When Jesus did things in his Divinity (like his miracles, his ability to forgive sins and his Resurrection) he was exercising his perogative as God. However, to fulfill the part of his mission that required him to exercise his *human *nature, that part of his nature was given the power of the Holy Spirit at his baptism. Again, this more closely identifies him with us who are also given the gift of the Holy Spirit at our baptism.

And how could God be led by God into the desert? And why did Jesus even need to go there, if he was God?

Again, he needed to go there because his human nature needed to be tested, the same way all who possess a human nature are tested in this world.

In the second temptation, Satan says to Jesus:

**All this will be yours, if you worship me **

How could God worship Satan? How could Satan “give” anything to God? How could Satan expect Jesus to do any of this if Satan knew Jesus was God?

God could not worship Satan, but man could. Jesus would not, of course, but he was subjected to the test to identify with us and also to give us an example.

Jesus responds by quoting the first commandment:

**You shall worship the Lord, your God,and him alone shall you serve.” **

How can God worship God? How can God serve God? Wouldn’t that be like Jesus worshipping and serving Himself?

Again, Jesus is speaking from the standpoint of his human nature (nd giving us an example of how to respond to testing of this type). In fact, it isn’t entirely certain that Satan knew for sure who or what Jesus was. Thus the testing. It’s my opinion that he didn’t know since, as Bishop Fulton Sheen points out, Satan started out by trying to tempt Jesus to do something only God could do; unsucessful at that he tried to appeal to baser and baser human instincts as he must have concluded Jesus was only a human, though exceptionally godly, person.

I understand this gets into the theology of the Trinity, but there is more here than that. There is what Satan is saying about Jesus, and what Jesus is saying about himself and his relationship to God the Father and, most importantly, what Luke is telling us about all this. And none of it seems to be in synch with the idea of Jesus as God (at least not at that moment of his time on earth).

Hopefully this has helped clarify things for you a bit.

 

[surritter]

Recall that in the Gospels, Jesus conversed with the Father. And remember the time when the Father said “this is my Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

So even though the Persons of the Trinity are one, they can apparently interact with each other.

 

[piejesu]

I think Crazzeto made a good connection with his statement. Where else in the gospels do we HUMANS receive a better blueprint for dealing with temptation?

It would be ludicrous to think that Christ was tempted in any other way than through His human nature.

Remember that Satan is not omniscient. It would be in no way a mistake to ponder exactly how much the devil understood of the incarnation. When it came to the Crucifixion and the resultant Resurrection, he was obviously clueless, or else he wouldn’t have facilitated it so precisely by entering into the heart of Judas.

 

[rocketrob]

I think the key to the answer is in the prior post (#2). Jesus’ mission as the Incarnate Word of God was to re-elevate (or sanctify) the human nature to the state originally intended prior to the Fall in the Garden. In the events of Luke 4, Jesus stands up to the temptations to which Adam & Eve originally succumbed. As He did with Peter after Peter’s initial denial, Jesus is reaffirming and sanctifying the human nature that we all possess as created beings. Meanwhile, He provides the perfect example of how to resist temptation by quoting and reflecting directly from Scripture. The manner in which He quotes Scripture serves as a timeless example for us all…quotes showing how we should conduct ourselves when faced with difficulties in life.

Interestingly enough, Jesus is the One full Incarnate Word of God. He is therefore quoting Himself when responding to temptation. We remain safe when we are fully in and conformed to Him.

rocketrob

 

[chaunceygardner]

Surritter:

So even though the Persons of the Trinity are one, they can apparently interact with each other

That is difficult enough to consider, but how do we know which “nature” of Jesus we are hearing or seeing? Are they not both there together? It seems like in the passage from Luke 4 the divine nature of Jesus does not exist yet or is subordinated to the human one. The similar passage in Matthew has Angels ministering to Jesus following the temptations; I could see that happening to a human Jesus, but not to a divine one, who would have no need for such attention. And if one nature of Jesus was divine at that moment, he could minister to himself.

Surritter:

Recall that in the Gospels, Jesus conversed with the Father. And remember the time when the Father said “this is my Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

At those times, as in the passages in question, Jesus certainly appears to be subordinate to God, the Father. Is that because of the thinking of the evangelists who wrote the Gospels, or did Jesus himself not understand his true nature until later?

Rocketrob:

Interestingly enough, Jesus is the One full Incarnate Word of God. He is therefore quoting Himself when responding to temptation.

That is my problem; God, in the person of Jesus, is quoting the Word of God, who is also Jesus. But does that make sense from what both Luke and Matthew tell us? They make it sound like Jesus is quoting someone else (God or an author of scripture, not really stated which), which makes more sense.

 

[surritter]

That is difficult enough to consider, but how do we know which “nature” of Jesus we are hearing or seeing? Are they not both there together? It seems like in the passage from Luke 4 the divine nature of Jesus does not exist yet or is subordinated to the human one.

I would say that the two natures of Jesus were together at every instant from the Annunciation on. So when I stated earlier that the Persons of the Trinity can interact with each other, I don’t know if it’s quite right to say that Jesus’s human nature could converse with His divine nature; he wasn’t schizophrenic.

I just meant that the three Persons are indeed persons, so we shouldn’t be surprised that they can talk to each other as normal people do. Yet they are of one substance, which is not true of normal people. But when you asked how the Spirit can lead Jesus, I think it is not too hard to accept.

The deeper part of your questions actually get into the mystery of the Trinity, which nobody can really grasp!

 

[rocketrob]

That is my problem; God, in the person of Jesus, is quoting the Word of God, who is also Jesus. But does that make sense from what both Luke and Matthew tell us? They make it sound like Jesus is quoting someone else (God or an author of scripture, not really stated which), which makes more sense.

I think you might be over thinking this particular part of your questions. Literally, Jesus is quoting from the body of Scripture that existed at the time: Deut 8:3, 6:13, and 6:16. Jesus does this throughout the recorded Gospels; His quoting of Scripture is not unique to this particular event.

I didn’t mean to cloud the issue.

rocketrob