Questions on the Papacy

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I’ve been considering becoming a Catholic, so I’ve been looking into the papacy, and I watched this debate with James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa on the papacy… It should be easy enough to find on youtube.

No offence here, but I think White really did him in. There’s just 2 questions I would like an answer to.
  1. If Peter really is the head of the apostles in Matthew 16, then why in Matthew 18 do the disciples argue about who’s the greatest? Shouldn’t it be obvious to them?
  2. Please forgive me, as I do not know a lot about the early church, but White says that Vatican 1 says that the church has ALWAYS understood that Matthew 16 refers to Peter as the rock, when some clearly didn’t. What is the explanation for this?
 
  1. Being the head does not necessarily make one the greatest. Didn’t Jesus preach on ‘the first shall be last", etc? Being in charge of a group of 12 who are following one man (Jesus) as HIS apostles doesn’t necessarily insure that Peter has the greatest faith. He might just have, according to the apostles’ own view, the greatest leadership abilities, but not perhaps the best intellect or the warmest heart or the deepest philanthropic skills. “Yeah Peter you’re in charge HERE but I’m going to be the greatest because I love Jesus better. . .because I don’t have to spend my time bossing the other guys around and having all those responsibilities so I can spend more time listening to Him”. . .etc.
Who are the 'some clearly didn’t?"
The Church is the Church. “some people” is simply ‘some people.’ People have free will. People in the Church can reject truth and it doesn’t mean the CHURCH rejects the truth. Things don’t stop being true if a few people stop believing them as true.
 
This is just my personal opinion, thoughts so don’t put too much weight into them. Nor have I watched the video as I don’t have enough data.
  1. The revelation that Peter was given had just happened and I’m not sure the apostles understood it in its entirety. The Holy Spirit had not yet descended upon them so they didn’t have all truth and conviction at that time. It is also possible that they were wanting Jesus to further explain/confirm Peters’ role by asking who was greatest.
  2. Not every Church Father or New Testament figure has to be 100% in agreement with every doctrine. There was a lot to be hammered out over the centuries. This can be seen in the first council of Jerusalem where they argued about converting Gentiles. We also see Tertulian(not sure on spelling) who was on his way to being a Church Father, fall into heresy. The point is that the Holy Spirit doesn’t let the Church fall into error as Jesus promised (ie no false doctrine is ever declared ex cathedra)
 
Autocur said:
I’ve been considering becoming a Catholic, so I’ve been looking into the papacy, and I watched this debate with James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa on the papacy… It should be easy enough to find on youtube.

No offence here, but I think White really did him in.
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Truth is never beaten. Mr. White may have won a debate in the eye of the beholder. But God is the true Judge.

1 Corinthians 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
There’s just 2 questions I would like an answer to.
  1. If Peter really is the head of the apostles in Matthew 16, then why in Matthew 18 do the disciples argue about who’s the greatest? Shouldn’t it be obvious to them?
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Lots of things should have been obvious to them, but weren’t.

Matthew 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
  1. Please forgive me, as I do not know a lot about the early church, but White says that Vatican 1 says that the church has ALWAYS understood that Matthew 16 refers to Peter as the rock, when some clearly didn’t.
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Who didn’t?
What is the explanation for this?
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Mr. White doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
 
Autocur said:
If Peter really is the head of the apostles in Matthew 16, then why in Matthew 18 do the disciples argue about who’s the greatest?
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I would add to what others have said that this is just one verse. How about John 21:15-17 where Peter is asked about feeding sheep and lambs? not one or the other but both. How about Matt 10:2 where Peter is described as the first Apostle? How about Acts 1-2, 10-11 where Peter is the leader of the Church in Jerusalem? How about the early Church fathers who always referred to Peter as the ‘rock’? and lastly what about 1500 years of Church tradition, which was respected until Luther came along?
 
Here are a few of things to think about. 1)Jesus said upon this rock I will build my church. 2)When Jesus was asked to pay the temple tax when He had no money He sent somebody to catch a fish and in it’s mouth were coins enough to pay two temple taxes. He paid for Himself and Peter not the other apostles. 3)When Peter and John ran to the tomb John arrived first but he deferred to Peter to witness the empty tomb.

I think the argument about who was greatest was really about being first in another manner.
 
To be fair, the Eastern church doesn’t recognize the Pope either.
 
To be fair, they never denied the primacy of Peter, their issue starts with 11th century Popes.
 
They recognize the pope as having a certain primacy of honor and place, but they do not ascribe to him the authority that we do.
 
Peace to you.
Autocur said:
I’ve been considering becoming a Catholic
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Just do it.
Autocur said:
, so I’ve been looking into the papacy, and I watched this debate with James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa on the papacy… It should be easy enough to find on youtube.

No offence here, but I think White really did him in.
Click to expand...
The question is whether the Catholic Church today is the Church in the New Testament. An unbiased (Nonchristian, let’s say) cursory reading of history indicates as much, without serious dispute. If it weren’t for all the other Christians claiming otherwise there would be no issue about where Jesus’s own Church went, that He Himself built, incidentally, on St. Peter, as in, on the office that St. Peter held, as George Washington was the first to hold the office of president of the United States, and Donald Trump is Washington’s successor, so also similarly Pope Francis is St. Peter’s successor as well, and it is this office, this pastorate, upon which Jesus built His Church, and that Church is the Catholic Church, right now.
Autocur said:
There’s just 2 questions I would like an answer to.
  1. If Peter really is the head of the apostles in Matthew 16, then why in Matthew 18 do the disciples argue about who’s the greatest? Shouldn’t it be obvious to them?
Click to expand...
Cursory reading of the Gospels and Acts shows Peter as the prince of the Apostles. He has flaws, and he is challenged openly, so we know that all popes have a margin of error also.
Autocur said:
  1. Please forgive me, as I do not know a lot about the early church, but White says that Vatican 1 says that the church has ALWAYS understood that Matthew 16 refers to Peter as the rock, when some clearly didn’t. What is the explanation for this?
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There is only one authorized teaching on the matter, and that one authorized teaching is that Peter is the rock, and also that Peter’s Trinitarian confession of Jesus as the Son of God is also the rock, upon which Jesus built the Catholic Church.
 
Autocur said:
To be fair, the Eastern church doesn’t recognize the Pope either.
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They used to.

Edit: Correction. They still do. There are Eastern Catholics, loyal to the Pope, living side by side with the Orthodox.
 
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Autocur said:
James White and Fr. Mitch Pacwa
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Can you provide a link?

There are a lot of debates between the two individuals when I did a search. I want to watch the one you watched so that I can respond better.
 
James White? Who appointed him? If the entire world knows that Francis is Pope and Saint Peter has the keys to the Kingdom of heaven, why does Mr. White not know this?

Read John 21. “Feed my sheep” “Tend my lambs” “Feed my sheep”

Those are Christ’s commands to a shepherd.
 
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