Questions Protestants Can't Answer

[Rjmusseau]

I will go where ever he leads me…be it in the catholic church…the protestant church…the evangelico church…where ever it may be. I don’t believe man’s search for him is over yet…its just the beginning. He is the lamp onto my feet…there is still alot of darkness
out there…and a lamp will sure come in handy.

God bless

 

[sonettegarbin]

Many non Catholic Christian denominations stress that both the saved and the lost were “elected” *before *the foundation of the world, and quote as follows;-

When did God choose us?

A. From the beginning – Acts 15:18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.”

1. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
2. Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Why did He choose us?

1 Peter 1:2(b)… elect according to the foreknowledge (gk.-prognosis) of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Can protestants answer the following questions in the light of the abovementioned quote:

(a) Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer for the sins of the whole world?
(b) How to be sure to be one of the ‘elect’ before birth and not one of the condemned, destined to eternal damnation?
(c) What about the ‘elect’s’ sin - Automatically forgiven because of 1 Peter 1:2(b) - automatic santification?
(d) Why seek to convert to Christianity?

 

[Rjmusseau]

Can protestants answer the following questions in the light of the abovementioned quote:

(a) Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer for the sins of the whole world?

Redemption!

(b) How to be sure to be one of the ‘elect’ before birth and not one of the condemned, destined to eternal damnation?

Faith!

(c) What about the ‘elect’s’ sin - Automatically forgiven because of 1 Peter 1:2(b) - automatic santification?

Repent for the forgiveness of sin!

(d) Why seek to convert to Christianity?

It’s not a conversion…its a calling.

How did I do?

God bless…

 

[Abeyta85]

Can protestants answer the following questions in the light of the abovementioned quote:

(a) Why was it necessary for Christ to suffer for the sins of the whole world?

Redemption!

(b) How to be sure to be one of the ‘elect’ before birth and not one of the condemned, destined to eternal damnation?

Faith!

(c) What about the ‘elect’s’ sin - Automatically forgiven because of 1 Peter 1:2(b) - automatic santification?

Repent for the forgiveness of sin!

(d) Why seek to convert to Christianity?

It’s not a conversion…its a calling.

How did I do?

God bless…

Good with room to improve.

“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

if we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

 

[joezftworth]

Alot of you guys are splitting hairs and not even “quoting context”. The difference between real faith and “dead faith” is that there is no such thing as dead faith. If your faith is not substantiated by the Holy Spirit, and obviously evident in works, you have no faith. It is merely transitory or situational belief.

Big difference.

I was raised and came from the Catholic Church. My beloved mother died a Catholic. My older sister is Catholic. There is way too much reliance on the organization and supposed “anointing” of the corporate church. Our Lord’s church is the believers, not the figureheads or caretakers of doctrine written by men and not Biblical in tenor or structure.

I am not attacking anyone personally. I think most Catholics need to spend alot of time in the book of Galatians. It would lighten your spirit and set you free. The reference to the works doctrine and Judasizers is relevant to most Catholic teachings. Worship our Lord Jesus, work out your salvation with trembling, do not rely on tenants of procedural worship and "stair stepping sacramental obligations " for assurance of right standing with Jesus Christ.

Quit confessing to a man, and confess to Jesus. Stop honoring a pontiff appointed by men and claiming the “vicar” role.He cannot “bless you” supernaturally. The pope is a sinner, plain and simple. He needs Christ like everyone of us. “No not one is holy, all have fallen and come short of the Glory of God” Romans. Paul or Peter were not vicars and dealt with their sin through the Holy Spirit with repentance as a “change of heart and actions”, not a murmuring of repetitive chants to Mary. Mary was the chosen mother of our Lord. The most special of all women. But a woman, flesh and blood, stained by sin, needing a savior. She cannot answer your prayers. Why pray to Mary when Hebrews states that “we can boldly come to the throne of the most Holy” and speak with God almighty himself. Please, please focus on Jesus.

The works of the Catholic Church are phenomenal. No one stands for the unborn like Catholics. Father Frank Pavone moved to my local town with his ministry (Amarillo, TX) and is an outstanding example of standing for “the least of these” with tenacity and the kindest compassion I have ever seen in a human being. Your ministry for the poor is a model for society. Your hearts are amazing! Your generosity is unparalleled. Self sacrificing, loving and long suffering for the poor and the disenfranchised. I love you guys so much and wish I could be more like many of you. Let’s bridge the gap, pass on the ritualism, worship Jesus and stand shoulder to shoulder till He returns in the eastern sky. With much love and humility. The basis for my conscious and awareness to all things Holy, started in the Catholic Church. Starting a deep study in Romans, God led me to basic understanding of my salvation. When I am tugged by human doctrine or religion, I return to Galatians. God loves us so much. My biggest fear is that some Catholics have so clouded the salvation provided by the death of Christ on the cross that there are the lost, stumbling through perceived obligations, and then “feel” whole and sanctified by said rosaries or other “works” and think it is done.
“Salvation is a free gift, so that none would boast”.

I believe that works illustrate the “fruit” of salvation. I believe that works are in no way obligatory but a deep, realized appreciation and adoration for our Lord that compels us to serve Him in anyway He directs. I am so afraid I have offended someone with this message. I would never do that. I am not “judging”, if I have been harsh, I sincerely apologize. I just want to express somehow the love I have found in the scriptures and what it has done to change my life. God bless you all and thank you for the opportunity to post on this website.

Pastor Joe

 

[InspiritCarol]

Alot of you guys are splitting hairs and not even “quoting context”. The difference between real faith and “dead faith” is that there is no such thing as dead faith. If your faith is not substantiated by the Holy Spirit, and obviously evident in works, you have no faith. It is merely transitory or situational belief.

Big difference.

Yes. Thank you very much. It seems silly to me when people go out of their way to find grounds for discord.
I can’t speak to what you were raised in but I must say you miss the mark when you say the Catholic church is

not Biblical in tenor or structure

. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I think most Catholics need to spend alot of time in the book of Galatians. It would lighten your spirit and set you free.

Ah. Don’t all the books of the Bible on some level? I prefer “Romans” myself, oh and 1Cor.

The reference to the works doctrine and Judasizers is relevant to most Catholic teachings. Worship our Lord Jesus, work out your salvation with trembling, do not rely on tenants of procedural worship and "stair stepping sacramental obligations " for assurance of right standing with Jesus Christ.

This can be grouped with the admonition against repeating empty prayers. The key is to have God at the core of all these things. When I say a “Hail Mary” I think about God.

Quit confessing to a man, and confess to Jesus.

We do confess to Jesus (how were you Catechized?). But saying it to a priest, not only forces us to confront our sin on a material level, it makes it concrete. Additionally, we have the benefit of potentially garnering some wisdom and guidance from the priest who should even provide some Spirit-inspired resolution.

Stop honoring a pontiff appointed by men and claiming the “vicar” role.

Appointed by praying men who ask for intercession of the Holy Spirit. Prayer counts and the Holy Spirit can come in when the door is opened.

The pope … needs Christ like everyone of us.
Yep. Have you the slightest clue about how much the pontiff dwells on this fact? Try reading some of their writings?

“No not one is holy, all have fallen and come short of the Glory of God” Romans. Paul or Peter were not vicars and dealt with their sin through the Holy Spirit with repentance as a “change of heart and actions”, not a murmuring of repetitive chants to Mary. Mary was the chosen mother of our Lord. The most special of all women. But a woman, flesh and blood, stained by sin, needing a savior. She cannot answer your prayers. Why pray to Mary when Hebrews states that “we can boldly come to the throne of the most Holy” and speak with God almighty himself. Please, please focus on Jesus.

See above. Stop assuming what I am thinking. Please, please, please stop calling yourself a former Catholic like you know ANYTHING about true Catholicism. “Pray” just means “ask”; in the case of “praying” to saints and Mary. We’re only asking them to intercede with God on our behalf. This IS a prayer to God and they may only hear them through His divine will. Do you think that people just go away when they die? Do you think God in human form did not follow the 10 commandments and “Honor His Mother”? Don’t you ask other people to pray for you?

Let’s bridge the gap, pass on the ritualism,

Why do you think Jesus used clay to heal one blind man and pure faith to heal another. Was there anything special or magic about that clay? Did Jesus NEED it? No, Jesus did not, but sometimes we do. Some of us need to do our repetitive curls and say our loving acknowledgement of God over and over with the same words… but so deeply different in meaning every single time. This is the grace and communion we find with Him through the words Jesus himself gave us: “Our Father who art in Heaven…”

My biggest fear is that some Catholics have so clouded the salvation provided by the death of Christ on the cross that there are the lost, stumbling through perceived obligations, and then “feel” whole and sanctified by said rosaries or other “works” and think it is done.

Understand that this misdirection you “fear” is not a result of the icons and ashes, but through the frailty of the individual and may be said the same for ANY Christian that takes their eye away from the Lord.

“Salvation is a free gift, so that none would boast”.

Amen, Brother.

I believe that works illustrate the “fruit” of salvation. I believe that works are in no way obligatory but a deep, realized appreciation and adoration for our Lord that compels us to serve Him in anyway He directs.

Sounds good, but isn’t fruit a result of work? – Just saying…

I am so afraid I have offended someone with this message. I would never do that. I am not “judging”, if I have been harsh, I sincerely apologize. I just want to express somehow the love I have found in the scriptures and what it has done to change my life. God bless you all and thank you for the opportunity to post on this website.

Pastor Joe

No offence taken by me. You’re just speaking your heart. That’s wonderful. Same for me. Please don’t be offended Pastor Joe.
And for what it’s worth, as an apologetics argument, this video seemed rambly and silly. It gets a BIG eye-roll from me. (No offence on that one either).

 

[mackbrislawn]

Alot of you guys are splitting hairs and not even “quoting context”. The difference between real faith and “dead faith” is that there is no such thing as dead faith. If your faith is not substantiated by the Holy Spirit, and obviously evident in works, you have no faith. It is merely transitory or situational belief.

Big difference.

“Transitory or situational belief.”

Could you amplify some more on what these terms mean?

Are they similar to what John Calvin referred to as “evanescent faith”?

And how does a person know whether he has real faith or transitory faith?

 

[CastingCrown]

Thank you for affirming the common ground Catholics share with non-Catholics and thank you for the praise you give to certain aspects of the Church. However, apart from the opening sentence or two, this post was way off topic and more of a list of the faults of Catholicism.

First, the bit that was on-topic:

Alot of you guys are splitting hairs and not even “quoting context”. The difference between real faith and “dead faith” is that there is no such thing as dead faith.

…so for James’ comparison to hold, there’s no such thing as a dead body? Coroners are apparently no longer needed…

There is way too much reliance on the organization and supposed “anointing” of the corporate church. Our Lord’s church is the believers, not the figureheads or caretakers of doctrine written by men and not Biblical in tenor or structure.

…in your opinion. After Jesus ascended, if you wanted to know the truth you went to one of the “figureheads” who were called Apostles.

I think most Catholics need to spend alot of time in the book of Galatians. It would lighten your spirit and set you free

This, of course, assumes that Catholics are heavily burdened…

do not rely on tenants of procedural worship

…or as we’d call it, ancient worship of the Church instituted by Christ.

Quit confessing to a man, and confess to Jesus

…and try and forget that bit in the Bible where Jesus gave authority to men to forgive sins.

Stop honoring a pontiff appointed by men and claiming the “vicar” role

…because church authority (Heb 13:17) and representing Christ (2 Cor 5:20) are unbiblical concepts?

He cannot “bless you” supernaturally

The idea of a mere human blessing someone supernaturally is too far fetched? (Acts 5:15)

The pope is a sinner, plain and simple. He needs Christ like everyone of us.

…which is probably why the Pope goes to confession weekly…

Paul or Peter were not vicars

So when Paul said that we’re ambassadors for Christ he didn’t really mean it? For what is an ambassador but one who stands in place for another?

Mary was the chosen mother of our Lord. The most special of all women. But a woman, flesh and blood, stained by sin, needing a savior.

Indeed Christ is her saviour. She declared it herself and Catholic theology says no different. However, if you fall into a pit I can “save” you buy pulling you out or I can “save” you by making sure you never fall in…

She cannot answer your prayers

What are the Saints in heaven doing all day if not imitating Christ? If he lives to make intercession for us, how could they not do likewise? Indeed, the book of Revelation shows them offering the prayers of the saints on earth to God.

Why pray to Mary when Hebrews states that “we can boldly come to the throne of the most Holy” and speak with God almighty himself.

Why would you ever ask someone else in your church to pray for you? You can come before the thrown of the most Holy! But of course you do ask other people to pray for you. The simple answer is that we are part of a family and part of a Body. That body prays for its members, both those alive on earth and those more fully alive in heaven.

Please, please focus on Jesus.

Please, please focus on Michelangelo and stop praising his beautiful creations - you’re taking the glory away from the artist by marvelling at his art.

Let’s bridge the gap, pass on the ritualism

You see to be under the false impression that ritualism is bad. God established ritual in the Old Covenant for a good reason. Also, Jesus Himself established rituals in the New Covenant - what else would you call Baptism and the Eucharist? Ritual is not bad. Mindless ritual, however, is.

I went to a Protestant Church for several years and they prided themselves on being “open to the Spirit” and “free in worship”, but it was just as predictable as a Catholic Mass. All they did was swap ancient, profound ritual for a pale imitation (this is not a wholesale rejection of other styles of worship, just making the point that I have yet to go to a church of any denomination that doesn’t have ritual).

I believe that works are in no way obligatory

“I am the Vine, you are the branches…if you do not produce fruit you will be cut off and thrown on the fire”

Sounds pretty obligatory to me.

 

[sonettegarbin]

Thank you for these very interesting posts - I would say that;

I John 2:9
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
Douay Rheims (Catholic) 1899

constitutes dead faith. No interpretation fallible or infallible needed? Please feel free to help me if I’m wrong.

 

[Rjmusseau]

There is such a thing as dead faith…scripture speaks about it in james 2:17 and james 2:26.

God bless

 

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