Questions regarding salvation

[deepsouthpapist]

My questions revolve around Salvation and who has access to it.

Based on my limited knowledge, the Catholic Church has stated that “There is no Salvation outside the Church”. Okay, got it.

In addition, I think the magisterium has stated the Salvation is a gift to all of man kind through Christ’s atonement on the cross for all those that earnestly seek it. Fair enough.

So my first question - Why be Catholic? far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day. Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes? Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation? I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough? Why or why not? Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved? No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

In case you haven’t gotten it through the above questions, I am struggling here. My faith has been stretched and tested lately and I am earnestly seeking answers. So please prayerfully respond.

Thank you much and may God bless all of you!

 

[jpusateri]

So my first question - Why be Catholic? far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day. Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes? Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

Well, because the Catholic Church is the Church you refer to in “There is no Salvation outside the Church.”

If Jesus had it tough, why would you think that we have a choice between easy and hard? Do you want Salvation-lite? Protestants certainly have a piece of the truth, no doubt at all. But that piece is contained in its entirety in the Catholic Church!

Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation? I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough? Why or why not? Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

Jesus exhorted us to trust in the Lord. Trust means not just believing, but believing so strongly that you KNOW it’s true. We also have the evidence of the saints who have lived holy lives and have left relics and other miraculous artifacts behind to help our faith. Not to mention the Pope and the magisterium to guide us and help reassure us.

Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved? No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

This phrase is misused to mean many things. My understanding is that without the Church, no one could be saved. So that without the Church there is no salvation. In addition, those who have faith through the church (because she existed, taught and aided those on earth) ARE in a sense Catholic. They belong. In THAT way, they are IN the Church and can be saved.

Be careful that you don’t have too mechanistic a view of God. (i.e. doing this forces God to give me that) That is, He isn’t watching you to make sure you cross all the T’s and dot all the I’s. He wants a relationship. That relationship is made possible through his Son, whose body is the Church. So IN Christ we are IN the church.

Let’s restate, Outside of Christ there is no salvation. Does that help?

Just to be complete, some are offended that, using this phrase, non-Christians CANNOT be saved. That is not the case. We are told what WE must do. Remain in Christ. God the Father can save whomever He pleases. He is not bound to do things only this way. He is telling US what WE should do. It is a sure road. Other roads MAY find Him, but this one WILL. Our job is to be obedient.

If a parent says “do this to get a treat, otherwise you can’t have one” and the child refuses, does that mean that it is now absolutely physically impossible for the child to get a treat? No, the parent is making a requirement and demanding obedience. For that child, it is NOW the only way. If the child refuses, the parent will take special steps to exclude the child from that treat. Besides, parents make exceptions based upon circumstances. It’s not the child’s place to negotiate, or worry about another child getting the treat when he/she refuses to be obedient!

If you have not already, start working on your relationship with the Lord. Pray often. Sit in silence. Spend an hour in Eucharistic Adoration. Just explain what’s going on in your life. Jesus is waiting to have you drop by. Mentally or physically. Give him some of your life and he will give you all of his.

God bless!

 

[Randy_Carson]

My questions revolve around Salvation and who has access to it.

Based on my limited knowledge, the Catholic Church has stated that “There is no Salvation outside the Church”. Okay, got it.

In addition, I think the magisterium has stated the Salvation is a gift to all of man kind through Christ’s atonement on the cross for all those that earnestly seek it. Fair enough.

So my first question - Why be Catholic? far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day. Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes? Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

Many have addressed this question, and a Google search will lead you to their answers. I like this one:

The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm

Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation? I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough? Why or why not? Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

You can bet money on the fact that certain non-Catholics will offer you their “easy-believism” responses to your question. God love them, they are concerned for your eternal salvation…at least their hearts are in the right place even if their minds are not. Let me point you to another article which may provide a starting point:

Assurance of Salvation?
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

The article concludes with the following:

We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?” (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who “believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.

For example, Philippians 2:12 says, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation *with fear and trembling.” This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.

Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved? No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

God alone can say who will be saved. This may be a good starting point:

**It Didn’t Go Out with Vatican II **
**The Church’s Position on Salvation outside the Church Is Unchanged **
By Mark P. Shea
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207fea3.asp

 

[deepsouthpapist]

Many have addressed this question, and a Google search will lead you to their answers. I like this one:

The Necessity of Being Catholic
by James Akin
chnetwork.org/journals/nesschurch/ness_7.htm

You can bet money on the fact that certain non-Catholics will offer you their “easy-believism” responses to your question. God love them, they are concerned for your eternal salvation…at least their hearts are in the right place even if their minds are not. Let me point you to another article which may provide a starting point:

Assurance of Salvation?
catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

The article concludes with the following:

We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestants will admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?” (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who “believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away” (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.

For example, Philippians 2:12 says, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation *with fear and trembling.” This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
God alone can say who will be saved. This may be a good starting point:

**It Didn’t Go Out with Vatican II **
**The Church’s Position on Salvation outside the Church Is Unchanged **
By Mark P. Shea
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207fea3.asp

Thanks for the response it certainly helps! Would it be correct to say of the necessity of being Catholic that if you are Catholic and follow her teachings and live a sacramental life you can be reasonably sure of your salvation? Anyone outside the gates of the Church Jesus founded have in some way a deficient relationship with him and as such cannot have the same assurances of salvation but are blessed with varying degrees of Christ’s grace which may lead them to salvation. Close?

 

[VociMike]

My questions revolve around Salvation and who has access to it.

Based on my limited knowledge, the Catholic Church has stated that “There is no Salvation outside the Church”. Okay, got it.

In addition, I think the magisterium has stated the Salvation is a gift to all of man kind through Christ’s atonement on the cross for all those that earnestly seek it. Fair enough.

So my first question - Why be Catholic? far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day. Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes? Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

I can see why you might think this, but as a Catholic I would say we have a much better go of it. We have the fullness of God’s revelation, the fullness of his guidance, the fullness of his grace. Why would anybody want just half or a third of the gifts God makes available to them, rather than the entire package? It’s something like asking, why would you want the whole bible when the core of the gospel can be found in just one or two books? Does that mean the rest of the bible is without value?

Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation? I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough? Why or why not? Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

What did Jesus say more than anything else? “Do not be afraid.” He also said his yoke is light. God desires that we be saved, and he knows we are not superhuman, so salvation does not require superhuman effort. Trust in God, do not be afraid.

Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved? No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

All who are saved are members of the Church. After all, what is the Church but believers? That doesn’t mean that Christ did not grant his full revelation, as well as certain divine authorities and divine protections to the apostles and their successors, and it doesn’t change the fact that those successors, that full revelation, those authorities and protections, are found in the Catholic Church.

In case you haven’t gotten it through the above questions, I am struggling here. My faith has been stretched and tested lately and I am earnestly seeking answers. So please prayerfully respond.

Thank you much and may God bless all of you!

 

[Answersplease]

So my first question - Why be Catholic?

Because Jesus The Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
The Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ.
And the Catholic Church has The Eucharist which is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of the Lord Jesus The Christ.
Rejecting the Catholic Church is like rejecting Jesus The Christ Himself.

far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day.

Easier life maybe in SOME cases, but they do NOT have the same assurance of salvation.
I would even say it is HARDER for them to attain salvation, especially in the more heretical Protestant groups.

Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes?

Yes, the same Salvation, but NOT the same assurance of Salvation.
If a Protestant prays to God for forgiveness, I doubt that they will physically hear God’s voice answering them.
When a Catholic goes to the Sacrament of Confession, the priest actually absolves the Catholic “in persona Christi” meaning the absolution actually came from Christ Himself.

Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

To whom much is given, much is expected.
The Catholics have the fulness of the Truth, that gives them the most responsibility.

Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation?

Trust that God loves you.
Trust that He has a plan to save you, namely His Son Jesus and the Church Jesus built,
The Catholic Church has the ONLY reasonable claim to be that Church.
You just have to accept that salvation plan.

I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough?

Partaking of the Sacraments, especially the Sacrament of Confession, yes it is enough.

Why or why not?

Because, if you confess your sins to a Catholic Priest, then the Priest can absolve your sins “in persona Christi”, meaning it is really Christ Himself who absolves your sins.
Then if you can remain without mortal sins until your death, then you will make it to heaven eventually. If you commit more mortal sins in the meantime, then go to Confession again.

Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

If you think that GOD NEVER ABANDONED the Church He built, then The Holy Spirit must have protected that Church.
The Catholic Church has the ONLY reasonable claim to be that Church.
The Protestants will claim that the True Church is not visible, meaning that the True Church encompasses many different denominations and that they can agree on “important” issues and disagree on “non-important” issues.
That is a weak defense and they delude themsleves. The Protestant denominations don’t agree on BOTH “important” and “non-important” issues. Also, who gets to decide what is an “important” issue, they don’t even agree on that.
If they are all part of the True Church, then The Holy Spirit should be guiding them; if The Holy Spirit is guiding them, then why don’t they all agree?
Protestants who hear the arguments that the Catholic Church has the fulness of The Truth and then they reject the Catholic Church, have placed themselves in a questionable salvation position.

Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved?

Lets say that “saved” means “make it to heaven”.
The Catholic Church’s Deposit Of Faith can say who can be saved.
Basically everyone can be saved, but the closer you are to the Truth, the more of an assurance you have that you will be saved. The farther away you are from the Truth, the less of an assurance you have that you will be saved.
The Catholic Chruch has the fullness of the Truth.

No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

Everyone who is properly baptised is part of the Catholic Church.
Everyone who desires the Truth and tries to live a good life has some kind of baptism that is acceptable to the Catholic Church: properly done water baptism, baptism of blood, explicit baptism of desire, and implicit baptism of desire. People who are “Invincibly Ignorant” will have one of these baptisms.
However those who hear an argument that the Truth is fully found in the Catholic Church and they reject that Truth or refuse to enquire about the Catholic Church, these people are in a precarious salvation position.

In case you haven’t gotten it through the above questions, I am struggling here.

You shall reap if you faint not, falling away after knowing the Truth puts you in a percarious salvation position.

My faith has been stretched and tested lately

I’m guessing thats because of all the uninformed Catholics, Cafeteria Catholics, heretics, and possible shills on this website.

and I am earnestly seeking answers.

It is better to ask your questions in the Ask An Apologist section, if they don’t answer you, then do some searches on the CAF search function.

So please prayerfully respond.

Sorry, I only gave you the answers. I think I got everything right, I apologize if I did’nt.
If not, hopefully there are some knowledgeable Catholics that can correct them.

Thank you much and may God bless all of you!

Your welcome!

 

[caolinlin]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh,I feel the same too
http://www.photosnag.com/img/4713/n09x0302vnsn/clear.gif

 

[deepsouthpapist]

Okay I have read up on Salvation outside the church and unfortunately my questions remain. There was a long and complicated list of many articles on many Catholic web sites including this one and catholic.org and others that had many, many articles regarding the question of salvation outside the church. All of them complicated and none of them clear.

The Catholic church is the ONE church Jesus founded and outside of it there is no salvation.

1. Exception one invincible ignorance. You cannot be held accountable for what you did not know. If you live in a remote part of Africa and not exposed to the Catholic church then your salvation is not in jeopardy.
2. Exception Two - If you are a devote protestant, jew or even Muslim and you live a life of Grace desiring to fulfill God’s will then you to have access to Salvation, provided you don’t KNOW that the Catholic faith is the WAY. So you were taught as a child that your way is right then see exception one.

So okay if these things are true then WHY BE CATHOLIC!!??!!

Easier just remain ignorant and float into heaven! Easier still to just say well, being Catholic may NOT provide the full truth and go live your life desiring to do God’s will and you to will float your way into heaven.

ONLY Catholics that KNOW that the CATHOLIC church is the ONE body of Christ and that deny it, or renounce it or fall into grave mortal sin will go to Hell.

Seems to me, WE are held accountable far more than the rest of the world AND there is still nothing about being Catholic that offers us once ounce whatever of assurance of our OWN salvation merely just the threat of Hell and the rest we “work out with fear and trembling.” Frankly that SUCKS!

And I don’t get it! period.

Somebody clear this up for me and please, please make it simple. I don’t want a thesis or another link to yet ANOTHER article full of seemingly endless contradictions or a dozen subtle nuances. Just answer the question as succinct and direct as possible.

NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? EXPLAIN! PLEASE!

Thanks for the help!

 

[deepsouthpapist]

Say to make it easy, is the following story a good way of describing the Salvation of the church. It is surely an over simplification but I am just trying to understand it the best I can.

So, as a father I am taking a trip in my car to an amazing place. It is a place of unimaginable beauty, peace and comfort. We can stay there forever and no harm will come to anyone while we are there. I invite my family. My sons, daughters and my spouse get in the car. I know the way as I have been there before. We will not get lost. Those in my car will go to the amazing place with me.

There are other sons and daughters as well that left the family many years ago. They started new families and all would like to go to the amazing place but do not have a complete map. However, they can follow the map they received from me years ago the best they can. Their map is fractured through time and disagreement with those seeking the map but all have pieces of the correct map. They however have been given tools by me to recreate the map. They must use these tools to find the amazing place.They may follow the map they have which may get them there or it may not. It depends on how fractured the map is and how well they use the tools to recreate the map. It also depends on how much they garnered from the original map.

I have grandsons and grand daughters as well. They know of the amazing place but have not a map and only have pieces of stories that tell them of the amazing place. However, they too can find the place if only they will listen for the sound of my voice and follow it to the amazing place. I will lead them through the wilderness.

Along the way, all will find me and my family in the car and all who ask will be allowed to travel with us. No matter who they are, all must listen intently to my voice and ask to follow.

Okay, so the car is the Catholic Church and those in the car are inside the true church. The sons that fell away are protestants and grand sons and grand daughters are those that have never been given access to the Catholic Church. No matter the situation whether you are in the car, outside the car or in the wilderness, all will be lead to me if they listen intently for my voice through prayer.

Whew! Is that about it?!

 

[SimonArizona]

Yea, you know, its not like the protestants know that the Catholic Church is the Truth and they are stubbornly rejecting it. They really believe they have found the truth, and they have, just not all of it, and not without large admixtures of error.

“But those who defend their opinion, though false and perverse, with no pertinacious spirit especially an opinion begotten not by the audacity of their presumption, but accepted from seniors seduced and fallen into error, but seek truth with careful solicitude, ready to be corrected when they find it, are not to be counted among the heretics” (Augustine).

They are brothers, who hate their Mother because they have been taught to.

 

[imkingdad]

Okay I have read up on Salvation outside the church and unfortunately my questions remain. There was a long and complicated list of many articles on many Catholic web sites including this one and catholic.org and others that had many, many articles regarding the question of salvation outside the church. All of them complicated and none of them clear.

The Catholic church is the ONE church Jesus founded and outside of it there is no salvation.

1. Exception one invincible ignorance. You cannot be held accountable for what you did not know. If you live in a remote part of Africa and not exposed to the Catholic church then your salvation is not in jeopardy.
2. Exception Two - If you are a devote protestant, jew or even Muslim and you live a life of Grace desiring to fulfill God’s will then you to have access to Salvation, provided you don’t KNOW that the Catholic faith is the WAY. So you were taught as a child that your way is right then see exception one.

So okay if these things are true then WHY BE CATHOLIC!!??!!

Easier just remain ignorant and float into heaven! Easier still to just say well, being Catholic may NOT provide the full truth and go live your life desiring to do God’s will and you to will float your way into heaven.

ONLY Catholics that KNOW that the CATHOLIC church is the ONE body of Christ and that deny it, or renounce it or fall into grave mortal sin will go to Hell.

Seems to me, WE are held accountable far more than the rest of the world AND there is still nothing about being Catholic that offers us once ounce whatever of assurance of our OWN salvation merely just the threat of Hell and the rest we “work out with fear and trembling.” Frankly that SUCKS!

And I don’t get it! period.

Somebody clear this up for me and please, please make it simple. I don’t want a thesis or another link to yet ANOTHER article full of seemingly endless contradictions or a dozen subtle nuances. Just answer the question as succinct and direct as possible.

NO SALVATION OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? EXPLAIN! PLEASE!

Thanks for the help!

#1 is something that is completely in the hands of God & the party must live a good & pure Life in God’s sight. ( basically he/she must obey all the 10 commandments & seek God without the absolute assurance that such knowledge would provide. (also read the Catechism )

#2 They ( pro-test-ants) will have some access to Salvation. However they do NOT now have access to all the Graces of the 7 Sacraments. Read Jn chap 6, read the many references to the Holy Eucharist in Scripture. There are many verses that say we must or unless you do, various acts there will be no admittance for you to Heaven. The Protestants don’t adhere to these. You as a Catholic do ( I hope)

Why be Catholic? Because we have the Fullness of the Truth, We have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition & the Sacred Teaching Authority of the Magisterium. In short, we have the whole package and our protestant brethren have only 1 or 2 of the Sacraments & even then their understanding of those may vary considerably from the Catholic perspective. There is no Easy Salvation, No Guarantees except what you & I make. Do some rascals sneak in with an 11th hour conversion? Yes!

But for the vast Majority just as it was for Christ, its a long & arduous journey.

Where in Scripture are we promised “Rose Garden”, we like Christ will be tempted and tried beyond measure, we must suffer (some), we must Love a lot, and then finally Die & then if we have been Faithful ( just as Christ was Faithful to his Father & fulfilled every OT prophecy ) we will be raised with Christ.

Regards, Yours in Christ