Questions to our Jews friends.

[Steven_John]

Mohammad a super-hero while degrading all the former prophets as incompetent and pathetic creatures

Hi doesnt the Quran say Mohammad (PBWH) is a sinner and ask him to repent?
Doesnt the Quran say Jesus (PBWH) was given the pure spirit?

May God bless you all

 

[Steven_John]

Many Christians here seem to feel that correcting false/inaccurate information about Qur’an or Islam reflects some secret allegiance to Islam. That’s not the case. I am convinced that all these traditions are the opium of the people – including the one I was born into – and I’m willing to approach them all on an equal footing

Amen Amen Amen

Brethren I give thanks and praise to God The Most High for His guidance from your typing words, He has not left me alone here.

To in peace try to bring the truth is allegiance to God. It is action of His true religion.

May the Most High bless you and yours abundantly for serving Him

 

[Sister_Amy]

Hi doesnt the Quran say Mohammad (PBWH) is a sinner and ask him to repent?

Why don’t you go read the Qur’an, and then come back and tell us?

Islam teaches that all prophets are free of major sins. But not necessarily free of minor sins.

Doesnt the Quran say Jesus (PBWH) was given the pure spirit?

Again, why don’t you read it, and answer your own question? The Qur’an says that Jesus was strengthened with the Holy Spirit–who is the Angel Gabriel.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3626025:

As you know, Allah is God. But what makes me believe the Qur’an when I doubt the Bible? Hidayah.

i did not ask you what makes you believe in the Quran. I ask you why you doubt God preserves His scripture when He says as such in the Bible yet you believe the same concept in a book written later?

 

[Angelos]

Your perspective on Qur’an is as valid as Amy’s, from my perspective. It’s all about perspective.

Many Christians here seem to feel that correcting false/inaccurate information about Qur’an or Islam reflects some secret allegiance to Islam. That’s not the case. I am convinced that all these traditions are the opium of the people – including the one I was born into – and I’m willing to approach them all on an equal footing.

Thanks for sharing this with us. I respect your personal beliefs and interpretation.

I personally believe and declare that it is not fair and consistent for the god of Islam to send three prophets with three revelations to Israel whereas to send one prophet to every nation with no written revelation.

It was the movement that the prophet was familiar with. G-d spoke to the prophet in a language he could understand, using terms he could comprehend, and analogies that would have been familiar.

Suppose I tried to suggest a new idea on this forum using the example of Osiris Hor of the Heliopolitan cult… Would I be making a point that anyone here could understand? Or would I be better off talking about a Christian saint who embodied the same traits?

First, the Koran always contends that whatever is written in it is direct revelation from God. Accordingly, the Koran from the first denies the assertion that Mohammad became familiar with religious figures and the other faiths through his contacts with humans. More, not every idea or narrative presented in the Koran sounded familiar either to Muslims or Jews/Christians of Mohammad’s period. For instance, Surah 9 argues that Jews believed Uzair to be the Son of Allah. However, this specific name is missing from the Torah and other religous texts of Judaism.

My statements suggested no such thing. I was giving the Muslim perspective, as I understand it.

Whether G-d sent Jibril to Muhammad (saw) with a literal message, or whether Muhammad (saw) received the message in some other way (even if, as you suggest, he cooked it up out of whole cloth) it doesn’t change the fact that the message contains allusions to thousands of other prophets who preceded Muhammad (saw). We can argue about the authenticity of the message, but we can’t argue about the content, because it’s freely available.

We cannot likewise ignore the fact that the Koran cannot give adequate information on all those non-Jewish prophets, whom it mostly associates with the Arabian peninsula by giving them Arabic names. Further, in some verses of the Koran those non-Jewish prophets are surprisingly excluded from the prophetic lineage, which is said to have begun with Abraham and Isaac.

I’ve read the Qur’an (yeah, the entire thing). My reading doesn’t support this contention, but I do respect your interpretation.

Peace,

LaMar

Thanks and peace to you

 

[Steven_John]

Why don’t you go read the Qur’an, and then come back and tell us?

Islam teaches that all prophets are free of major sins. But not necessarily free of minor sins.

Again, why don’t you read it, and answer your own question? The Qur’an says that Jesus was strengthened with the Holy Spirit–who is the Angel Gabriel.

AsSalum o Alykum
I aint real bright and find it hard to read, i dont record chapters of all the bits i read so it takes me some time.

I was working from memory and was asking what other people understood as i often get thimgs wrong and we no longer have an Imam at the mosque to ask.

I dont know arabic and have 2 versions that have different words just wanted some help.

The tone of your post suggests you are poking at me a bit.

was not out to offend you, please for my future posts consider questions as not to you and me out of your way so there be peace between us.
FOR ME Allah likes it not when we quarrel and blesses those who help especially when the more scholarly help the less. I respect it is not the same for you.

In the past you were real helpful to me and i thank Allah for it.

May Allah keep you always in His ways as so you submit.

 

[inJESUS]

Why don’t you go read the Qur’an, and then come back and tell us?

Islam teaches that all prophets are free of major sins

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi doesnt the Quran say Mohammad (PBWH) is a sinner and ask him to repent?
Doesnt the Quran say Jesus (PBWH) was given the pure spirit?

May God bless you all

Which begs another question, Jesus was pure at heart, and was born of a virgin…
Yet Muhammad was of sin and was the last ‘great’ prophet…

I ask you this, why would God choose someone like Muhammad who sinned to be his last prophet, when he had Jesus, who was pure and born of a miracle, not to be his last ‘prophet’?
If Muhammed was the ‘greatest’ prophet, why was he not born from a virgin, or better still, free from sin from birth?

Also, according to Muslims, there is a prophecy in the bible about Muhammed coming, why not let Jesus become the last prophet since he was pure at heart?

 

[dolphinlove]

May Allah keep you always in His ways as so you submit.

Oh dont worry, we have submitted to God, and his true path, Christianity!

 

[Steven_John]

I ask you this, why would God choose someone like Muhammad who sinned to be his last prophet, when he had Jesus, who was pure and born of a miracle, not to be his last ‘prophet’?

Peace and blessings be unto you and yours.
I think your asking the wrong guy.
your question assumes i have confirmed the questions im asking.
Please see my post responding to Sr Amy. It may take me some time although half my question maybe answered.

When God shall say, O Jesus son of Mary, remember my favour towards thee, and towards thy mother; when I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, that thou shouldest speak unto men in the cradle, and when thou wast grown up;

I was hoping scholars would have given me quick references to both my questions. I know even pagans know nothing good is quick or easy. LOL

The question you ask me is the next step for me. I don’t testify the complete Quran is the final testament. I am too thick to discern such not having even read it completely. When i pray about it i am inspired to believe finding out it is part of why i am here.

I have pondered if we are too stubborn to accept to accept the fullness of the Gospel.
*I don’t know many who sell all they have and follow Jesus (PBWH).
I live in a house have $10k worth of cars send my kid to a Catholic school etc
I do know many who pray in different ways to that that Jesus (PBWH) ie pray to saints ect.
I dont but i pray next to these people and love them so much, i testify they mean well.
*.
I do lots of really cool stuff too working for social justice and volunteering many hours but it is hardly “the way of Jesus (PBWH)”

Jesus (PBWH) was abandoned by us all NOT ONE stood by him, they either deserted him or killed him. I am ashamed. my sins are a part of that.

Given this and God is most merciful its possible we be given a messenger with a less divine way. before the messianic age is realized in the material world.

please please people dont agro at me it is what i ponder and need to answer my other post first.

I will post more as i go.

May God keep and bless you all

 

[Steven_John]

Oh dont worry, we have submitted to God, and his true path, Christianity!

I never said i was worried.

I just offered you a kind greeting.

But hey who needs to be kind to be Christian?

 

[ralphinal]

Of course there was no covenant with Ishmael. Muslims never say there was. (Not any I know of anyway.) But a covenant doesn’t imply prophethood. For example, there are some non-Jewish prophets mentioned in the Qur’an as well–Shu’aib, Saleh, Hud, and other prophets before Abraham like Adam, Noah, and Enoch. Islam says they are prophets… but no mention of a covenant. God says in the Qur’an that he made a covenant with different groups, like the Jews through Moses by the way, and not through Isaac. Not that it matters.

If you were to say that no religious man could come from outside of Isaac’s line, then you would be suggesting that only the Jews are entitled to blessings from God, and that only the Jews have received prophets and revelation… denying all of mankind, essentially.

Many Muslims on this board have said that the Covenant was between God and Abraham through Ishmael, not Isaac. Searh the threads. I would dare say that it is more common than you think. The Koran does not say which son the covenant was through, but someone decided that the Jews made is Isaac to look better.

Holy people can and did come from outside Isaac’s line. I think that we are missing what it meant to be the Chosen People. They were to be a sign ot the world that God cares for man, thus pulling others into the Light of God.

 

[ralphinal]

I would love to get the Jewish perspective on this. Tuesday, in Bible study, we were looking at the Letter to the Romans. Paul, being a Jew, makes the statement that even though God’s covenant was with Abraham, it was through Sarah. It was the same with Isaac and Jacob: the covenant was transmitted through one of the women and not all of them. It was similar to the understanding that if your mother is Jewish, you are too. If you mother is not, it does not matter if your father was, you are not genetically Jewish. Would this make sense in your faith?

Assuming that it did, God’s pledge to Abraham was transmitted through Sarah, meaning Isaac. Why? Because God said that it would be Sarah. Now, he did promise to make Ishmael a people, but as Valke pointed out, there was no condition from his part to make it a covenant. More like a gift.

 

[LaMar]

Salaam Alaikum Steven John. Thanks for your kind words.

I don’t know what religion you indulge in, if any. I think that’s the point of your messages, which is sorta wise on this forum.

It has been interesting to read articles here, and t interact with people of different faiths. There’s you, Sister Amy, Hashem Echad, Matt_RC and Why Me. So many people of different traditions, all of whom disagree on specifics, but are united in their devotion to the fundamentals of decency and civilized behavior. It’s especially apparent when folks disagree.

If there is a G-d, I used to think he’d be upset with me. After meeting some of his disciples here, I’m not too sure. You and others are big enough to see the humanity of your intellectual opponents. I’m confident G-d could do at least this much…

Blessings to you too…

Amen Amen Amen

Brethren I give thanks and praise to God The Most High for His guidance from your typing words, He has not left me alone here.

To in peace try to bring the truth is allegiance to God. It is action of His true religion.

May the Most High bless you and yours abundantly for serving Him

 

[Sister_Amy]

AsSalum o Alykum
I aint real bright and find it hard to read, i dont record chapters of all the bits i read so it takes me some time.

I was working from memory and was asking what other people understood as i often get thimgs wrong and we no longer have an Imam at the mosque to ask.

I dont know arabic and have 2 versions that have different words just wanted some help.

The tone of your post suggests you are poking at me a bit.

was not out to offend you, please for my future posts consider questions as not to you and me out of your way so there be peace between us.
FOR ME Allah likes it not when we quarrel and blesses those who help especially when the more scholarly help the less. I respect it is not the same for you.

In the past you were real helpful to me and i thank Allah for it.

May Allah keep you always in His ways as so you submit.

Actually I want to apologize. I wasn’t intending to be short with you in my last post, but as I just came online and re-read it… well you’re right, it seems pretty rude. I thought I was trying to encourage you to read the Qur’an but it came out as sarcasm.

I’m sorry.

I hope I can be helpful to you in the future, and you’ll forgive my poor judgment and manners in the past. I will try to be more considerate.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Many Muslims on this board have said that the Covenant was between God and Abraham through Ishmael, not Isaac. Searh the threads. I would dare say that it is more common than you think. The Koran does not say which son the covenant was through, but someone decided that the Jews made is Isaac to look better.

I’ll take your word that Muslims on this board have said it, but that doesn’t make it a teaching of Islam. Let me just say that I have never heard that teaching from any of my teachers and we talk about Abraham quite frequently. I’ve never come across it so I don’t think it has any validity in Islam.

 

[ralphinal]

I’ll take your word that Muslims on this board have said it, but that doesn’t make it a teaching of Islam. Let me just say that I have never heard that teaching from any of my teachers and we talk about Abraham quite frequently. I’ve never come across it so I don’t think it has any validity in Islam.

You know, I am beginning to think that there is something in Islam that either limits the ability of its members to reason things out on their own or it keeps them from learning for themselves.

Sister Amy,
You, and some of the other Muslim Posters on here seem to have a system. You read and learn your faith, then go to those who are respected teachers for clarification or advice. That is good. There seem to be some who do not learn it on their own or are not careful of who teaches them. Hence, you get minor things like the was it Ishmael or Isaac or major things like the acceptance of the killing of innocents.

Does this make sense?

 

[Sister_Amy]

You know, I am beginning to think that there is something in Islam that either limits the ability of its members to reason things out on their own or it keeps them from learning for themselves.

Sister Amy,
You, and some of the other Muslim Posters on here seem to have a system. You read and learn your faith, then go to those who are respected teachers for clarification or advice. That is good. There seem to be some who do not learn it on their own or are not careful of who teaches them. Hence, you get minor things like the was it Ishmael or Isaac or major things like the acceptance of the killing of innocents.

Does this make sense?

I think so. But I don’t agree with your first paragraph. The Qur’an really commands Muslims to think deeply, and reason, and use logic, and reflect. And there are two kinds of knowledge, really. Let’s say real knowledge, and “lite” knowledge. You can get “lite” knowledge from reading, learning from a teacher, spending time around knowledgeable people. That is “lite” knowledge. But the real deep knowledge comes from taking those things in and digesting them, over time reflecting and pondering and drawing connections.

But if you don’t go to a teacher, you make mistakes, draw the wrong connections. You can’t learn a martial art from reading a book, and then filling in the gaps with your own opinions and guesses–and you can’t do it with theology.

Some people try to jump to the real knowledge stage from reading books and stuff, and they say stuff that’s just wrong. It’s kind of like looking at a cone from the bottom and saying, hey, it’s a circle! And someone else sees it sideways and says hey, it’s a triangle! And in fact they are both wrong because they aren’t looking at the whole thing.

I don’t know if that makes sense, but I see a lot of Muslims making mistakes about Islam because they’ve tried to draw conclusions from insufficient data.

 

[ralphinal]

I think so. But I don’t agree with your first paragraph. The Qur’an really commands Muslims to think deeply, and reason, and use logic, and reflect. And there are two kinds of knowledge, really. Let’s say real knowledge, and “lite” knowledge. You can get “lite” knowledge from reading, learning from a teacher, spending time around knowledgeable people. That is “lite” knowledge. But the real deep knowledge comes from taking those things in and digesting them, over time reflecting and pondering and drawing connections.

But if you don’t go to a teacher, you make mistakes, draw the wrong connections. You can’t learn a martial art from reading a book, and then filling in the gaps with your own opinions and guesses–and you can’t do it with theology.

Some people try to jump to the real knowledge stage from reading books and stuff, and they say stuff that’s just wrong. It’s kind of like looking at a cone from the bottom and saying, hey, it’s a circle! And someone else sees it sideways and says hey, it’s a triangle! And in fact they are both wrong because they aren’t looking at the whole thing.

I don’t know if that makes sense, but I see a lot of Muslims making mistakes about Islam because they’ve tried to draw conclusions from insufficient data.

That makes sense. I know why so many CAtholics do not know their faith: they never learn it. Now that may be because they were not taught it well (which is often the case) or because they did not leanr it on thier own (again, often the case). It just seems like Islam lends itself to poor interpretations if you do not study it correctly.

This example, Ishmael and Isaac, can be answered in several ways. First, there is an ethnic bias by Arabian Muslims to say it was Ishmael and that is one way the Jews corrupted the scripture. the second way is that anti-semetic groups in the Muslim people want to show that Ishmael is the true heir to Abraham. A third option is that those who claim it want to feel important

 

[HashemEchad]

I would love to get the Jewish perspective on this. Tuesday, in Bible study, we were looking at the Letter to the Romans. Paul, being a Jew, makes the statement that even though God’s covenant was with Abraham, it was through Sarah. It was the same with Isaac and Jacob: the covenant was transmitted through one of the women and not all of them. It was similar to the understanding that if your mother is Jewish, you are too. If you mother is not, it does not matter if your father was, you are not genetically Jewish. Would this make sense in your faith?

Assuming that it did, God’s pledge to Abraham was transmitted through Sarah, meaning Isaac. Why? Because God said that it would be Sarah. Now, he did promise to make Ishmael a people, but as Valke pointed out, there was no condition from his part to make it a covenant. More like a gift.

In Judaism, religious status is determined via the maternal line. This was not always the case; otherwise, many of the children of King David and King Solomon would not be regarded as Jews, since both kings married many heathen wives.

In the Book of Ezra (a later prophet), we see how the rule was now to be that religious status was determined via the mother’s line.

Ezra told the Israelite men to “put away your heathen wives and their children”…the assumption being that if the children were truly Jews, they would not have to be “put away” along with the heathen wives.

However, TRIBAL status in Judaism is determined via the paternal line, just as determination for Messianic status is also via the paternal line.

So its: TRIBAL status: paternal
RELIGIOUS status: maternal
MESSIANIC status: paternal