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bonniemarie

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we have started going to a catholic church . My question is this what does the church say about things you did before joining . I got my tubes tied after my last child(i have 4) not because i didn’t want more kids but because of medical issues i had during my last pregnancy. Just curious what the churches take is on things like this.
 
Sex is a far more complicated thing than people today generally recognize. In a way, it is THE most significant way in which we reflect the image of God (the creation of new life). Libraries of books exist on the subject, but this is the basis of why the Church takes messing with sexuality so seriously.

Brevity always means losing completeness. So don’t take my answer as the final word, but a starting point. Having ones tubes tied to prevent further pregnancy is always wrong because of what it does to your mindset about sex. But it isn’t the unforgivable sin either. Read up on catholic sexual moral theology some more. Start with Humanae Vitae (don’t worry, it’s in English, online even). Try out “Good News About Sex & Marriage” for more. Once you comprehend and when/if you get that far in RCIA (how one becomes catholic), take it to confession.

There is no need to try to reverse things, but you do need to actively work at avoiding the mindset of sex as a merely self indulgent pleasure. Again, read smarter people than me!
 
First of all… welcome. 🙂

Past sins can be forgiven in the Sacrament of Reconciliation… always. There is NO sin that God will not forgive if you are willing to repent for decisions that may have not been in line with the full teachings of the faith.

Contact your parish priest and set up an appointment to talk… 🙂

^^^^ And DITTO the very smart (;)) comments above… great references to understand the teachings of the faith on sexuality!!!
 
I think the Church would say you did not commit a mortal sin, because you didn’t have full knowledge of the Church’s teachings on sterilization. It is something to mention in your First Confession, if you do decide to become Catholic, but not something to dwell on. All converts come to the Church with things from their lives before. Focus on the future.

And welcome! 🙂
 
bonniemarie said:
we have started going to a catholic church . My question is this what does the church say about things you did before joining . I got my tubes tied after my last child(i have 4) not because i didn’t want more kids but because of medical issues i had during my last pregnancy. Just curious what the churches take is on things like this.
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Hi, there.

Catholic Answers Forums apologist Michelle Arnold answers that sterilization, even for medical reasons, is a grave act under Catholic morality.

But Ms. Arnold also notes that such action isn’t unforgivable by any means, nor does it require you to reverse the procedure. As others have noted, as you progress in your path into the Church, arrange with your priest for a private confession (if you are already properly baptized as a Christian, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is open to you) about the matter. That should be all that’s required. God bless.
 
As others have indicated, but I will try to be more concise.
  1. Welcome, and thank you also for joining us here! 🙂
  2. You do not have to reverse the procedure to be sufficiently remorseful for purposes of reconciliation, but doing so would be meritorious.
  3. I recommend that you go to confession and genuinely confess this sin, even if for you it was not committed with full knowledge. Might as well get any sin in this regard off your soul!
 
so the church would rather see me or a baby die. Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
 
bonniemarie said:
so the church would rather see me or a baby die. Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
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I pray that you be open to the Church’s teaching and read up on the matter. The references in the first reply are excellent. If medical reasons prevent you from safely carrying a child, the Chruch offers alternatives to sterilization to prevent pregnancy.
 
bonniemarie said:
so the church would rather see me or a baby die. Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
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Hello, bonniemarie. Your statement of frustration and anguish really struck a chord with me, since I have wrestled with Catholic moral teachings for a long time. I’m not making any claim to special theological knowledge here, but I have survived and am still happy about being in the Church.
  1. Flipping out over some of the Catholic moral teachings is perfectly natural, but you might want to take a deep breath and put it into context before reconsidering your choice to approach the Catholic Church.🙂
  2. Life as a human is a very complicated thing – ANY attempt to codify it into rules will get very complex and miss lots of special cases. (Think about how many books it takes to list local, state, or federal laws.) I think the Catholic Church is usually right in their evaluation of “how things should be” in giving guideposts for our culture which seems to have lost almost all capability to draw any line between right and wrong.
  3. My understanding is that Catholic moral teaching can take into account the diverse and extenuating circumstances of individual cases. Sometimes this might be explicitly mentioned (consideration for the life of the mother, for example), but it can ALWAYS come into play during individual confession. I have found the Sacrament of Reconciliation to be a touchstone of healing and guidance in my life.
    [It seems to me as though all the people who have replied to your thread so far have tried to give exactly this kind of advice… “In the ideal world, sterilization is not a good thing to do (but we readily accept that you did it for medical reasons and not selfish reasons). This is something that you can confess once and be forgiven.” (My dad received once-and-done official forgiveness for having a vasectomy, even though his sterilization was NOT for the valid medical reasons you mentioned for your case.)]
  4. If you’d like to talk more in a quieter setting about my experiences with particular issues, please feel free to send me a Private Message.
Praying for us all,
  • curl
 
so the church would rather see me or a baby die. Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
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I can feel your frustration and dismay. However, I respectfully submit that you might misunderstand the Church, and I would hope that you can reconsider. Jesus Christ has the words of eternal life, and His Church has the fullness of Truth.

The Church doesn’t want either you or any baby die. The Church wants to bring everyone, including you, into eternal life with God, and wants everyone to live life to the full in this life. The Church has been given unique access to the Truth, and unique authority, and so the Church has a unique standing to tell us what God wants on these matters. Please do read more before jumping to the conclusion that the Church wants anyone to die.

In your particular situation, I believe that you have no obligation in the Church to reverse the procedure. Thus, you don’t have to face such a radical choice.
 
bonniemarie said:
so the church would rather see me or a baby die.
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Bonnie,

I am unsure how you arrived at this conclusion based on the answers to your question.

Sterilization and contraception are gravely wrong acts. These put one in **spiritual **danger of death-- meaning separation from God-- and the Church absolutely does not want any person to be in such peril.

If you have a serious reason to avoid a pregancy, there are perfectly moral ways to do so that do not go against God’s law. I think your reaction is a little overheated-- I mean really, do you think the Church “would rather see you and your baby die?” That makes no sense.

Your logic is flawed and your conculsion is erroneous. Neither the Church, nor any individuals in the Church, want you or a child to be in danger. That means neither spiritually nor physically. So, the Church proclaims the truth about the gravely wrong acts of sterilizaition and contraception while also teaching that those with serious reasons to avoid pregnancy may do so using moral means.
bonniemarie said:
Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
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Sounds like seeds scattered on sandy soil.

The roots go deep, Bonnie. Seriously, one question on an anonymous internet forum is making you “reconsider” the Catholic Church?

Why not, instead, try reading the vast body of documents available to help you learn the full teaching of the Church and also go to inquiry classes at your local parish (RCIA) to talk with others and learn in a more organized fashion than randomly asking questions on the internet.

Certainly CAF plays a role in questions and discussion, but you cannot take the answers given here out of context from the full body of teaching of the Church and jump to conclusions based on one or two posts.

Really, if you are serious about the Catholic faith take the time to learn it and live it in an integrated fashion.
 
curl said:
[It seems to me as though all the people who have replied to your thread so far have tried to give exactly this kind of advice… "In the ideal world, sterilization is not a good thing to do (but we readily accept that you did it for medical reasons and not selfish reasons).
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Everyone has stated that sterilization is a gravely wrong act. In her case, because she did not know it was wrong, she has not necessarily committed a mortal sin. But, it remains a fact that sterilization is *always *wrong. Not “in an ideal world” but always.

I believe what is being communicated is that people can understand that she did not have the truth about sterilization at the time she had it done, and therefore made her decision based on the knowledge she did have which was probably universally telling her it was a “good” thing. She acted in good conscience based on the information she had at the time. What is now being communicated is that the information she had was incomplete. God’s law teaches us a different standard for sexual intimacy and actions surrounding it.
curl said:
This is something that you can confess once and be forgiven."
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This is a true statement, provided that there is contrition.
[/quote]
 
ok, I was in the same club - I had a sterilization before receiving my sacraments. I did not understand. Now, I do. I also have medical reasons that are grave. I will tell you that NFP is very effective for those women that are in our boat. It is about trusting the Lord and not man to see us through. NFP when done right and practiced with discipline is as effective as sterilization. It is when we tinker with things and get in God’s way that we create a problem. It has not hindered my Faith at all. As a matter of fact through my own self seeking I have been able to grow and understand and am now seeking higher degrees in Ministry.
 
bonniemarie said:
we have started going to a catholic church . My question is this what does the church say about things you did before joining . I got my tubes tied after my last child(i have 4) not because i didn’t want more kids but because of medical issues i had during my last pregnancy. Just curious what the churches take is on things like this.
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Sterilization is never an acceptable means of preventing pregnancy, even because of “medical issues”. I don’t believe you understood this when you chose sterilization so the church would not say you were in mortal sin.

Now ,you have commented
so the church would rather see me or a baby die. Wow this is making me reconsider going to a Catholic church.
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No one in this thread has said any such thing so you need to figure out why you feel so threatened.
The church teaches that for serious reasons we may prevent pregnancy using the natural means that God gave us. That is a far cry from your statement.

I hope you will need to look a little deeper before you throw in the towel with such a knee-jerk reaction to see exactly what is going on here and why the church teaches what she does. The ability and responsibility of a married couple to create new life with God is a very important thing and needs to be protected as well as used wisely and lovingly.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp

catholic.com/library/Contraception_and_Sterilization.asp

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6364&CFID=32675535&CFTOKEN=13002539
 
sorry didn’t mean to snap like that . we have alot of things going on right now. thanks for all the replys. still plan on attending church.🙂
 
bonniemarie said:
sorry didn’t mean to snap like that . we have alot of things going on right now. thanks for all the replys. still plan on attending church.🙂
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Great! Just remember a lot of things about the Catholic faith and culture are going to be really strange and sometimes maybe even upsetting at first until you look at them closer. Ask any questions you need to.
 
One thing that helped me in my situation is I looked at the use of Free Will and God’s Plan. When I had my tubes tied it was a sin but I was unaware of that. It was not until later when I entered the Church that I learned that I was. Maybe this was God’s way of timing my full acceptance of Him to protect me. God has a plan for all of us and it is not for me to understand - it is just for me to be open to. I do plan on adopting later on - older children - everyone wants the babies - my dh and I want the older headcases that might otherwise be stuck in the system because we have had our own trials that we feel we can share and show them the way to God. Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you deal with it. God bless you and your husband.
 
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