questions?

[Hastrman]

I think Christian pessimism is one of the things Wiccans find distasteful. Wiccans don’t believe that nature is fallen, and tend to view nature as the true and proper image of divine reality.

They think we’re pessimists, they should try Buddhism. At least Christians think there are things in the universe worth wanting–in Buddhism, the illusion of the value of things is the source of all suffering.

 

[reborn_pagan]

I’ve always been curious about this.

As a Pagan, do you believe that the God from Catholicism/Christianity, exists?
If so, how do you reconcile with your own beliefs the Catholic/Christian belief in only Catholicism/Christianity and in no other deities or ethical code?

Do you think that Catholics misrepresent our God, and that He never really said there were no other deities or that specifically Catholic/Christian ethics are universal? Or what…? I’m genuinely curious about this, and maybe you can only give me your personal view since Paganism and Wicca don’t necessarily have one set dogma aside from the rede.

I ask it because you obviously can’t believe that everything we believe about God is true, as that would render your own beliefs impossible…so I’d like to know what you do believe.

Thanks for your time and answers!

the one true christian god, no i dont bealive in him…

Do you think that Catholics misrepresent our God

No…as many types of christians I’ve met Catholics are the best

ask it because you obviously can’t believe that everything we believe about God is true, as that would render your own beliefs impossible…so I’d like to know what you do believe.

Ehh??/

 

[reborn_pagan]

So you’ve never met anyone who worships Jupiter?

Nope

 

[reborn_pagan]

A few more:

In assessing the moral quality of an action, does the pagan define harm as damage to others’ personal autonomy, or is it a utilitarian calculation, e.g., I can do this act, despite collateral damage, since the action may seem to benefit more people’s condition?

Does the individual pagan owe an obligation to the broader society in which he finds himself? Are there any just limitations on the actions of a pagan?

What obligation does a pagan have to thoroughly scout out the moral implications of his action? To what extent is “harm” discerned?

In assessing the moral quality of an action, does the pagan define harm as damage to others’ personal autonomy, or is it a utilitarian calculation, e.g., I can do this act, despite collateral damage, since the action may seem to benefit more people’s condition?

Harm none…in any way,shape and form

 

[Montalban]

Nope

Are you aware that there are some people who do?

 

[kellie]

Wicca is not a single Church, any more than is Christianity. Wicca is a group of traditions and symbols and rituals, that are implemented locally. So, first, remember that any broad answer will vary in local expression

Wicca has one great ethical principle, commonly called the Witch’s Rede (rede means advice): If it harms none, do what you will. Wiccans are granted freedom to find their own way, as long as they practice the mindfullness of ‘Harm None’.

Wicca is widely taught in books, some better than others. The most traditional way to learn Wicca is to be initiated into a traditional coven, and learn from living teachers. However, probably the majority of people who call themselves wiccans, at this point, have learned from books, and experimentation.

The Rede appeared in the mid 60’s at least in the traditional set of words. Gerald Gardner, who was the first to write publically about Wicca (and who probably wrote a lot of Wicca) dais that witches keep ‘harm none’ as a basic principle.

All interpretation, in Wicca is done locally, even individually. There are traditions and sayings that are passed through wiccan culture and writing, many of which are widely held.

In general, Wicca and neopaganism believe human beings to be pretty good beings, entirely capable of knowing the good intrinsically, and acting on it.

Ian

Hmm ok, thanks Ian, I sort of understand.

Christianity follows the teachings of Jesus.

So apart from the rede, is there anything else that Wicca follows?

And if it can be so varied between person to person, as long as they follow that rede, why do they associate themselves with such a general name as Wicca, if they want to stay so indivualised, why don’t it’s followers just practice the art of being nice to people ( I know I have over simplified, I am trying to understand what or who they follow ).

Where is it written or taught what and who all these gods are that they choose to follow?

How long have these gods been known to humans?

 

[Montalban]

So apart from the rede, is there anything else that Wicca follows?

Wiccans can follow just about anything and still call it Wicca

 

[KindredSoul]

No…as many types of christians I’ve met Catholics are the best

Well thanks!

Ehh??/

If you reread the part of my post that got this reaction, I think that you answered that question here:

the one true christian god, no i dont bealive in him…

My point had been that if you believe in other gods, you can’t also think our religion is completely true since it claims that there’s only one true God; so I’d been wondering how you can think both religions are true at once, which you answered here.

I’ve got another question now: What I meant by “Do you think Catholics misrepresent God” wasn’t whether you think we live good lives (though again I thank you to your response to that!) but whether you think we misunderstood God’s message when we say He’s the one and only God, or do you believe that a deity actually wrongly claimed to be the one and only God? Just your personal theory (obviously we believe He is truly the one true God, I’m just curious as to your view about how our belief came to be–as a result of divine dishonesty or human misunderstanding, since it clearly can’t be considered true in your religion).

 

[reborn_pagan]

Where is it written or taught what and who all these gods are that they choose to follow?

You can find them in mythology,and with the internet you can just google them up

How long have these gods been known to humans

Long before the christian age.

 

[IanCorrigan]

KarenNC:

Excellent post!

I have a question - I have met some Wiccans and Neopagans that believe that there is a single “source” of Divinity in the universe.

Do you have the same understanding?

Many polytheistic systems hold with a single and unified source (or outcome) of the divine. The Hindus, for instance, speak of the brahman (not the same as the God Brahma the Creator) which is an impersonal all-existence that underlies and connects manifest reality. This brahman is understood as the highest divine nature, but it has no preferences, no quality not perfectly balanced by another quality, no personal will. This sort of idea was plainly present in ancient Pagan Greek philosophy as well.

This all-divine continuum generally isn’t ‘worshipped’ by Pagans. There are no temples to it, it has no rites, no images. Instead it is sought in mystical practices, since it is as truly present in the human self as in the highest deity.

So, while many pagans hold with a monistic all-one-spirit, this is quite different from the monotheistic only-one-deity notion.

Ian

 

[IanCorrigan]

So apart from the rede, is there anything else that Wicca follows?

Do you mean in terms of ethical or moral teaching? There is a variety of advice and idea that witches teach one another - but in the end we assume that each person is able to find and do the good.

**And if it can be so varied between person to person, as long as they follow that rede, why do they associate themselves with such a general name as Wicca, **

Wicca has a fairly unified body of belief and practice about ritual, symbolism and lore. Wicca is most plainly based on the symbolism of its rituals, which use the Circle (the cosmos) the Four Elements at the four cross-points of the circle, with a whole complex of meanings about them, and most usually with the Dual Divine - the Lady and the Lord - in the center. Wiccans bring themselves into this mandala and experience it, commune with the divine within it, and then reach their (our) own comclusions. Since we use the same symbols, our conclusions tend to resemble one another, and if they don’t, we don’t find that difficult, because we still share the symbols.

Where is it written or taught what and who all these gods are that they choose to follow?

Many Wiccans work with a kind of abstract Lord and Lady, but it is also common for wiccans to honor culturally-based deities, such as Diana or Pan. Wiccans find the lore of these deities in the tales and teachings of pre-christian europe.

Non-wiccan Pagans are more likely to honor a specific group of the Old Gods, rather than the Wiccan Lord and Lady.

How long have these gods been known to humans?

I doubt that there was ever a time when humans didn’t honor the Gods.

Wicca and the Neopagan revival is in its first century. Think back to the first century of the christian religion, in which numerous sects and doctrines began to compete for what would become ‘true’ christianity. In those days anyone could call themselves a christian, and proclaim that they had the real gnosis, or whatever. Wicca is pretty much in that state now. Only the coming decades will tell us what wicca and neopaganism will be like in a century.

 

[IanCorrigan]

So you’ve never met anyone who worships Jupiter?

I have, though he isn’t usually the most actively worshipped deity, even among roman reconstructionists. But as I understand it, a roman reconstructionist would not call Jupiter the Creator of all, or consider him omnipotent and providential.

Ian

 

[Maxply]

reborn:
I’m feeling kindly toward you, but it seems from above that you’re really either just very laid back and haven’t looked deeply into these matters, or you’re just intellectually lazy.

That may sound harsh, for sure, but you DID say you would answer questions.

There are many people who just wave a peace-branch over everything and try to calm out heavy duty discussions. For your sake, do take some time to explore the implications of your beliefs. I’ve asked some serious questions, and I just get back this “do no harm” stuff again and again, a kind of morally stupefying, morally numbing mantra.

 

[kellie]

You can find them in mythology,and with the internet you can just google them up

Long before the christian age.

What authoritive books on mythology does one read to find these gods?

Surely you cant base a religion on the internet

 

[Montalban]

So you’ve never met anyone who worships Jupiter?

I have, though he isn’t usually the most actively worshipped deity, even among roman reconstructionists. But as I understand it, a roman reconstructionist would not call Jupiter the Creator of all, or consider him omnipotent and providential.

Ian

How do you feel about other gods also claiming to be worshipped as the supreme god?

 

[Hastrman]

I have a question: why do wiccans insist on calling themselves witches?

I mean, I know Gardner wanted to revive the religion described in the (now thoroughly, almost contempibly debunked) book, “Witch Cult in Europe”, but why do they persist, especially considering how dead that theory is?

The reason I ask is, wiccans don’t seem to know what historical witches were. Witchcraft was a capital crime in Ancient Rome and Greece, and in Druidic Ireland and Viking Scandinavia. It’s poppycock to say witches were a survival of the naturalistic pagan religions that Christianity replaced, when witchery was a death-penalty crime in all of those pagan cultures.

Where I come from, the last time a suspected witch was murdered (in a documented case, anyway) was 1993. See, in northern Arizona, there is an Indian tribe called the Navajo, the largest in America. And the ultimate evil in their culture is witches, ’áńt’įįzhį (sounds like “hant, injin”), who violate Navajo taboos in order to gain magic power. They usually gain their power through incest or murdering a close relative; First Man, having no relatives, created witchery by killing himself and then, vampire-like, bringing himself back to life. Witches are the ones who roam the world as skinwalkers (yee naaldlooshii, sounds like “yeh naldloshi”), and they curse people by seeding their homes or bodies with corpse-poison, a powder made from the fingerprints of corpses.

The rest of mankind has similar beliefs about witches, and it always has. Why on earth would you want to identify yourselves with that?

The principle, “an ye harm none, do as you will,” is absolutely inimical to being a witch. If you use magic not to harm but to help, you’re a magician, which has its risks, but you’re not a witch. By definition, a witch uses magic to harm.

 

[Sixtus]

As the psalm says: 'the gods of the heathens are nought!

 

[rayne100]

I have a question: why do wiccans insist on calling themselves witches?
quote]

I may be speaking out of turn here, however, practitioners of Wicca do not insist upon bein called “Witch”. In fact Witch is a totally separate skill set from Paganism and Wicca.

One can be a Witch and have no religious affiliations.

Just because one is Pagan does not require them to practice Witchcraft and in fact stands alone from that practice.

 

[IanCorrigan]

I have a question: why do wiccans insist on calling themselves witches?

The word ‘wicca’ is a version of the Anglo-Saxon word that becomes the word ‘witch’ in middle and modern english. That word is ‘wicce’ in the feminine and ‘wicca’ in the masculine, pronounced ‘wich-eh’. It derives from Indo-European roots that mean ‘magic and divination’. Earlier attempts to derive ‘witch’ from ‘witega’ - wisdom, or from a very similar root meaning ‘bending’ (i.e. wicker) have been set aside in favor of that more recent and reliable etymology.

The religion that is presently called ‘wicca’ by some, was originally simply called ‘witchcraft’ by those who developed it. You’re right, this was based on the now-discredited notion of a medieval ‘witch-cult’ that was a continuation of pre-christian religion. While there is plenty of evidence of continuation of pagan religion in europe right into the early modern era, there’s almost no evidence that it had the form suggested by the christian imagination in the witch trials - covens, secret oaths, hierarchy, etc.

The fact is, there is now a multi-generational history of neopagan witchcraft, and lots of folks identify with the term. In many ways, I think it’s a reclaiming effort, in the same way that some folks like to identify with terms like ‘queer’ or even racial slurs. In claiming words that have formerly been used as defamation as positive terms many find a sort of defiant power. Paganism places no great emphasis on obedience or on the value or validity of authority, so defiance, itself, has a pretty positive spin.

Ian

 

[Montalban]

The word ‘wicca’ is a version of the Anglo-Saxon word that becomes the word ‘witch’ in middle and modern english.

Ian

How do you account for a number of different pantheons of gods?