Questions

[Flying_Bison]

When arguing with protestant, Catholics never really seem to get any where. So instead of verse slinging and fighting, I thought that I would just ask a few questions.

1. Most Protestants appear to believe that personal interpretation of the Bible is the only true authority. How then can they ever argue that they are correct? After all I am using the same bible, my interpretation should be as good as yours.
2. Protestants often accuse Catholics of using man made traditions. Self-interpretation and sola-scriptura are in and of themselves man-made. We can trace back to history the evolution of these doctorines and their creators.
3. How do Protestant know that the Bible is the word of God? I assume it is because when they became Christians someone told them that the Bible is the word of God. So in effect, Protestants believe the Bible is the word of God because someone told them it was. They must therefore believe in the authority of another, because I don’t know of any Protestants that compiled their own self bible based on historical evidence alone.
4. How do we know what books should be included in the Bible? Why aren’t the Letter of Clement to the Cor., The Didache, etc. included as they are from the first century and written before some books included in the new testament.
5. Why is 2 Peter and letter to the Hebrews in the Bible. Most scholars agree that 2 Peter wasn’t written by Peter and Hebrews wasn’t written by Paul.
6. Most Protestant argue that the Holy Spirit guides them in interpretation. How do they know this and How come so many come up with so many wildly different interpretations? Either they Holy Spirit is guiding everyone in a different direction, Only one person has the spirit because I think that most protestants would agree that there is only one Gospel of the Lord, or the Spirit does not guide individuals.
7. How do Protestants know that Catholics are wrong? We use the Bible and have Traditions (Protestants do too even if the don’t admit it) Should the Catholic Position be just as justified as your own based on you definition of authority. I believe that the Bible says there should be on true Church, with Peter at its head. How can one tell me I am wrong. I am Guided by the Spirit and this is my personal interpretation.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

When arguing with protestant, Catholics never really seem to get any where. So instead of verse slinging and fighting, I thought that I would just ask a few questions.

1. Most Protestants appear to believe that personal interpretation of the Bible is the only true authority. How then can they ever argue that they are correct? After all I am using the same bible, my interpretation should be as good as yours.

You need to point this out to them, what is better is to point out any two PROTESTANT denominations that BOTH use the “Bible Alone” YET preach CONTRADICTORY teachings. For example Lutherans believe salvation can be lost while Baptists believe salvation cannot be lost…this is a serious issue yet both cant be right.

1. Protestants often accuse Catholics of using man made traditions. Self-interpretation and sola-scriptura are in and of themselves man-made. We can trace back to history the evolution of these doctrines and their creators.

Point out that Sola Scriptura DOES NOT address who is the authority when it comes to INTERPRETING. Just because 10 people agree the Bible is all you need does NOT mean they agree on INTERPRETATION.

1. How do Protestant know that the Bible is the word of God? I assume it is because when they became Christians someone told them that the Bible is the word of God. So in effect, Protestants believe the Bible is the word of God because someone told them it was. They must therefore believe in the authority of another, because I don’t know of any Protestants that compiled their own self bible based on historical evidence alone.

This is the most damaging and damming evidence against Sola Scriptura. They have no answer for that question.

1. How do we know what books should be included in the Bible? Why aren’t the Letter of Clement to the Cor., The Didache, etc. included as they are from the first century and written before some books included in the new testament.

See above answer.

1. Why is 2 Peter and letter to the Hebrews in the Bible. Most scholars agree that 2 Peter wasn’t written by Peter and Hebrews wasn’t written by Paul.

Its not good to use claims like “most scholars agree” because you can always find a “scholar” who will agree with you.
It also becomes a “my scholar is smarter than your scholar” argument.

1. Most Protestant argue that the Holy Spirit guides them in interpretation. How do they know this and How come so many come up with so many wildly different interpretations? Either they Holy Spirit is guiding everyone in a different direction, Only one person has the spirit because I think that most protestants would agree that there is only one Gospel of the Lord, or the Spirit does not guide individuals.

This is another good point which they cant explain. Further it is good to point out that all will claim they are “led by the Holy Spirit” but few, if any, will claim their denomination is the One and Only Church established by Jesus (and that all other denominations are wrong).

7)How do Protestants know that Catholics are wrong? We use the Bible and have Traditions (Protestants do too even if the don’t admit it) Should the Catholic Position be just as justified as your own based on you definition of authority. I believe that the Bible says there should be on true Church, with Peter at its head. How can one tell me I am wrong. I am Guided by the Spirit and this is my personal interpretation.

You just defined Sola Scriptura.
The real definition of Sola Scriptura is: You are allowed to have almost any interpretation of Scripture as long as your interpretation does NOT agree with a Catholic interpretation.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

In addition someone who is a theologian or a student of latin or greek is going to understand the biblical context differently than the average reader.

 

[Techno2000]

You just defined Sola Scriptura.
The real definition of Sola Scriptura is: You are allowed to have almost any interpretation of Scripture as long as your interpretation does NOT agree with a Catholic interpretation.

So TRUE:juggle:

 

[Singinbeauty]

When arguing with protestant, Catholics never really seem to get any where. So instead of verse slinging and fighting, I thought that I would just ask a few questions.

Fair enough… I will do what I can! Hi by the way!

1. Most Protestants appear to believe that personal interpretation of the Bible is the only true authority. How then can they ever argue that they are correct? After all I am using the same bible, my interpretation should be as good as yours.

But it is not MY interpretation… What I believe comes straight from God Himself through the Holy Spirit… without the HS I would not understand. And what I do have question on I ask someone who has studied the Bible and history for a better view…

1. Protestants often accuse Catholics of using man made traditions. Self-interpretation and sola-scriptura are in and of themselves man-made. We can trace back to history the evolution of these doctorines and their creators.

Ok… But as I said above… the interpretation is not my own. So I guess I don’t perscribe to the ‘personal interpretation’ man-made tradition that you point out above…

1. How do Protestant know that the Bible is the word of God? I assume it is because when they became Christians someone told them that the Bible is the word of God. So in effect, Protestants believe the Bible is the word of God because someone told them it was. They must therefore believe in the authority of another, because I don’t know of any Protestants that compiled their own self bible based on historical evidence alone.

It doesn’t take much to feel God whenever you open those pages. If your heart is softened and you are open to Him you will KNOW that it is the Word of God.

1. How do we know what books should be included in the Bible? Why aren’t the Letter of Clement to the Cor., The Didache, etc. included as they are from the first century and written before some books included in the new testament.

I don’t know… but then I NEVER presume to know the mind of God… He told the catholic church what to add and they did it. Thankfully!

1. Why is 2 Peter and letter to the Hebrews in the Bible. Most scholars agree that 2 Peter wasn’t written by Peter and Hebrews wasn’t written by Paul.

Does that make it untrue? Just because it was attibuted to them doesn’t mean that that makes a difference in the Truth they bring. God wrote all the books, doesn’t matter to me which human He wrote it through…

1. Most Protestant argue that the Holy Spirit guides them in interpretation. How do they know this and How come so many come up with so many wildly different interpretations? Either they Holy Spirit is guiding everyone in a different direction, Only one person has the spirit because I think that most protestants would agree that there is only one Gospel of the Lord, or the Spirit does not guide individuals.

I will be the first to admit that I don’t know EVERYTHING… What I do know is that there are things that we try to close off from God. This brings the different interpretations. We CHOOSE not to believe certain things because they contradict how we want to live our life. Be it pride, selfishness, or whatever… I believe (please don’t flame me!) that the catholic church began to believe things that weren’t believed by the first christians because of the pride that it’s leaders believed at the time.

1. How do Protestants know that Catholics are wrong? We use the Bible and have Traditions (Protestants do too even if the don’t admit it) Should the Catholic Position be just as justified as your own based on you definition of authority. I believe that the Bible says there should be on true Church, with Peter at its head. How can one tell me I am wrong. I am Guided by the Spirit and this is my personal interpretation.

There are things that are not mentioned in any writings by the apostles that suggest certain beliefs (and believe me, I am not going to mention them at this time because I am WAY too tired to get beaten up right now) held by the catholic church.

And there IS One True Church… the Body of Christ! His believers and followers… The gates of Hell shall not prevail against us! Yay! :extrahappy:

 

[Techno2000]

Fair enough… I will do what I can! Hi by the way!

But it is not MY interpretation… What I believe comes straight from God Himself through the Holy Spirit… :

Suicide bombers think they are doing the Lords work too
how do you explain that.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Suicide bombers think they are doing the Lords work too
how do you explain that.

You can only go by what you believe. It saddens me that they think that what they are doing is the Lord’s work but can you convince them otherwise? No.

Remember, not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven…

I can only go by what I believe God is leading me to. I will continuously walk the path that God has set me on and hopefully I will always be open to what He wants according to His perfect will.

 

[Techno2000]

You can only go by what you believe. It saddens me that they think that what they are doing is the Lord’s work but can you convince them otherwise? No.

Remember, not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven…

I can only go by what I believe God is leading me to. I will continuously walk the path that God has set me on and hopefully I will always be open to what He wants according to His perfect will.

WoW you type Fast

 

[Singinbeauty]

WoW you type Fast

 

[PurpleViolets]

Suicide bombers think they are doing the Lords work too
how do you explain that.

If there’s one thing I’ve noticed about humans, it’s that they can convince themselves of lots of things that aren’t necessarily true.

 

[Flying_Bison]

Fair enough… I will do what I can! Hi by the way!

But it is not MY interpretation… What I believe comes straight from God Himself through the Holy Spirit… without the HS I would not understand. And what I do have question on I ask someone who has studied the Bible and history for a better view…

So, what if one has another opinion than yours, is he not lead by the HS. Either there are two different interpretations or the HS doesn’t guide everyone who thinks he does. So, either you have the HS and your interpretation is the ONLY interpretation, because the Spirit does not teach error or your interpretation is not guided by the HS, but rather your own opinions.

Ok… But as I said above… the interpretation is not my own. So I guess I don’t perscribe to the ‘personal interpretation’ man-made tradition that you point out above…

How do protestants who claim to be guided by the HS account for such widely varied interpretation of scripture in Protestantism. Either the HS is teaching each person a different interpretation or the HS really isn’t guiding everyone.

It doesn’t take much to feel God whenever you open those pages. If your heart is softened and you are open to Him you will KNOW that it is the Word of God.

Well, by that criteria the Koran could be the word of God, as could Shapespeare literature or any other book that insipres you.

I don’t know… but then I NEVER presume to know the mind of God… He told the catholic church what to add and they did it. Thankfully!

Yes I would agree that the Spirit does guide the Chuch, but only after lots of discussion on the subject of the cannon and many disagreements. It was not clear cut at all which books were to be added. Additionally, Protestant accept the NT then why not the OT cannon of the Church. It defines logic to say that the HS guided the CC to it decision on the NT, but then did not guide them on choosing the OT.

Does that make it untrue? Just because it was attibuted to them doesn’t mean that that makes a difference in the Truth they bring. God wrote all the books, doesn’t matter to me which human He wrote it through…

This doesn’t really answer the question, Why are some Christians documents accepted and some not. Protestants accept the NT, but can only do so by accepting the authority of the Catholic church, because without the Church they would have no idea what books to include. There is no clear cut way to tell, which early writtings are scriptural and which are not.

I will be the first to admit that I don’t know EVERYTHING… What I do know is that there are things that we try to close off from God. This brings the different interpretations. We CHOOSE not to believe certain things because they contradict how we want to live our life. Be it pride, selfishness, or whatever… I believe (please don’t flame me!) that the catholic church began to believe things that weren’t believed by the first christians because of the pride that it’s leaders believed at the time.

There are things that are not mentioned in any writings by the apostles that suggest certain beliefs (and believe me, I am not going to mention them at this time because I am WAY too tired to get beaten up right now) held by the catholic church.

You are using a presumption that Church teaching that was by mouth is not as important as written teaching. Remember the Only reason we have the bible and know which books are in the bible is based on oral tradition, So to accept the bible one must accept the oral traditions of the Catholic Church. To disregard oral traditions is to disregard the Bible itself.

And there IS One True Church… the Body of Christ! His believers and followers… The gates of Hell shall not prevail against us! Yay! :extrahappy:

That is often said, but it defies logic and the Bible. The body of Christ in the NT was unified. Christians are not unified. Each sect teaches a different Gospel from the Next. Also, in Matthews gospel 18:15-20 Jesus uses the word Church. If the church is every christian and invisible as protestants say the passage makes no sense. If a brother refuses to listen to you tell every single Christian and let them decide about the person. The passage only makes sense if the church is a visible heirarcy. One true Church yes, but Christianity of today is not it. Everbody believes different things. Jesus did not preach multiple different Gospels.

 

[mark_a]

How do Protestants know that Catholics are wrong?

Because their preacher tells them so.

OR

Most people need someone to focus their hatred toward.

Most conservative Protestants are republicans. Therefore they can’t hate President Bush. The only other big dog they can hate is the pope.

If a democrat is elected president, hatred toward the pope will simmer down because Protestants will have a democrat (someone closer to home) to focus their hatred toward.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Because their preacher tells them so.

OR

Most people need someone to focus their hatred toward.

Most conservative Protestants are republicans. Therefore they can’t hate President Bush. The only other big dog they can hate is the pope.

If a democrat is elected president, hatred toward the pope will simmer down because Protestants will have a democrat (someone closer to home) to focus their hatred toward.

Wow… really makes you wonder who hates who…

To think that someone is ‘wrong’ or misguided means you HATE them? And I guess, according to your statement above that protestants can’t think for themselves since they have to be told to think catholics are wrong… is this right? I just want to make sure I have understood you correctly…

 

[mark_a]

Wow… really makes you wonder who hates who…

I don’t hate people because of their religion, but I hate when they want to exclude me from heaven because my religion is not theirs.

To think that someone is ‘wrong’ or misguided means you HATE them?

Hate- as in: opposed to Christian love, lack of esteem, negligence, antipathy, the fall-off of love, not chosen in preference. Hate is not necessarily poking white-hot forks into your “enemy’s” eyeballs.

And I guess, according to your statement above that protestants can’t think for themselves

Wow, that’s a switch.

since they have to be told to think catholics are wrong…

Where else would they get such misinformation as is spread about Catholicism? (well, besides from lots of Catholics, who they wouldn’t listen to anyway, right?)

Very few Catholic-hating Protestants understand what the Catholic Church teaches. Not that understanding would change their minds.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I don’t hate people because of their religion, but I hate when they want to exclude me from heaven because my religion is not theirs.

Same goes for protestants… There are catholics who believe that protestants and all non-catholics will go to Hell… But the reason why I said what I did was because I sense a LOT of venom in your post…

Hate- as in: opposed to Christian love, lack of esteem, negligence, antipathy, the fall-off of love, not chosen in preference. Hate is not necessarily poking white-hot forks into your “enemy’s” eyeballs.

Would you classify me as someone who hates you or catholocism because I don’t agree with it or some of the beliefs held in it? Trust me, no hate here… I have nuttin’ but love for my catholic brothers and sisters… I don’t have to agree with them to get that!

Wow, that’s a switch.

mark a:

Because their preacher tells them so.

A switch from what? You yourself said that we have to be told what to believe didn’t you? You wouldn’t believe that even after being here on this forum for more than a year hasn’t changed my mind about what I disagree with right? No preacher involved in whatever I have known about the catholic church… You can even ask my friends who are catholic…

Where else would they get such misinformation as is spread about Catholicism? (well, besides from lots of Catholics, who they wouldn’t listen to anyway, right?)

There are people on BOTH sides of the fence that misrepresent what catholocism is. Same goes for protestants. You can blame some of your catholic brotheren for some of the miscommunication. Like I said, I have been here for over a year and my mind hasn’t been changed. I am no closer to becoming catholic then the day I first signed on… Do I hate catholics or catholocism? NO of course not. I believe that if it is your path that God wants you on then you need to be there. I believe God has me as a protestant for a reason… What it is, I have an idea but I am not for certain…

Very few Catholic-hating Protestants understand what the Catholic Church teaches. Not that understanding would change their minds.

So you know the mind and the heart of God? Wow… we should get together for coffee some day…

 

[Contarini]

But it is not MY interpretation… What I believe comes straight from God Himself through the Holy Spirit… without the HS I would not understand.

Are you saying that every time you interpret the Bible it comes from the Holy Spirit? That would presumably mean that you have never, ever been wrong in interpreting the Bible.

And what I do have question on I ask someone who has studied the Bible and history for a better view…

Fine, but doesn’t that contradict your claim about the Holy Spirit? And how do you decide between different interpretations by knowledgeable people?

It doesn’t take much to feel God whenever you open those pages. If your heart is softened and you are open to Him you will KNOW that it is the Word of God.

Are you seriously claiming that 1 Chronicles 1 is self-evidently the Word of God?

The point that the Catholics are trying to make is that you accept the Bible as a package. Why? Surely not just because you bought it between two covers from the bookstore.

Does that make it untrue? Just because it was attibuted to them doesn’t mean that that makes a difference in the Truth they bring. God wrote all the books, doesn’t matter to me which human He wrote it through…

Fair enough. But if, as many scholars think, 2 Peter was written well into the 2nd century, then why don’t we also accept other 2nd-century Christian books? What is the criterion by which 2 Peter is canonical and, say, the letters of Ignatius aren’t?

Edwin

 

[dessert]

Same goes for protestants… There are catholics who believe that protestants and all non-catholics will go to Hell… But the reason why I said what I did was because I sense a LOT of venom in your post…
We are all on the Titanic, we just say we will all die once but the soul will live forever and we have the hope of heaven.

Would you classify me as someone who hates you or catholocism because I don’t agree with it or some of the beliefs held in it? Trust me, no hate here… I have nuttin’ but love for my catholic brothers and sisters… I don’t have to agree with them to get that!
Sounds like something that the apostles said occasionly like Thomas?

A switch from what? You yourself said that we have to be told what to believe didn’t you? You wouldn’t believe that even after being here on this forum for more than a year hasn’t changed my mind about what I disagree with right? No preacher involved in whatever I have known about the catholic church… You can even ask my friends who are catholic…
**Just means you are stubborn, surrounded by the truth:thumbsup: but still a spitfire . Would a preacher know about the RCC? I wear my crucifix they duck and run. **

There are people on BOTH sides of the fence that misrepresent what catholocism is. Same goes for protestants. You can blame some of your catholic brotheren for some of the miscommunication. We aren’t trying to blame anyone. Are you feeling guilty about some tad little bit thing? You seem nice!Like I said, I have been here for over a year and my mind hasn’t been changed. :banghead: :dts: I am no closer to becoming catholic then the day I first signed on… so do we LOVE you? Do I hate catholics or catholocism? NO of course not. I believe that if it is your path that God wants you on then you need to be there. I believe God has me as a protestant for a reason… What it is, I have an idea but I am not for certain… I am not sure but will get back to you in another year or sooo… But I am not certain? Maybe When I Grow Up I will know what I want to be!!!

So you know the mind and the heart of God? Wow… we should get together for coffee some day…

Is That With Donuts too?

dessert

“Be Jesus, Share Jesus” Blessed Mother Teresa

 

[mark_a]

Same goes for protestants… There are catholics who believe that protestants and all non-catholics will go to Hell… But the reason why I said what I did was because I sense a LOT of venom in your post…

People from either side of fence with this exclusionary attitude are just awful. I guess I struggle with the venom. It sure ain’t the love of Christ that’s bringing it out. Sorry about that.

Would you classify me as someone who hates you or catholocism because I don’t agree with it or some of the beliefs held in it? Trust me, no hate here… I have nuttin’ but love for my catholic brothers and sisters… I don’t have to agree with them to get that!

Disagreements are fine with me. Its just human nature.

A switch from what?

Catholics are often said to not be able to think for themselves. We’re brainwashed, cultists, etc.

You yourself said that we have to be told what to believe didn’t you?

I was giving my opinion to the op’s question. From the way you describe yourself, most of the op doesn’t apply to you. The op is not painting all Protestants with one stroke of the brush and I was responding to his question.

You wouldn’t believe that even after being here on this forum for more than a year hasn’t changed my mind about what I disagree with right? No preacher involved in whatever I have known about the catholic church… You can even ask my friends who are catholic…

My bad. Mutually respectful disagreements are good for dialog.

So you know the mind and the heart of God?

No. That’s absolutely against the teaching of the Church. Oops!! There I go again, not thinking for myself.

By the way, most of the best Christians I personally know are Protestants, Baptists I believe.

 

[dessert]

You can only go by what you believe. It saddens me that they think that what they are doing is the Lord’s work but can you convince them otherwise? No.

These people are insane like Jim Jones was, leading in the name of God people to their death .

Remember, not everyone who calls Him Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven…

Satan calls God Lord but tries to get us to go against God’s authority against the apostles , those who accept you accept me.

I can only go by what I believe God is leading me to. I will continuously walk the path that God has set me on and hopefully I will always be open to what He wants according to His perfect will.

As the Father sent me I send you.

Are you walking continously in the path of the shadows of the apostles or your Catholic friends or your own shadow?

Dessert

"Guide me by your wisdom, correct me with your justice, comfort me with your mercy, protect me with your power. Pope Clement XI

I want to do what you ask of me; in the way you ask, for as long as you ask, because you ask it. Pope ClementXI