Quick Question on Political vs. Moral Beliefs

[NicholasGH]

So. I really don’t know what my political beliefs are now. I’m a teenager, they change just about as often as the time of day. Regardless, I had a few questions. If I am MORALLY opposed to something, does that neccessarily mean I have to be POLITICALLY opposed to it? For instance, gay marriage. I’m really not sure whether or not it should be allowed politically, but I am very against it morally. I’ll put it this way- if a referendum was issued to the people of the USA about whether or not to allow gay marriage, I’m not sure about how I would vote. However, if a friend told me he was gay, and asked for advice, I would, of course, tell him not to act on his homosexuality, and that he should remain single and chaste.

To put it simply, are Catholics required to support all Catholic doctrine politically?

 

[stringbeanduck]

Your moral views should reflect on to your political views. Meaning, if you are morally opposed to gay “marriage”,then you should be politically against it. Same goes for abortion, and the killing of old people.

 

[NicholasGH]

But is there a Catholic doctrine that supports that?

And I’m very opposed to euthanasia and abortion, and I would be regardless of my religion.

 

[tjm190]

Your moral views should reflect on to your political views. Meaning, if you are morally opposed to gay “marriage”,then you should be politically against it. Same goes for abortion, and the killing of old people.

Not the way I see it- otherwise many of us would be stuck fighting against divorce, fornication, or porn.

You need to ask yourself “do I mind if my government supports/condones this?” rather than “what do I think of this?”

 

[NicholasGH]

Not the way I see it- otherwise many of us would be stuck fighting against divorce, fornication, or porn.

You need to ask yourself “do I mind if my government supports/condones this?” rather than “what do I think of this?”

The other way I see it is that gay marriage is wrong because God says it is. And if a gay couple chooses to get married, it is between them and God, not between them, me, and God.

 

[tjm190]

The other way I see it is that gay marriage is wrong because God says it is. And if a gay couple chooses to get married, it is between them and God, not between them, me, and God.

Agreed. However, since I believe the government has the duty of protecting human life, I believe the government should not avoid that duty on the issue of abortion.

 

[stringbeanduck]

But is there a Catholic doctrine that supports that?

And I’m very opposed to euthanasia and abortion, and I would be regardless of my religion.

To my knowledge I don’t know any specific doctrine that says one must apply moral beliefs to political ones, however if one is morally opposed to certain evils, it is illogical not to apply them politically. For example, I’m against abortion, but voted for candidate X who is for and wants to increase abortion rates. Read this,

caaction.com/pdf/Voters-Guide-Catholic-English-1p.pdf

This article explains how we should apply our Catholic selves in the voting booth.

Not the way I see it- otherwise many of us would be stuck fighting against divorce, fornication, or porn.

You need to ask yourself “do I mind if my government supports/condones this?” rather than “what do I think of this?”

If one thinks to be against something, then they are probably going to mind if the gov supports and condones it.

 

[NicholasGH]

Agreed. However, since I believe the government has the duty of protecting human life, I believe the government should not avoid that duty on the issue of abortion.

Oh, I agree. Abortion is wrong, and that stems from two belief systems of mine: one, obviously, my Catholic Faith. Two, a fetus is a human, and abortion is murder, as it kills a fetus.

 

[DOShea]

Moral beliefs are generally founded upon truth, not truths. That means if abortion is wrong on Monday, it’s wrong on Thursday too. Founding moral beliefs on truths implies that there is more than one truth, or, that truth can be true one time and false the next. That isn’t the definition of truth.

Why do you think abortion is morally wrong? Is it because you view it, in truth, to be the murder of an innocent? If that is true, then on what day of the week is it okay to murder innocents? If you follow this trail of reason, it concludes that you cannot truly hold a moral conviction about any cause and then act in a way that goes against it. In other words, if I say I find abortion morally wrong and then support it, what I am doing is giving lip service to the true meaning of morality. In simpler terms, I cannot hold it morally wrong and then vote for it. If I do, I don’t hold it to be morally wrong.

 

[NicholasGH]

Moral beliefs are generally founded upon truth, not truths. That means if abortion is wrong on Monday, it’s wrong on Thursday too. Founding moral beliefs on truths implies that there is more than one truth, or, that truth can be true one time and false the next. That isn’t the definition of truth.

Why do you think abortion is morally wrong? Is it because you view it, in truth, to be the murder of an innocent? If that is true, then on what day of the week is it okay to murder innocents? If you follow this trail of reason, it concludes that you cannot truly hold a moral conviction about any cause and then act in a way that goes against it. In other words, if I say I find abortion morally wrong and then support it, what I am doing is giving lip service to the true meaning of morality. In simpler terms, I cannot hold it morally wrong and then vote for it.

Yes, that’s true. I always believe abortion is wrong, and not just from a religious standpoint. Since the US government has a separation of Church and State, I can still vote and support that it is immoral, from both the State and the Church sides.

But then does that mean that is impossible for a Catholic to also be a democrat?

 

[stringbeanduck]

Yes, that’s true. I always believe abortion is wrong, and not just from a religious standpoint. Since the US government has a separation of Church and State, I can still vote and support that it is immoral, from both the State and the Church sides.

But then does that mean that is impossible for a Catholic to also be a democrat?

I think Catholics should be Catholics, not republicans or democrats. It’s wrong to support things like gay marriage and abortion, so if being part of a party means that said person supports such evils then a Catholic shouldn’t be part of that party. Granted, whilst my political views which are strongly influenced by my faith tend to side closer to that of a republican, I refuse to bind myself to a party. That way nobody can walk up to me and say, “well look what your party did to the country” or “what about the immorality in your party”.

 

[ljubim]

I think Catholics should be Catholics, not republicans or democrats.

Agreed:thumbsup:

I’m only months away from being 18 and so I know what you mean! It’s really difficult to decide which political agenda you’ll subscribe to, but honestly you shouldn’t have to, and it’s a sad thing that we have such few realistic choices in america.

But you have to think about it: when you die you’re not going to go to america, you’re going to heaven. And so representing Christ in this world, you have the obligation to so so in EVERY WAY possible, including voting. Do you think Jesus would go to the polls, if at all, and vote for something morally repulsive and perverted because it’s supposedly good for the country?

You’re not some robotic judge that must live by the constitution; the whole point of voting is so that the popular opinion of everyday people will be recorded, for reference in the electoral colleges of this country. And so when you vote for a strong proponent of gay marriage, it’s a very official act of compliance.

And so then, if it comes down to the lesser of two evils, you’d be better off not voting, or instead checking off a pre-prepared plan B candidate.

 

[Langdell]

So. I really don’t know what my political beliefs are now. I’m a teenager, they change just about as often as the time of day. Regardless, I had a few questions. If I am MORALLY opposed to something, does that neccessarily mean I have to be POLITICALLY opposed to it? For instance, gay marriage. I’m really not sure whether or not it should be allowed politically, but I am very against it morally. I’ll put it this way- if a referendum was issued to the people of the USA about whether or not to allow gay marriage, I’m not sure about how I would vote. However, if a friend told me he was gay, and asked for advice, I would, of course, tell him not to act on his homosexuality, and that he should remain single and chaste.

To put it simply, are Catholics required to support all Catholic doctrine politically?

Nicholas – About once every four years, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops puts out a detailed statement on citizenship and political participation. It doesn’t tell Catholics whom or what to vote for, but it does discuss the Church’s position on various issues and helps you think through your role in civics.

The latest one can be found here: faithfulcitizenship.org/
.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

**Nicholas,

First, it’s good to see that you are thinking and questioning. Next, I agree with others who have said that your religious beliefs should reflect in your political positions.

At this point, many people claim that ‘separation of church and state’ should be a firewall to prevent religious belief from being codified into law.

Hogwash! The phrase ‘Separation of church and state’ appears nowhere in the Constitution. Read the first amendment. The secular agenda is to drive religious morality from the public square and replace it with a secular humanist moral code.

In truth, every citizen has the right to work within our system of government to effect laws that reflect their value system, regardless of its origens. So your morality should guide your political orientation. The great hypocrisy of Catholic politicians who say that they are personally opposed to abortion, but must as (Governor, Senator, etc.) accept and enforce it, is that they do not work within the system to propose new laws, support legislation or judicial candidates that would abolish this evil in our land.

Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo was famous for this position of inaction on abortion because he “couldn’t impose” his “private morality on the public”. Yet every year, he defied the will of the voters and vetoed a bill calling for reinstatement of the death penalty because he was personally opposed to it.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Though you may not always understand why, stand by the Magisterium. You’ll be a better man for having done so.

God Bless**

 

[Newbie2]

So. I really don’t know what my political beliefs are now. I’m a teenager, they change just about as often as the time of day. Regardless, I had a few questions. If I am MORALLY opposed to something, does that neccessarily mean I have to be POLITICALLY opposed to it? For instance, gay marriage. I’m really not sure whether or not it should be allowed politically, but I am very against it morally. I’ll put it this way- if a referendum was issued to the people of the USA about whether or not to allow gay marriage, I’m not sure about how I would vote. However, if a friend told me he was gay, and asked for advice, I would, of course, tell him not to act on his homosexuality, and that he should remain single and chaste.

To put it simply, are Catholics required to support all Catholic doctrine politically?

I think Catholics should be Catholics, not republicans or democrats. It’s wrong to support things like gay marriage and abortion, so if being part of a party means that said person supports such evils then a Catholic shouldn’t be part of that party. Granted, whilst my political views which are strongly influenced by my faith tend to side closer to that of a republican, I refuse to bind myself to a party. That way nobody can walk up to me and say, “well look what your party did to the country” or “what about the immorality in your party”.

Many times it’s difficult to vote one’s faith, simply because there are hardly if any candidates that run on a strictly Catholic “ticket”. Quite often you’ll have a choice of, say, a liberal democrat who supports abortion yet supports a more Catholic position on social justice running against a republican who opposes abortion but supports a “the single mother chose to have sex and now raising the baby is her problem” slant on social justice.

We are expected as Catholics to look at all the issues, where candidates stand on them and do our best to figure out who will be the better candidate i.e. WWJC (who would Jesus choose? )

To the OP’s question, in a big-picture of society, our laws should reflect our morals. That doesn’t always happen, but let’s say it came to a vote whether or not to allow “Gay Marriage” in your state. If you are morally opposed to it, you would be going against your conscience not to vote against it.

Politics is/are never a simple matter. Do your best to be informed on the issues and the candidates, know you faith, and vote your conscience.

 

[Ender]

I’m only months away from being 18 and so I know what you mean! It’s really difficult to decide which political agenda you’ll subscribe to, but honestly you shouldn’t have to, and it’s a sad thing that we have such few realistic choices in america.

First, it is neither necessary nor appropriate to put into law everything the Church believes is right and moral; the most obvious one being attending Church. The Church believes it to be a mortal sin for a Catholic not to attend Church but has never supported making it legally mandatory. There are a number of such examples.

Second, don’t expect perfect candidates; you will always have to take the bad with the good. This, however, is the real question you will face: how to reconcile supporting someone who advocates practices condemned by the Church? This is why the question continually arises as to whether a Catholic can also be a Democrat - since supporting Democrats usually also means enabling such things as abortion, euthanasia, and same sex marriage. There may be a way to do this but you need to be completely honest with yourself and the arguments you use to convince yourself that such support is appropriate.

And so then, if it comes down to the lesser of two evils, you’d be better off not voting, or instead checking off a pre-prepared plan B candidate.

This is not correct; there is in fact nothing wrong with choosing the lesser of two evils. So long as less evil is preferable to more evil - a point that seems to require no explanation - it will usually be preferable to do the little one can do than to walk away without even trying to make things better.

Ender

 

[Timbothefiveth]

If I am MORALLY opposed to something, does that neccessarily mean I have to be POLITICALLY opposed to it?

In the case of gay marriage it does according to the US council of catholic bishops.

usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf
It says catholics should work to keep the traditional definition of marriage. (Page 35 of 42)

Gay marriage also has some nasty side effects such as shutting down orphanages. boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/06/25/they_cared_for_the_children/

But then does that mean that is impossible for a Catholic to also be a democrat?

Probably not, because there probably are a few pro-life democrats who support the traditional definition of marriage and will vote against pro-abortion suprene court justices. I think that voting for a pro-aobrtion democrat when there is a pro-life alternative is unnacceptable though.

Former New York Governor Mario Cuomo was famous for this position of inaction on abortion because he “couldn’t impose” his “private morality on the public”.

Guess he better take back those laws against theft and murder then.

 

[chain]

We are required to uphold the teachings of the Church. The Church does not usually lay down political policy - but it does give us teaching on social issues. We are required to vote with an informed conscious. Within that that Church helps us to develop an informed conscious.

There are a number of social issues that face us. Within those we need to weigh the candidates to find one that will support the greater good. The USCCB gives us a document that helps point out some of those issues. It has also helped us with the weighing of those, by showing which are underlying issues that are non-negotiable. No combination of any other issues can be more important than a single non-negotiable issues (a foundation is necessary). As such we are obligated to not vote for a candidate that supports a non-negotiable issue.

The non-negotiable issues are abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning and homosexual “marriage”). The USCCB helped to explain why these are non-negotiable - but there are numerous church documents that also explain them in far more detail.

If you have issues with one of these, I suggest doing your best to research the background behind the churches position. I know I have had problems with specific church teaching, only to find as I have looked into it deeper my beliefs were superficial and the churches were a product of generations of thought, prayer, and revelation. Now I try start with the assumption the church is correct, and as I get time I try to discover why. Ultimately this is about “thy will” as opposed to “my will” being done - with the goal to unify the two.

 

[rusty20]

Your moral views should reflect on to your political views. Meaning, if you are morally opposed to gay “marriage”,then you should be politically against it. Same goes for abortion, and the killing of old people.

Not always.

You can think gays marrying is wrong, but be ok with it politically. Who are you to force your own system of morals and values on someone else? Assuming you’re in America, this goes against the very foundations of our nation.

I personally think abortion is something that is wrong both morally and politically, because it harms (read: kills) a human life. The same goes for end of life issues, but I think that is not as strong of an argument politically.

So, I think one can have thier moral beliefs and not exactly want them enforced politcally.

Also…never forget that once you say something should not be allowed politically, you give the government control over something in your life. For instance, if you allow the government to remove porn from culture, religion could be next…

 

[mary_bobo]

Not always.

You can think gays marrying is wrong, but be ok with it politically. Who are you to force your own system of morals and values on someone else? Assuming you’re in America, this goes against the very foundations of our nation.
Then are you saying it is okay with you if gay marriages are allowed by the government? Do you think they are morally alright?

I personally think abortion is something that is wrong both morally and politically, because it harms (read: kills) a human life. The same goes for end of life issues, but I think that is not as strong of an argument politically. Are you saying that euthanasia is okay? Would you not oppose this as a political issue?

So, I think one can have thier moral beliefs and not exactly want them enforced politcally.

Do you then think that murder should be allowed? Murder is both moral and political. I think morals and politics are entertwined.
Also…never forget that once you say something should not be allowed politically, you give the government control over something in your life. For instance, if you allow the government to remove porn from culture, religion could be next…