Quote from LDS about Eternal Progression

[catholic-rcia]

Amgird
As I became Catholic what amazed me the most is that the revelations I received were the same that the first Apostles received regarding God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Along with the understanding of what the body of Christ means, the fall in the garden, grace, hope in Christ, the denying of self in order to be raised in Christ, the healing power of Christ’s Sacraments and the deep rooted love in them for us sinners to find our Creator. I was able to see through these revelations that the Catholic Church is moved by the Holy Spirit, that the LDS church is moved by pride. Not that each and every one of us is not moved by pride, I was just able to witness this in my life and in the life of others. It is in the receiving of the Eucharist that my eyes were opened and my heart was pierced. Without Christ we as Christians would have no hope, he did away with the childish game of my faith is better and bigger than yours. Our Church is a people who come together, knowing that they are sinners, knowing that we battle pride and self pursuit daily. We hand this battle over to Christ, he overcomes it for us because we cannot do it without Him. For us and all orthodox Christians Christ is the one and only eternal Son, there is not one other for us. We clearly see the distinction between Creator and Created, Pride and Humility. What God gives us is a home within the One body of Christ. You see is was God who died for us, whom came to us because He loved us in spite of ourselves and all of our foolishness. We willingly take his hand and it is He through His Eternal Son whom through Him created everything that is , that which has always been loved within the relationship of the Most Holy Trinity, who pulls us up.

God Bless all as we come into the Advent season , preparing for the birth of our Christ.

 

[jim1130]

amgid:

I have addressed this subject before on this board, but you may have missed it; so I will here briefly summarize it for you once more. When Wilford Woodruff made that statement, he did not mean by it to say that the President of the Church is incapable of ever making a mistake in doctrine. What he meant was that the Lord will not allow the president of the Church to willfully (knowingly, intentionally, purposefully) lead the Church astray. There is a big difference between the two. You are ignoring the context in which those remarks were made. They were spoken in conjunction with the polygamy issues that dominated the headlines at that time. Congress had passed a law making polygamy illegal in the US. The Church had issued a formal statement renouncing the practice of polygamy in compliance with the law. There were many faithful LDS at that time who doubted whether this was done out of political expediency rather than by genuine revelation from God. President Woodruff was trying to reassure them that it was done by revelation rather than by expediency. When he had declared to them that he had received a revelation to that effect, he couldn’t exactly be making a mistake about it. He was either lying to them or telling the truth. He was trying to reassure them that he was not in a position to lie about such a thing, and pretend that he had received a revelation from God to do something when in fact he hadn’t. When he had told them that it was the will of God to discontinue the practice, they had better believe that it was the will of God, and not some figment of his own imagination. That is what he meant when he said that the Lord would not allow someone in his position to lead the Church astray. It didn’t mean that the president of the Church is incapable of ever making a mistake in doctrine. Those are two different things.

I am not sure what you mean by that. That is not “the basis of the LDS prophets’ authority”. The basis is that an apostasy occurred of the early Christian Church, and the keys of priesthood authority were lost, which were later restored through Joseph Smith. That is not the same thing as saying that “everyone else messed up”. There were many good and faithful Christians in the world who accomplished a lot of good in the world, and who still do.

Yes, that is correct. That is the claim that the LDS Church makes.

See all of the above.

amgid

What amazes me is that Judaism has continued for thousands of years, but when The Word arrived on earth, to fulfill the promises of the Old Testament prophets, and resurrected, all of his earthly work went kaput shortly thereafter (and Judaism continued onward). So, basically, had The Word not become flesh then we all would have been Jews, there would not have been an apostasy, and Jesus would not have died in vain. Sorry, but I am not buying that at all because to say that there was an apostasy is the same as saying Jesus screwed up big time and made a bigger mess of the entire situation. The LDS position can try to rationalize and justify the apostasy theory all that they want, but to do so dismisses the sacrifice of The Word.

 

[tkdnick]

Here is her response to my question about whether God had to “progress” as well:

"yes, God gained his knowlege in the same way. He had to progress and become a God. This is reveled to us through the prophet Joseph Smith when he said, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!”

 

[Chris-WA]

tkdnick:

Here is her response to my question about whether God had to “progress” as well:

"yes, God gained his knowlege in the same way. He had to progress and become a God. This is reveled to us through the prophet Joseph Smith when he said, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!”

Boy that is scary. It’s also been de-emphasized if not outright denied by modern LDS prophets. To think that God progressed from a human state means that there are an unlimited number of gods above Heavenly Father. This is completely contrary to the true understanding of God as revealed to both Jews and Christians throughout salvation history.

 

[catholic-rcia]

"When I was just twenty it gave me great satisfaction that I managed to read, and understand, the Ten Categories of Aristotle without a teacher. I would mention the book at every opportunity, slipping the title in with a touch of awe, smiling to myself when lecturers would comment how difficult it had been for them to answer it.

And much good it did me! Indeed, it was harmful, because it encouraged me to think of You, O Lord, as if you were part of what youhad made, instead of being its essence and origin. Sadly, I had my back toward the light and my eyes fixed on the darkness. I could understand without difficulty logic, rhetoric, geometry, music, and arithmetic, but I did not see that my intelligence itself was a gift of God and that all the true things I learned came from him, their source. What advantage was it to me that I had a nimble wit when all the while I turned from good and clung to evil? Little did I realize then how much better off were all those (as I saw them) “simple” souls who lacked my native intelligence but put their trust in God"

…Saint Augustine

ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/augustine.html

 

[tkdnick]

Chris-WA:

Boy that is scary. It’s also been de-emphasized if not outright denied by modern LDS prophets. To think that God progressed from a human state means that there are an unlimited number of gods above Heavenly Father. This is completely contrary to the true understanding of God as revealed to both Jews and Christians throughout salvation history.

No kidding! Scary to me too to think that if it’s true, then really we’re just worshipping someone like us who happened to live before us and live a “right” life.