Quran alone?

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Cyber_Knight

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This thread is not for debate. I would appreciate much if Muslim fellows like Gonzales, Alison, Faith, etc could share their views regarding Edip Yuksel, the founder of 19.ORG he claims to be a muslim, not a sunni or shiite mushrik(that what he said). From what I understand, he is using Quran alone without rely to the hadith or sira. He claims to be the islamic reformer. My question is what you guys think about him and his site www.yuksel.org? Is he against the true teaching of Islam? How does Islamic leader(sunni) see this diasphora in Islam when people come up with new idea. Thanks.
 
Cyber Knight:
This thread is not for debate. I would appreciate much if Muslim fellows like Gonzales, Alison, Faith, etc could share their views regarding Edip Yuksel, the founder of 19.ORG he claims to be a muslim, not a sunni or shiite mushrik(that what he said). From what I understand, he is using Quran alone without rely to the hadith or sira. He claims to be the islamic reformer. My question is what you guys think about him and his site www.yuksel.org? Is he against the true teaching of Islam? How does Islamic leader(sunni) see this diasphora in Islam when people come up with new idea. Thanks.
I havent gone through the site…but from you said:

ppl are coming up with new ideas all the time. The thing is Islam does not need a reformer…its perfect as it is.

As for following the Quran and ignoring the sira…thats pretty silly. They go hand in hand. For example Allah tells us that if we love Him, we should follow the messenger. But then the Quran is not a biography on how Mohamed peace be upon him, lived his life. How can we follow someone we dont know anything about?

Allah tells us that Mohamed, peace be upon him, does not speak according to his own desire, but that it is divine inspiration.

This guy will come and go, like they all do. InshAllah the people who are on the straight path will prevail.
 
Cyber Knight:
the founder of 19.ORG he claims to be a muslim, not a sunni or shiite mushrik(that what he said). From what I understand, he is using Quran alone without rely to the hadith or sira. He claims to be the islamic reformer.
Salaam Brother Cyber;
I should say that only Allah (SWT) knows the true intent of people.
If M. Yuksel is using the Qur’an alone, at leat it means he believes the Qur’an to be the word of Allah (SWT).
In the Qur’an, Allah (SWT) prescribed on us the obligatory prayers, the fasting, the piligrimage, etc, without giving the details on how this rituals should be performed; those details were all given by his messenger (PBUH) and are recorded in the Sunna.
If M. Yuksel rejects the Sunna, I don’t know how he can complete his religious duties!

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
i’ve seen that guy’s site once before when i first accepted islam. and presently going over his arguments for why all hadeeths should be discarded and erased i can say that he shows a great deal about his ignorance regarding the Quran, let alone islam itself and the branches of knowledge connected with it. he argues that, “if any book contains a few lies (which we have more than just ‘few’ examples), then, the endorsement of that book is not reliable. if you see dozens of repeated fabrications introduced as trustworthy (sahih) hadith, then, how can you still rely on other narration of the same book?” firstly, i’d like to see some of his examples of fabricated hadeeths introduced as saheeh. secondly, he really betrays his ignorance here regarding the hadeeth books and collections and the reasons behind their compilation and writing.

he goes on the premise that all hadeeth books were compiled with the intent of only preserving authentic (which is the correct translation for the word “saheeh”), or what he calls “trustworthy”, hadeeths. and while this may have been the intent behind collections like al-jaami’ as-saheeh by muhammad bin ismaa’eel al-bukhaaree and the saheeh compiled by muslim bin al-hajjaaj an-neesaabooree, other collections did not have this exact same intent behind their compilations.

for example, one of the collections included in the “six authentic books”, the book compiled by the imam aboo daawud as-sijjistaanee commonly referred to as sunan abee daawud; this book was compiled with the intent of collecting the most correct/authentic narrations in the various jurisprudential issues he touched on in his book. and by “correct” and “authentic” it is meant relative to the narrations and hadeeths available regarding any one topic or issue. so aboo daawud purposely included a weak narration in a particular chapter of his book because out of all the narrations and hadeeths available on that topic, those he chose to include under that issue were the most authentic or most correct narrations available.

the imam aboo 'eesaa at-tirmidhee, whose book, as-sunan, also contains weak narrations and hadeeths was written with a particular purpose and intent. and as at-tirmidhee himself states in the last book of his compilation, with the exeption of two hadeeths, “all of what this book contains is acted by.” meaning, every hadeeth he chose to include in his sunan is a hadeeth that has been used as proof or supporting evidence for a particular matter or issue in islamic jurisprudence – whether the hadeeth is a proof for the matter itself, or is used as a supporting evidence for other hadeeths in a specific issue - and is acted upon.

there are yet other compilations that were made with the purpose of recording everything (authentic or weak) that has been narrated by a particular narrator or scholar of hadeeth or that has been narrated regarding a particular issue or topic. there are yet other compilations which were made in order to record weak and fabricated hadeeths only. all of this was done for the purpose of analysis and study; so that judgements could be made on various narrators and their reliabilities, their trustworthiness, their precision and competence in narrating hadeeth (i.e., did they narrate word for word or by meaning? did they mix up their narrations or make mistakes? etc.).

con’t…
 
yuksel also argues, “if the signature of narrators (sanad) cannot provide authenticity about the source of hadith, then, our only guide to decide on the content of hadiths (matn) will be our personal wish or our current inclinations. how can we decide which hadith has a merit? how can we decide which hadiths is accurate? we may say ‘by comparing them with the Quran!’” he again betrays his ignorance with regards to this islamic branch of knowledge concerning hadeeths. there are two main considerations when judging the authenticity or weakness of a hadeeth. the first is its sanad; its chain of transmission from the one who originally uttered the report to the one who finally recorded it in his book. this consideration determines the validity of the source. the second consideration is the matn (text); its main body and the content of the report. this consideration doesn’t determine the validity of its source, but rather the validity of what’s being reported. there are many narrations that have weak chains of narration, but contain correct information. such narrations can be strengthened by bringing other narrations similar to it conveying the same information as support.

as for how we determine which hadeeths have merit and which don’t, then that is where the islamic “sciences of hadeeth and their narrators” come in. for one to determine for himself which hadeeths are authentic and which ones are weak, he must first study the sciences related to hadeeth and its narrators, starting with the books of mustalah (terminologies) which contain the definitions used by the scholars of this field. there are also the many books of biographies that one must refer to to become acquainted with the various narrators of hadeeth; where and when they were born, who their teachers were (i.e., who they narrated from), who their students were (i.e., who narrated from them), whether they wrote their narrations down or memorised them, whether they made mistakes or used to forget certain details in the hadeeths they would narrate, whether they had any heretic beliefs or were known to lie or were accused of lying. then of course, there are the many, many compilations and collections of hadeeths that one needs to be familiar with to compare various narrations from certain narrators in order to study their tendancies and habits in narrating (i.e., did they narrate from meaning or word for word), did they narrate bits and parts of certain hadeeths to some and the complete versions to others and other such things. if one is not able to study these sciences extensively to get familiar with narrations and those who narrated them, then one must rely upon the judgements of qualified scholars who have done this, just as Allah has commanded the muslims in the Quran, “then ask the people of the remembrance if you do not know,” meaning, ask the people of knowledge, the scholars if you don’t know.

as for the assertion that the Quran is all we need, then this is refuted by the Quran itself, which also directs us to the sunnah (the way and teachings) of prophet muhammad, which is derived from the collective body that what is known as hadeeth. Allah says, “and whatever the messenger gave you then take it, and whatever he prohibited you from then obstain.” He also says, “your companion (i.e., muhammad) has not strayed, nor erred and he does not speak from desire. surely, it is but revelation revealed.” He also says, “and certainly there has been a good example for you in Allah’s messenger for whoever hopes for Allah and the Last Day and remembered Allah much.” as well as, “We sent to you a messenger amongst you reciting to you Our verses, purifying you and teaching you the Book (i.e., the Quran) and the wisdom (i.e., the sunnah) and teaching you what you did not know.”

there are many other verses that are evidence for the obligation of following the sunnah of prophet muhammad but this should suffice.
 
Faith, Gonzales, Alison thanks for all your opinion! 👍

I myself believe the hadith and sira are much important as supporting documents for the Quran.
 
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