Qur'anic Straw Men About The Trinity & Christians?

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[Sura 4:171] O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

[Sura 5:73] They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

[Sura 5:116] And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?

[Sura 6:101] The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?

[Sura 72:3] And (we believe) that He - exalted be the glory of our Lord! - hath taken neither wife nor son,

[Sura 5:17] They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah’s is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.

This is not even close to refuting the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. If these verses were attempting to refute the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and it is highly likely that they were, these verses are classic examples of the ‘straw man’ logical fallacy.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of “reasoning” has the following pattern:
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  1. Person A has position X.
  2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
  3. Person B attacks position Y.
  4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
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This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself.
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nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html
“Straw man” is one of the best-named fallacies, because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy. Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched.’
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fallacyfiles.org/strawman.html

Christians do not believe that there are three Gods with two Gods beside God. This is tritheism. Christians are not tritheists.

The Qur’an denounces the “tritheistic” group of “Allah, Jesus and Mary” [Sura 5:116], but the Trinity consists of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

We believe in One God in three Persons.

The Qur’an accuses Christians of saying “Allah is the third OF three” [Sura 5:73], but Christians say that “God is one IN three” (see catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp ) There is an important difference between OF and IN.

Christians do not believe that Mary and Jesus are Gods beside God. Christians do not believe Mary is God.

Also, Christians do not say God is the Messiah (as Sura 5:17 claims [see above]), but that the Messiah is God. There is an important difference between them answering-islam.org/Quran/Tafsir/005.072.html

Since God is Omniscient, don’t these verses prove that the author of the Quran is not God?
 
Regarding [Sura 6:101] The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?

Read the following by Lactantius (260-340 A.D.), a Christian apologist of the fourth century

“He who hears the Son of God mentioned ought not to conceive in his mind so great impiety as to think that God begat Him by marriage and union with a woman…
In what manner, then, did He beget Him? First of all, divine operations cannot be known or declared by any one; but nevertheless the sacred writings teach us, in which it is laid down that this Son of God is the speech, or even the reason of God…
With good reason, therefore, is He called the Speech and the Word of God, because God, by a certain incomprehensible energy and power of His majesty, enclosed the vocal spirit proceeding from His mouth, which he had not conceived in the womb, but in His mind…
**John also thus taught: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made.”**But the Greeks speak of Him as the Logos, more befittingly than we do as the word, or speech: for Logos signifies both speech and reason, inasmuch as He is both the voice and the wisdom of God…”
( Lactantius (260-340 A.D.), Divine Institutes, Book IV newadvent.org/fathers/07014.htm )

See newadvent.org/cathen/08736a.htm for info on Lactantius
 
You’re right, but many people would rather take any cheap shot they think they can get rather than accept the facts for what they are. Some Muslims may acknowledge this error, but don’t hold your breath.
 
DiscipleofJesus,

Wow! Great post! This will come in handy in a myriad of different arenas! Thanks for posting this!
 
George Waters:
DiscipleofJesus,

Wow! Great post! This will come in handy in a myriad of different arenas! Thanks for posting this!
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It’s nice to know that it’s appreciated 🙂
 
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discipleofJesus:
It’s nice to know that it’s appreciated 🙂
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That’s why this religion contains truth in it. right doj 😉
 
Cyber Knight:
That’s why this religion contains truth in it. right doj 😉
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You mean Christianity? Christianity contains the truth with no error at all 👍
 
Since God is Omniscient, don’t these verses prove that the author of the Quran is not God?
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That is THE question that our Muslim visitors have yet to answer, isn’t it? 🙂 Surely if the Trinity is an erroneous belief and the Quran is His word, then God would be able to give an accurate account of just what the erroneous belief is.

Thanks for the excellent posts, DoJ - definite keepers. 👍
 
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discipleofJesus:
Christians do not believe that there are three Gods with two Gods beside God. This is tritheism. Christians are not tritheists.

The Qur’an denounces the “tritheistic” group of “Allah, Jesus and Mary” [Sura 5:116], but the Trinity consists of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

We believe in One God in three Persons.

The Qur’an accuses Christians of saying “Allah is the third OF three” [Sura 5:73], but Christians say that “God is one IN three” (see catholic.com/library/God_in_Three_Persons.asp ) There is an important difference between OF and IN.

Christians do not believe that Mary and Jesus are Gods beside God. Christians do not believe Mary is God.

Also, Christians do not say God is the Messiah (as Sura 5:17 claims [see above]), but that the Messiah is God. There is an important difference between them answering-islam.org/Quran/Tafsir/005.072.html

Since God is Omniscient, don’t these verses prove that the author of the Quran is not God?
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Hey, I’m a Muslim and will reply to your post.

Yes, you are correct. We say that you have 3 gods not 3 in 1.

Tell me plz, what is the difference between 3 separate gods and 3 persons in one god?! Isnt it the same?!

Many Christians dont understand the trinity! It is not logical.
Whether there are just one God (as we say) or 3, but how 3=1?!

And what for?! If God is ONE why He made other hypostases with Him? The HS was processed from the father and the father begot the son, isnt that what you say? Then why?
 
Hey PPatience,

Before I respond to what you wrote, let me just say, your description of the Trinity is inaccurate and contains errors.
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PPatience:
Hey, I’m a Muslim and will reply to your post.

Yes, you are correct. We say that you have 3 gods not 3 in 1.
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You mean Muslims say we believe in 3 gods and not one God in three Persons?

Well if that’s the case, then Muslims are wrong because we do not believe in 3 gods.
Tritheists believe in 3 gods, Christians are not tritheists. We believe in one God in three Persons.
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PPatience:
Tell me plz, what is the difference between 3 separate gods and 3 persons in one god?! Isnt it the same?!
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No it is not the same! Completely different!

That’s like saying
“what is the difference between 2 separate suns and 1 sun that that gives out light and heat? Isn’t saying there is 1 sun that gives out light and heat the same as saying there are 2 seperate suns?”
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PPatience:
Many Christians dont understand the trinity! It is not logical.
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It is logical.
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PPatience:
Whether there are just one God (as we say) or 3, but how 3=1?!
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There is one God.

Who said 3 = 1?

1x1x1=1 (one God in three Persons)
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PPatience:
And what for?! If God is ONE why He made other hypostases with Him?
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Again not even close to what the Trinity is! God didn’t make other Hypostases (Persons) with Him. God has always existed as 3 Hypostases. There was never a time when one of the Hypostases didn’t exist. God has always existed as 3 Hypostases, no more, no less.
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PPatience:
The HS was processed from the father and the father begot the son, isnt that what you say? Then why?
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Your description is inaccurate. The Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father.

Now let’s get back to my points.

Christians do not believe that Mary and Jesus are Gods beside God. Christians do not believe Mary is God.

Christians do not believe that there are three Gods with two Gods beside God. This is tritheism. Christians are not tritheists.

The Qur’an denounces the “tritheistic” group of “Allah, Jesus and Mary” [Sura 5:116], but the Trinity consists of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

We believe in One God in three Persons.

It is clearly implied in the Quran that Christians “believe” that there are three gods with two gods (Jesus and Mary) beside Allah.

But this is not what Christians believe.

Since God is Omniscient, don’t these verses (quoted in post #1)prove that the author of the Quran is not God?
 
This debate reminds me of the one Christians have been having with HIndus. Many Christians say Hindus are polytheists; Hindus, of course, say that they believe in one supreme being (nirguna), who manifests in many forms, as many persons (saguna). From the Hindu perspective, Hindus are “monotheist”; from the perspective of many Christians, Hindus are – no matter what the Hindus say – “polytheists”.

In both cases, Hindus-and-Christians, or Christians-and-Muslims, I think it’s important to define terms. It seems that for Muslims, the very definition of “God” excludes God having more than one “person”. But for Christians, the definition of “God” means one substance, with three persons. So, we simply have two religious traditions defining God in two different ways. From the Qur’an’s perspective, Christianity’s definition is inadequate; from Christianity’s definition, the Qur’an’s definition is inadequate.

Oh well, time to chop wood, carry water.😃
 
Yes, you are correct. We say that you have 3 gods not 3 in 1.
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other muslims would love to read this; here is an arabic speaking person saying that his arabic quran says we believe in 3 gods…3 full stop ! nop! 3 gods. So either the quran indeed says this, or allah failed to explain the trinity.
Tell me plz, what is the difference between 3 separate gods and 3 persons in one god?! Isnt it the same?!
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the difference is that the first is Tritheism whereas the second is Monotheism!!
 
Islam is monopersonistic monotheism: one person, one substance.

Christianity is tripersonistic monotheism: three persons, one substance.
 
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Ahimsa:
Islam is monopersonistic monotheism: one person, one substance.

Christianity is tripersonistic monotheism: three persons, one substance.
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and what is God to hindu?
 
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inJESUS:
and what is God to hindu?
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It depends on the Hindu you’re talking to. But, if you ask for my own position, I have to say that God is ultimately beyond speech. Of course, many Muslims and Christians would agree with me here.👋
 
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Ahimsa:
It depends on the Hindu you’re talking to. But, if you ask for my own position, I have to say that God is ultimately beyond speech. (Of course, many Muslims and Christians would agree with me here.👋)
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yes but what do you consider God? 1 or million or what?
or maybe you dont know?
 
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inJESUS:
yes but what do you consider God? 1 or million or what?
or maybe you dont know?
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Oh, you want a number?

The number would be one, of course.😃
 
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