R.C.I.A. and Contraception

[SHAKA_MAKA1]

Just wanted to get a few opinions on a thought that occured to me at R.C.I.A. the other day… Taking in the fact that at Easter Vigil the R.C.I.A. group with have to read the statement (at our parish the priest has them read this instead of the priest reading it and them saying, I do) I believe EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches as revealed to it by God. Over the past months listening to the group I can say for pretty sure that all 20 or so in the group don’t believe and will continue to use contraception after becoming Catholic. Then, after talking to others in other parishes they feel the same about their groups. Then it dawned on me this could be going on all over the United States. Now for the questions… What percentage do you think are becoming Catholic each year and yet will not follow this teaching? Aren’t they lieing to God by reading that statement at Easter Vigil? Shouldn’t the priest advice and maybe even deny them entrance if he knows this (to keep them from lieing to God by saying the above statement)? NFP is now being taught in marriage prep in some diocese, shouldn’t the teachings on contraception be mandatory at R.C.I. A. classes and the statement this is not a voluntary teaching, you must not use it in order to recieve communion. Remember this is an act that is intrinsicly evil.

 

[barryschoedel]

Just wanted to get a few opinions on a thought that occured to me at R.C.I.A. the other day… Taking in the fact that at Easter Vigil the R.C.I.A. group with have to read the statement (at our parish the priest has them read this instead of the priest reading it and them saying, I do) I believe EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches as revealed to it by God. Over the past months listening to the group I can say for pretty sure that all 20 or so in the group don’t believe and will continue to use contraception after becoming Catholic. Then, after talking to others in other parishes they feel the same about their groups. Then it dawned on me this could be going on all over the United States. Now for the questions… What percentage do you think are becoming Catholic each year and yet will not follow this teaching? Aren’t they lieing to God by reading that statement at Easter Vigil? Shouldn’t the priest advice and maybe even deny them entrance if he knows this (to keep them from lieing to God by saying the above statement)? NFP is now being taught in marriage prep in some diocese, shouldn’t the teachings on contraception be mandatory at R.C.I. A. classes and the statement this is not a voluntary teaching, you must not use it in order to recieve communion. Remember this is an act that is intrinsicly evil.

This is an interesting question because it is as much of a question of catechesis as anything else. If our position on contraception is true and reasonable, which I believe it is, then it would seem natural to assent to it. But, there are two things at play. First, the catechists may lack the ability to do justice to the teaching and Second, the catechumens and candidates personally may still be blinded by sin, particularly because they haven’t received the sacraments and are either not ever baptized or not in full communion.

So, on one hand you can hope that with grace their obedience to Christ and his Church will deepen, but on the other hand there is the concern that they will think that this teaching is unimportant or that it is optional.

Three things are needed then: 1) Better catechesis 2) Ongoing formation after initiation 3) Trust in the power of God’s grace to transform their hearts.

Speaking from experience, being a convert, there were teachings initially I was resistant to but I nevertheless assented to. In doing that and by living a sacramental life and growing in purity I was able to more deeply obey what it was that God was asking of me.

Please review this link and order some of these materials for your group even if you have to use your own money:

usccb.org/prolife/materials/birthcontrol.shtml

 

[SHAKA_MAKA1]

But if they don’t believe it, it dosen’t matter how much teaching they receive, they still will be lieing with the statement they have to read (if they know the church teaches this is wrong). Also when they receive communion with their Amen aren’t they saying Amen to everything about the church?

 

[1ke]

Yes, they would be lieing and yes they would be sinning (if done with full knowledge and free will).

I don’t know why anyone would join the Catholic Church while not embracing the Truth or planning to disregard her teachings. I am sure it happens.

That is between them and God on judgment day, ultimately. We cannot know their interior disposition, their level of invincible ignorance on the matter due to malformed conscience, poor catechesis, etc.

If they freely decide to enter the Church after receiving her teachings, presented faithfully, then hopefully they will adhere to Her teachings or continue to grow in understanding and embrace the teachings fully.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Just wanted to get a few opinions on a thought that occured to me at R.C.I.A. the other day… Taking in the fact that at Easter Vigil the R.C.I.A. group with have to read the statement (at our parish the priest has them read this instead of the priest reading it and them saying, I do) I believe EVERYTHING the Catholic Church teaches as revealed to it by God. Over the past months listening to the group I can say for pretty sure that all 20 or so in the group don’t believe and will continue to use contraception after becoming Catholic. Then, after talking to others in other parishes they feel the same about their groups. Then it dawned on me this could be going on all over the United States. Now for the questions… What percentage do you think are becoming Catholic each year and yet will not follow this teaching? Aren’t they lieing to God by reading that statement at Easter Vigil? Shouldn’t the priest advice and maybe even deny them entrance if he knows this (to keep them from lieing to God by saying the above statement)? NFP is now being taught in marriage prep in some diocese, shouldn’t the teachings on contraception be mandatory at R.C.I. A. classes and the statement this is not a voluntary teaching, you must not use it in order to recieve communion. Remember this is an act that is intrinsicly evil.

What %? About 60% We covered Moral teachings and Marriage with much detail and explaination. We have had several seek instruction on NFP. Several with new babies in the first year of being Catholic.
Are they attempting to pull one over on God? Sure! Do believe that God does not know this? How clear do you make the teaching on ABC? Do you give them a copy of the Catechism and show them how to find these teachings in it? Do you give then a copy of HV by Paul VI? Do you stress the necessity of going to Confession and asking forgiveness of sins and the need for true intent not to commit these sins again, before receiving the Sacraments at Easter Vigil?

 

[barryschoedel]

But if they don’t believe it, it dosen’t matter how much teaching they receive, they still will be lieing with the statement they have to read (if they know the church teaches this is wrong). Also when they receive communion with their Amen aren’t they saying Amen to everything about the church?

I think your point is a good one. That is why I would do everything I can to catechize them properly, and perhaps you could raise your concern with the priest.

It would be great if you had a couple who had at one time practiced contraception and then converted or reverted to the faith and embraced the Church’s teachings so that they could give personal testimony to the truth. Sometimes this is very effective.

But, if at the point before their baptism or confirmation they are still not at the point where they can say honestly that they believe all that the Church teaches then they should probably be asked to wait to enter the Church. Of course this is the responsibility of the Priest though, the primary catechist of the parish.

Interestingly though, for instance, my girlfriend, a recent convert doesn’t fully understand the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts. She has come a long way since being baptized and confirmed last year, but she still doesn’t fully understand the teaching. But thanks be to God she has a young, orthodox, pastor who teaches the truth. And she is growing in relationship to God,coming closer to him, and thus coming closer to the truth. Was she lying when she said that she believes everything the Church teaches. I don’t think so. I believe that she truly desired to understand everything that the Church teaches but 7 months or so wasn’t enough to fully impart the faith and for her to comprehend all of its teachings. Should RCIA be longer then? I don’t know, because we believe that the sacraments bring grace, dispel darkness, wipe out sin, etc. Certainly though if a person openly objects to teachings of the Church, they shouldn’t be initiated.

Those are just my thoughts, I am not an expert. It would be interesting to see some authoritative teachings on this.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I think your point is a good one. That is why I would do everything I can to catechize them properly, and perhaps you could raise your concern with the priest.

It would be great if you had a couple who had at one time practiced contraception and then converted or reverted to the faith and embraced the Church’s teachings so that they could give personal testimony to the truth. Sometimes this is very effective.

But, if at the point before their baptism or confirmation they are still not at the point where they can say honestly that they believe all that the Church teaches then they should probably be asked to wait to enter the Church. Of course this is the responsibility of the Priest though, the primary catechist of the parish.

Interestingly though, for instance, my girlfriend, a recent convert doesn’t fully understand the Church’s teaching on homosexual acts. She has come a long way since being baptized and confirmed last year, but she still doesn’t fully understand the teaching. But thanks be to God she has a young, orthodox, pastor who teaches the truth. And she is growing in relationship to God,coming closer to him, and thus coming closer to the truth. Was she lying when she said that she believes everything the Church teaches. I don’t think so. I believe that she truly desired to understand everything that the Church teaches but 7 months or so wasn’t enough to fully impart the faith and for her to comprehend all of its teachings. Should RCIA be longer then? I don’t know, because we believe that the sacraments bring grace, dispel darkness, wipe out sin, etc. Certainly though if a person openly objects to teachings of the Church, they shouldn’t be initiated.

Those are just my thoughts, I am not an expert. It would be interesting to see some authoritative teachings on this.

RCIA should be as long as necessary. There should be no artificial timeline of 7 or 9 or 12 months. Candidates can be received at any time during the year and do not need to be received as a group. The Candidate, Sponsor, and the RCIA team determines if a person is ready to be received and make their recomendation to the Pastor when they are ready.

 

[Sillara]

Also, there is a difference between “not believing” while continuing in the sin and “not understanding” but accepting.

For example, if I did not understand the Church’s teaching on contraception (as in, I knew that the Church said no, but I did not understand the reasoning behind it), I could still get up and vow obedience as long as I am obeying! I do not have to understand; with time and effort, understanding will come. I have to assent, to admit that, by becoming Catholic, I am admitting that on matters where the Church and I differ, the Church is right. I am wrong, and it is my job either to understand why.

On the other hand, if I do not intend to obey the Church’s teaching, whether I understand the reasoning behind it or not becomes moot. I should NOT be making that vow.

 

[barryschoedel]

RCIA should be as long as necessary. There should be no artificial timeline of 7 or 9 or 12 months. Candidates can be received at any time during the year and do not need to be received as a group. The Candidate, Sponsor, and the RCIA team determines if a person is ready to be received and make their recomendation to the Pastor when they are ready.

I agree Br. Rich. Unfortunately, I think because of lack of resources, knowledge, etc it gets rushed and there isn’t enough personal attention (and that is why there is such high ‘attrition rate’ after initiation). I was a catechumen for almost three years. It took me that long. Some it takes much longer. I was in a few different RCIA programs, from decent to terrible. Another problem is sometimes the catechists themselves are not obedient. I think the RCIA is a great model, but it is still fledgling.

 

[AngelaBarbara]

My husband and I used ABC for 13 years, and changed our behavior after I decided to become a Catholic. I just couldn’t square joining a church if I was not in conformity with its teachings. I did not want to be a “cafeteria Catholic,” as it seemed very hypocritical to say one thing and do another, or receive Communion knowing I wasn’t in communion with the Church and its teachings. Maybe that seems a little old-fashioned, but that’s how I feel.

I got a little computer called a LadyComp (you can google this) to help with knowing when I am fertile, so we can avoid relations during this time.

The website onemoresoul.com has a good audio lecture that you can download to understand a Catholic perspective regarding contraception. I highly recommend it. It can be found at the upper left corner of their home page.

Whatever else one might believe about contraception, it is undeniable that the use of artificial birth control (ABC) has coincided with a rise in promiscuity, pregnancy out of wedlock, and a general decline in moral values. Women are valued now for being “hot” instead of for their character and beauty. And many women encourage this by being “easy” which would not be possible without ABC. I wonder sometimes if the moral depravity in our culture could get any worse, and I’m not even prudish. It’s just kind of sad how it seems like everything boils down to sex, sex, sex.

Sorry to be preachy…I’m just discouraged…

 

[barryschoedel]

My husband and I used ABC for 13 years, and changed our behavior after I decided to become a Catholic. I just couldn’t square joining a church if I was not in conformity with its teachings. I did not want to be a “cafeteria Catholic,” as it seemed very hypocritical to say one thing and do another, or receive Communion knowing I wasn’t in communion with the Church and its teachings. Maybe that seems a little old-fashioned, but that’s how I feel.

I got a little computer called a LadyComp (you can google this) to help with knowing when I am fertile, so we can avoid relations during this time.

The website onemoresoul.com has a good audio lecture that you can download to understand a Catholic perspective regarding contraception. I highly recommend it. It can be found at the upper left corner of their home page.

Whatever else one might believe about contraception, it is undeniable that the use of artificial birth control (ABC) has coincided with a rise in promiscuity, pregnancy out of wedlock, and a general decline in moral values. Women are valued now for being “hot” instead of for their character and beauty. And many women encourage this by being “easy” which would not be possible without ABC. I wonder sometimes if the moral depravity in our culture could get any worse, and I’m not even prudish. It’s just kind of sad how it seems like everything boils down to sex, sex, sex.

Sorry to be preachy…I’m just discouraged…

Hi Angelabarbara. I liked how you connected the rise in promiscuity with the reality that with ABC men and women seem to escape the immediate consequences of sexual relations. I don’t think you are being preachy, just being honest.

One thing I wondered though. Is NFP approved by the Church as a way of avoiding pregnancy? This I am unsure of.

 

[barryschoedel]

I was able to answer my own question from a document on the USCCB website.

"If, then, there are serious motives to space out births, which derive from the physical or
psychological conditions of husband and wife, or from external conditions, the Church
teaches that it is then licit to take into account the natural rhythms immanent in the
generative functions, for the use of marriage in the in fecund periods only, and in this
way to regulate birth earlier. "(HV, #16)

"A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of births. For just
reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make
certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the
generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their
behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible
transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere
intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective
criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, and human
procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married
chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart."(Catechism, 2368)

 

[Rogerteder]

But if they don’t believe it, it dosen’t matter how much teaching they receive, they still will be lieing with the statement they have to read (if they know the church teaches this is wrong). Also when they receive communion with their Amen aren’t they saying Amen to everything about the church?

How do you know they don’t believe it? Did they state they don’t believe it?