Rabbinical Prayer for Catholic--Is this Permissible?

[meltzerboy]

I was wondering whether it is permissible for a rabbi to pray for the health of a Catholic who is ill according to the teachings of Catholicism? The reverse took place many years ago when my mother (who was Jewish) was dying of cancer in the hospital and a kindly priest offered to pray for her recovery. Our family accepted his prayers with gratitude even though we were not certain it is permissible in Judaism. (We are Reform Jews, not Orthodox.) When he prayed for my mother, however, he avoided using the name of Jesus and substituted the G-d of Abraham. She eventually died from the disease but did have an unexpected remission period.

 

[momor]

I was wondering whether it is permissible for a rabbi to pray for the health of a Catholic who is ill according to the teachings of Catholicism? The reverse took place many years ago when my mother (who was Jewish) was dying of cancer in the hospital and a kindly priest offered to pray for her recovery. Our family accepted his prayers with gratitude even though we were not certain it is permissible in Judaism. (We are Reform Jews, not Orthodox.) When he prayed for my mother, however, he avoided using the name of Jesus and substituted the G-d of Abraham. She eventually died from the disease but did have an unexpected remission period.

Absolutely. We are praying to the same God. I’d be thrilled to have a rabbi pray for me, especially in Hebrew.

 

[SouthpawLink]

I’m not sure that the priest was right to omit the truth that God is triune while praying for your mother. It may have been a nice sentiment, but it also very well could have been a sin against faith on the part of the priest.

I suppose rabbis may pray for the health of a Catholic, but I don’t think it should be done in front of her, or at least, it should not be expected that other Catholics join in such a prayer because there is at least a possibility for an implicit denial of the Holy Trinity (a Catholic cannot think, “Oh, it doesn’t matter how or in what way we worship God, and it doesn’t matter what we call Him”). Historically, the Church has been very strict about Catholics worshipping with non-Catholics (and vice versa). Private prayer between different Christians has been allowed, provided there is nothing heretical (i.e. erroneous doctrine) in the prayers. Prayer between Catholics and Jews presents a much bigger problem because Jews deny the divinity of Christ and the revelation of God in three Persons. We are to pray “through Christ our Lord” or “in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,” so we cannot truly pray with Jews. Our differences in belief are greater than some people would like to admit (including our Catholic prelates).

The rabbi should pray privately for the Catholic. I hope my advice has been helpful.

 

[meltzerboy]

Absolutely. We are praying to the same God. I’d be thrilled to have a rabbi pray for me, especially in Hebrew.

Much thanks for your response.

 

[meltzerboy]

I’m not sure that the priest was right to omit the truth that God is triune while praying for your mother. It may have been a nice sentiment, but it also very well could have been a sin against faith on the part of the priest.

I suppose rabbis may pray for the health of a Catholic, but I don’t think it should be done in front of her, or at least, it should not be expected that other Catholics join in such a prayer because there is at least a possibility for an implicit denial of the Holy Trinity (a Catholic cannot think, “Oh, it doesn’t matter how or in what way we worship God, and it doesn’t matter what we call Him”). Historically, the Church has been very strict about Catholics worshipping with non-Catholics (and vice versa). Private prayer between different Christians has been allowed, provided there is nothing heretical (i.e. erroneous doctrine) in the prayers. Prayer between Catholics and Jews presents a much bigger problem because Jews deny the divinity of Christ and the revelation of God in three Persons. We are to pray “through Christ our Lord” or “in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,” so we cannot truly pray with Jews. Our differences in belief are greater than some people would like to admit (including our Catholic prelates).

The rabbi should pray privately for the Catholic. I hope my advice has been helpful.

This is understandable and I thought there might be something wrong with a rabbi’s praying for a Catholic. In Torah Judaism, I’m almost positive it would be the same situation in reverse: a priest’s praying for a Jew would implicitly be denying the Unity of G-d and the affirmation of Jesus and the Trinity. I also understand your saying that the priest in this situation may be committing a sin according to his faith by omitting the name of Jesus in his prayer. Our religions do indeed have different beliefs in G-d even though they both believe in one G-d. However, on a purely human level–and not as a Jew–I thought the priest was doing a great mitzva (commandment) by praying for my mother regardless of what Judaism or Catholicism might say about the matter.

 

[SouthpawLink]

meltzerboy,
In and of itself, praying for another is virtuous; it’s a spiritual work of mercy for Catholics. With that said, however, we must pray as Our Lord taught us and as our Church teaches us. I cannot say with absolute certainty that the priest sinned, but we have to be on guard against indifference and even appearing to deny our faith (e.g., by not making the Sign of the Cross or praying through or in the name of Our Lord).

P.S. - I am a traditional Catholic, which basically means I do not like much of what’s gone on in the Church in the past 50 years. I follow pre-Vatican II catechisms and do not see the Church’s hob-nobbing with non-Catholics (with no aim towards their conversion) as a good thing. Instead, I see it as false ecumenism. Hopefully this will help you to better understand where I’m coming from. I care whether or not Pope St. Pius X would have condoned it (that’s my measure of orthodoxy).

 

[laszlo]

God is above us. As the Law was to help the Nation to worship Him, so are the dogmas for us. God is above the Law and above the dogmas.

God loves everybody and does not make distinction between man and man. He accepts a good Jew sooner than a bad Catholic and vice versa.

A Catholic cannot go regularly to a rabbi asking him to pray, but occasionally especially if priest is not available, God will listen to the payers of rabbi too.

The view was somewhat different before Vatican II, but in emergency even then if only a rabbi was present and he could be asked to pray for a catholic. We Catholics do not hate other people, and this starts with understanding instead of strict separation. Jews, Muslims, Christians, and yes we Catholics too believe on the same One God.

 

[meltzerboy]

meltzerboy,
In and of itself, praying for another is virtuous; it’s a spiritual work of mercy for Catholics. With that said, however, we must pray as Our Lord taught us and as our Church teaches us. I cannot say with absolute certainty that the priest sinned, but we have to be on guard against indifference and even appearing to deny our faith (e.g., by not making the Sign of the Cross or praying through or in the name of Our Lord).

P.S. - I am a traditional Catholic, which basically means I do not like much of what’s gone on in the Church in the past 50 years. I follow pre-Vatican II catechisms and do not see the Church’s hob-nobbing with non-Catholics (with no aim towards their conversion) as a good thing. Instead, I see it as false ecumenism. Hopefully this will help you to better understand where I’m coming from. I care whether or not Pope St. Pius X would have condoned it (that’s my measure of orthodoxy).

I respect your views because you appear sincere, even though I, as a Reform Jew, am essentially in favor of ecumenism. Many Orthodox Jews are likewise not in favor of hobnobbing with people from other faiths and discourage Jews from giving even the appearance of denial of faith. I don’t agree with them either but, at the same time, respect them for their conviction.

 

[baylee]

meltzerboy,
In and of itself, praying for another is virtuous; it’s a spiritual work of mercy for Catholics. With that said, however, we must pray as Our Lord taught us and as our Church teaches us. I cannot say with absolute certainty that the priest sinned, but we have to be on guard against indifference and even appearing to deny our faith (e.g., by not making the Sign of the Cross or praying through or in the name of Our Lord).

P.S. - I am a traditional Catholic, which basically means I do not like much of what’s gone on in the Church in the past 50 years. I follow pre-Vatican II catechisms and do not see the Church’s hob-nobbing with non-Catholics (with no aim towards their conversion) as a good thing. Instead, I see it as false ecumenism. Hopefully this will help you to better understand where I’m coming from. I care whether or not Pope St. Pius X would have condoned it (that’s my measure of orthodoxy).

Wait, so we’re not sure if this priest sinned by not mentioning Christ in his prayers, but we’re sure that a Catholic has sinned if he/she goes to a Jewish seder?

 

[SouthpawLink]

Wait, so we’re not sure if this priest sinned by not mentioning Christ in his prayers, but we’re sure that a Catholic has sinned if he/she goes to a Jewish seder?

I’ll let you know for sure when I get my Doctorate in Sacred Theology! There are times when it is permissible to keep one’s faith unknown, but there does not seem to be a grave necessity to do so at a hospital (when praying for someone else).

Moreover, there are moral principles and papal/conciliar pronouncements to be followed. Just because something seems popular now doesn’t mean that’s it’s lawful or licit (such as the reception of Holy Communion by non-Catholics: this is the worst revison of the CIC). Were there any Catholic Seders before Vatican II?

 

[momor]

As a Catholic I consider Judaism to be part of my faith heritage. I believe we have the fullness of faith through Christ but I still respect and value the Jewish religion, the religion of our Savior and Blessed Mother and Apostles, as my ancestral heritage.

 

[SouthpawLink]

As a Catholic I consider Judaism to be part of my faith heritage. I believe we have the fullness of faith through Christ but I still respect and value the Jewish religion, the religion of our Savior and Blessed Mother and Apostles, as my ancestral heritage.

In my understanding, modern-day Judaism (Talmudism) has nothing to do with the Judaism of Our Lord and Our Lady. The Talmud doesn’t have many kind words for them, in fact.

 

[meltzerboy]

In my understanding, modern-day Judaism (Talmudism) has nothing to do with the Judaism of Our Lord and Our Lady. The Talmud doesn’t have many kind words for them, in fact.

In this respect, I believe you are misinformed. First of all, Modern Judaism is not Talmudism: it is Torah Judaism for Orthodox Jews. The Torah is the preeminent source of authority for all Jews, whereas other books such as the Talmud reflect rabbinical wisdom. The latter is also to be taken seriously; however it is only the Torah that is divinely inspired. Second, the Talmud is in no way anti-Christ; in fact, Jesus is kindly thought of among most rabbis. He was a Jew, a rabbi, and, according to Judaism, likely a prophet as well. We do not believe He was the Messiah, however, for a variety of reasons. And, according to Torah scholars, the Messiah is not supposed to be G-d anyway. Still, for Jews, this takes nothing away from our respect for Jesus as a wise teacher and prophet. Where there is less admiration among many Jews is regarding the position of Christianity toward Judaism through the ages in the form of antisemitism and worse. This is a historical fact and Jews are wary of Christians to this day based on events of the past. That is why, as I mentioned before, I favor “hobnobbing” between the faiths in an attempt to ease the tensions and foster mutual respect and admiration for one another. In my view, separation will only breed continued and increased suspicion and animosity.

 

[Crusading_Canuk]

Second, the Talmud is in no way anti-Christ; in fact, Jesus is kindly thought of among most rabbis. He was a Jew, a rabbi, and, according to Judaism, likely a prophet as well…

Really, where in the Talmud does it speak well of Jesus and Our Lady? I’m not trying to contridict you but this is the opposite of what I have heard.

 

[meltzerboy]

Really, where in the Talmud does it speak well of Jesus and Our Lady? I’m not trying to contridict you but this is the opposite of what I have
The Talmud itself is concerned with just about every aspect of human life and social interaction and how the laws of the Torah are applicable to them according to rabbinical interpretation. It is not a book about Jesus but rather a commentary about the teachings of the Law in the Old Testament. It does not directly speak about Jesus either pro or con. My comment referred not to the Talmud but to the position held by most rabbis regarding Jesus, which is generally favorable. Their position about the behavior of Christians toward Jews, particularly in the past, however, is another story. The OP stated, according to my interpretation, that the Talmud did not have kind words to say about Jesus or Mary. I am refuting that statement since that is not the topic of the book. If, on the other hand, the OP’s statement meant the Talmud did not directly praise Jesus or Mary, then that is correct and I apologize for my misunderstanding.