Race, God, and the LDS Church

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NewSeeker said:
If the Holy Spirit is your guide (and no longer the prophet), then you can safely ignore what the prophet has to say.
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One could also argue, that if the Holy Spirit is your guide, just ignore what the Church has to say. But I don’t think we want to go down that road.
 
Ahimsa said:
One could also argue, that if the Holy Spirit is your guide, just ignore what the Church has to say. But I don’t think we want to go down that road.
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Why not? Prophets opine; the church can be mistaken. With the Holy Spirit as your guide, you are your own ultimate authority. The church is second fiddle.
 
NewSeeker said:
…In the old days, God would not allow a prophet to teach false doctrine. It was unthinkable that core teachings would change. Now prophets can teach false doctrine, since they’re imperfect humans with their own opinions. Everything a prophet utters must be tested against what the Holy Spirit reveals to you through personal prayer.
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When did any bible prophet preach a fiery sermon and then say “but before you heed the word of the Lord which has just come through me, you should pray about it and decide for yourself”.

Not in my bible… 😉
 
Ahimsa said:
“Why”? I don’t think anyone really knows.
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What happened to the curse of Cain in 1978? Does it seem reasonable that God would want people of African decent to be treated as second class citizens for 134 years of the 2000 years of Christianity?
 
Ahimsa said:
The Mormons had been seriously thinking about lifting the ban for about 10 to 15 years before 1978. The even that led to the 1978 revelation was the presence of the LDS in nations like Brazil: the LDS goes to Brazil, gets converts, builds a Temple, and then find out that most Brazilians wouldn’t be able to be ordained in the Temple, because most Brazilians have some African ancestry. The revelation occurred, thus freeing the LDS to ordain Brazilians, as well as any other African-descended persons.
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Was the ban repeal a revelation of the same God that revealed that the ban would last until the second coming of Christ? Did Christ ever declare a priesthood ban on people of African decent?
 
Ahimsa said:
Well, two Protestants can pray, and arrive at different answers. The problem remains the same.

So, what it all boils down to is, one is responsible, ultimately, for one’s own spiritual practice. Pray to God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and trust that God is Good.
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Are you saying that Mormons pray to know if the priesthood ban was from God or racist Mormon leadership?
 
NewSeeker said:
Why not? Prophets opine; the church can be mistaken. With the Holy Spirit as your guide, you are your own ultimate authority. The church is second fiddle.
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Humans are social, communal creatures. The H.S. works through community.
 
Stephen168 said:
Are you saying that Mormons pray to know if the priesthood ban was from God or racist Mormon leadership?
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I would suspect Mormons have various opinions on this issue, and various ways of determining why it is the way it is.
 
Stephen168 said:
Was the ban repeal a revelation of the same God that revealed that the ban would last until the second coming of Christ?
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I’m not sure if the timing of the repeal was a core element of the ban revelation.
Did Christ ever declare a priesthood ban on people of African decent?
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The NT doesn’t have Christ declaring the APB, not do the core LDS scriptures.
 
Stephen168 said:
Does it seem reasonable that God would want people of African decent to be treated as second class citizens for 134 years of the 2000 years of Christianity?
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God might not ‘want’ something, but God can bring good out of bad.
 
The black ban was doctrine. One of the historical footnotes on the link I posted from another thread had an apostle whi stated that the ban was directly from God.
 
SirThomasMore said:
The black ban was doctrine.
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In terms of ‘doctrine’ being defined as something taught at the highest levels of community, without necessarily being part of core LDS scripture, then, yes, the APB was ‘doctrine’.
One of the historical footnotes on the link I posted from another thread had an apostle whi stated that the ban was directly from God.
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Yes, I’m sure many apostles have said thus. And one or two also said the ban would be temporary.
 
Ahimsa said:
Humans are social, communal creatures. The H.S. works through community.
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So the community is the final arbiter of truth, not the prophet, the church leadership or the individual with The Holy Spirit as a guide. Is ultimate truth determined through unanimous consent or some level of a majority in the community?
 
Ahimsa said:
In terms of ‘doctrine’ being defined as something taught at the highest levels of community, without necessarily being part of core LDS scripture, then, yes, the APB was ‘doctrine’. Yes, I’m sure many apostles have said thus. And one or two also said the ban would be temporary.
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The black ban was doctrine. One of the historical footnotes on the link I posted from another thread had an apostle whi stated that the ban was directly from God.
 
NewSeeker said:
So the community is the final arbiter of truth, not the prophet, the church leadership or the individual with The Holy Spirit as a guide. Is ultimate truth determined through unanimous consent or some level of a majority in the community?
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I’m not sure exactly how the LDS views the H.S. working within its community, but clearly the H.S. works through the community as a whole, as well as through leadership and propheticisms.
 
SirThomasMore said:
The black ban was doctrine. One of the historical footnotes on the link I posted from another thread had an apostle whi stated that the ban was directly from God.
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Yep, the ban was doctrine, a teaching taught by many in the leadership, but not something explicit in the core LDS scripture.
 
Stephen168 said:
How could a revelation come from God but God not ‘want’ it? Does it seem more reasonable the ban did not come from God at all?
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The two theories concerning the ‘ban’: it was from God, or it was a misreading of core LDS scriptures.

But, even if the second theory is true, then even then, God can bring good from ‘bad’.
 
Exactally what “good” can come from a racist doctrine? I certainly wouldn’t clasify 130 years of racism as a “good” thing.
 
The black ban was doctrine. One of the historical footnotes on the link I posted from another thread had an apostle whi stated that the ban was directly from God.
 
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