Racial Awareness

[Veronica75]

With the recent news about Supreme Court Justice nominee Sotomayor being a member of “La Raza”, I was wondering what the Church’s view is on its members being racially aware. I know that before God there is neither male nor female, gentile or jew, but while here on earth we are embodied as either a man or woman and we belong to one tribe/racial group or another. Is it wrong, therefore, to celebrate and identify strongly with our gender and race? Is it wrong to want to protect and perpetuate one’s race? La Raza is a racialist organization, for example, so I guess what I want to know is since White European-Americans are on the way to becoming a minority, is it wrong for them to want to ensure the survival and rights of their race?

Also, as a White woman, can I belong to a group which advocates on behalf of White people and still be a Christian?

 

[kellychrysler]

There is nothing wrong with an Italian or a Polish or a French group. But I think the problem is with identifying as having a white group. Whites have all different backgrounds, and putting them all together like that is not appreciating the differences and history of European Americans.

In history, it has also been used as a divisive tactic, that just made the groups look foolish and ignorant.

 

[redhen]

There is nothing wrong with an Italian or a Polish or a French group. But I think the problem is with identifying as having a white group. Whites have all different backgrounds, and putting them all together like that is not appreciating the differences and history of European Americans.

There are many government sponsored advocacy groups and associations for the advancement of “coloured people”, none of which are broken down by nationalities. They are simply race based. So why is it wrong for Caucasians?

This is not in any way racist. It is simply acknowledging the different races. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t God also acknowledge the the different races by means of special dispensation to the Jews and Gentiles? Does that make God a racist? I think not.

 

[kellychrysler]

^^ It’s called coloured people, because many of them do not know their country of origin due to forced slavery.

As Christians we believe God stopped the preference towards the Jews, when he brought Jesus. Also Jews and Gentiles goes with my theory of it’s okay to celebrate culture and not race. Gentile nor Jews are a particular race, but are a culture. Jews are of many different races. The Bible does not recognize race. Except for in the Song of Songs.

 

[Newbie2]

There is nothing wrong with an Italian or a Polish or a French group. But I think the problem is with identifying as having a white group. Whites have all different backgrounds, and putting them all together like that is not appreciating the differences and history of European Americans.

In history, it has also been used as a divisive tactic, that just made the groups look foolish and ignorant.

Yes, I agree. It’s irritating to me when advertisers, in particular, look to classify surveys based on racial charicteristics. Like all of us “white people” shop a certain way, or all “black people” shop a different way.

Now medically, such classifications are not problematic, as they can be useful to assess risk factors for disease; a different story altogether.

There are many government sponsored advocacy groups and associations for the advancement of “coloured people”, none of which are broken down by nationalities. They are simply race based. So why is it wrong for Caucasians?

This is not in any way racist. It is simply acknowledging the different races. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t God also acknowledge the the different races by means of special dispensation to the Jews and Gentiles? Does that make God a racist? I think not.

Politicians perpetuate perhaps the worst sort of racism. “Let’s go after the Hispanic vote” or “let’s go after the black vote” seems insulting to me, as if all people of a certain race are going to vote the same.

But to the point of the OP, I guess it would depend on what was meant by advocacy of different racial groups. If it means standing up for the rights of one’s own racial group, i.e. addressing sociopolitical inequalities based on race, then there’s no problem with that.

I think, though, that one must be careful about what one is celebrating and embracing. Although culture and race go together for the most part, celebrating one’s cultural heritage is different, methinks, than celebrating and embracing one’s skin color.

 

[Veronica75]

Thanks for your thoughts. It has been shown that race is more than a question of skin color. Different races have produced different cultures and civilizations and they are not interchangeable. I guess I’m just wondering how to incorporate my Christian faith with my views on race. People identify with their ethnicity, but also with the larger category of race. A black Jamaican can be proud of his culture but identify with the larger category of “black” or African. In a globalized and smaller world, it is inevitable, IMO, that people will identify with a larger racial bloc, ie, Asian, Black, Hispanic, etc, so why should Whites/Caucasians, be prevented from doing the same thing?

 

[redhen]

^^ It’s called coloured people, because many of them do not know their country of origin due to forced slavery.

You must be thinking of the NAACP, but I submit that nationalities are unimportant for this group, same for La Raza, and others. Obviously it’s the racial self-identification that’s important.

Gentile nor Jews are a particular race, but are a culture. Jews are of many different races.

Not in Biblical times. Chosen people is a term aimed at a particular race. Abraham was promised land for his descendants, in other words blood relations. Gentile (goyim) comes from the latin gens, also denoting shared **genetic **DNA.

 

[redhen]

Thanks for your thoughts. It has been shown that race is more than a question of skin color.

You are correct. pbs.org/wgbh/nova/first/gill.html

… so why should Whites/Caucasians, be prevented from doing the same thing?

Because of the social engineering work of Marxist educators that teach that western civilization is bad, white people are evil especially the males, and you should feel guilty about that.

youtube.com/watch?v=IxSg2oRU6Bs&feature=channel_page

How you could work this genuine pride into your Christian faith, I’m not sure. You have to be careful that it is authentic pride and not** hubris**, or else you end up with supposed faith based organizations like the KKK.

 

[JPUSC]

Upon reading the description of the National Council of La Raza, it appears that they are a non-partisan advocacy group representing Hispanic civil rights. Seeing as racial segregation was only ended in the United States fairly recently, I don’t think it’s terribly wrong for a minority group to feel a need to have some kind of organization that looks out for their interest.

The United States is still 74% white and only 14.8% Latino, so being alarmed about caucasians becoming a minority is unjustified. Besides, what would be so wrong if people of different races started mixing? We should be wanting to ensure the survival and rights of all people. Everyone probably looked similar in the beginning before human groups began to adapt to their geography.

An individual culture and the values that come with it (e.g., Irish, German, etc.) is something important to be preserved, but human physicial characteristics (e.g., whiteness) are malleable. Actually, if you were to go strictly with the word “white,” that would include some Latinos and Asians.

 

[Veronica75]

Thanks for that youtube link, redhen–it was well-made. I remember Pat Buchanan wrote about the Frankfurt School’s infiltration of universities after WW II in “Death of the West”. They “marched through the institutions” to spread Marxism. It would seem that many people today are unaware of the extent to which these Marxists have been successful in their social engineering. Even the Big Mainline Churches have been infiltrated by leftists/communists.

 

[kellychrysler]

You must be thinking of the NAACP, but I submit that nationalities are unimportant for this group, same for La Raza, and others. Obviously it’s the racial self-identification that’s important.

La Raza is for Mexican Americans. Not a specific race but culture. They later expanded to all Latin Americans. But still latin america has many races, white, mestizo, and black.

Not in Biblical times. Chosen people is a term aimed at a particular race. Abraham was promised land for his descendants, in other words blood relations. Gentile (goyim) comes from the latin gens, also denoting shared **genetic **DNA.

In Biblical times chosen people weren’t a particular race. Moses married Zipporah who is described as probably being from Sudan. There are many different races within the Jewish region. But that doesn’t denote race . Gentile just means people who are not of Jewish origin.

 

[Veronica75]

La Raza is for Mexican Americans. Not a specific race but culture. They later expanded to all Latin Americans. But still latin america has many races, white, mestizo, and black.
.

Are you even aware of La Raza’s (The Race) motto? For the Race everything. Outside of the Race, nothing. It is a racialist organization.

Modern Christians are out to lunch.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Ugh. Racially aware. I have only heard one group use that term.

And they were far from being Christian.

 

[Lujack]

Also, as a White woman, can I belong to a group which advocates on behalf of White people and still be a Christian?

Because being black or latino is not like being white, its like being Irish or Italian. I feel no particular pride in other European-Americans, and I possess no European-American identity. However, I feel great pride in being both Italian and Irish; real communities of both ethnicities exist, and it isn’t racist for me to smile at pictures of Jack Kennedy and James Cagney, or of Joe DiMaggio and Fiorello LaGuardia. The same would go for people of black or latino descent.

People like to use the example of “You’d object to an all-white organization!” when it comes to the NAACP, but who objects to the Hibernian Society?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Because being black or latino is not like being white, its like being Irish or Italian.

Though I agree largely with the rest of your post this is incorrect. Being black is like being white.

Being Nigerian/Ghanaian is like being Irish/Italian.

 

[Arwen037]

I think that to be “racially” aware is a bad thing. I don’t think it should be a deal whatever race you are. Nationality is different. If you want to practice national traditions and celebrate your nationality, that’s cool. But things like have a “black” culture center on campus, I think it wrong. Would I be allowed to start a “white” culture center? No, because it would be racist. Your race should not be a reason for anything. The focus should not be on the difference, but on the similarities. I think that any group making race a focus (such as sotomayor thinking she’ll make better decisions because she’s hispanic, or Obama running to the first black president, rather than just a good president) is just causing problems and divisions.

 

[roselily]

Shall we see all people just as two classes : Believers and Non believers?
Then truly I thought that is the only two difference we should see people.
.

“But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him.”-John 4:23

 

[Palm_Tree]

With the recent news about Supreme Court Justice nominee Sotomayor being a member of “La Raza”, I was wondering what the Church’s view is on its members being racially aware. I know that before God there is neither male nor female, gentile or jew, but while here on earth we are embodied as either a man or woman and we belong to one tribe/racial group or another. Is it wrong, therefore, to celebrate and identify strongly with our gender and race? Is it wrong to want to protect and perpetuate one’s race? La Raza is a racialist organization, for example, so I guess what I want to know is since White European-Americans are on the way to becoming a minority, is it wrong for them to want to ensure the survival and rights of their race?

Also, as a White woman, can I belong to a group which advocates on behalf of White people and still be a Christian?

There are many government sponsored advocacy groups and associations for the advancement of “coloured people”, none of which are broken down by nationalities. They are simply race based. So why is it wrong for Caucasians?

This is not in any way racist. It is simply acknowledging the different races. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t God also acknowledge the the different races by means of special dispensation to the Jews and Gentiles? Does that make God a racist? I think not.

Long story short, I’m a white American, like the three generations before me on my father’s side (longer than that on my mother’s side). I used to be pretty pompous and self-righteous about how I’m a white American and how all my recent ancestors are White Americans and how all my ancestors before them were all whites from one of the greatest countries in Western Europe.

But I don’t think that way anymore. According to 2007 Census estimates, the United States is:
80% White
15.1% Hispanic
12.8% African American
4.4% Asian
1.0% Native American and Alaskan Native
census.gov/popest/national/asrh/NC-EST2007-srh.html

And I look at history, I look at how whites from Western Europe dominated the Western Hemisphere (both North and South America), dominated Africa and how we basically had our way with all of them. As for the Asians, we slapped them around pretty good as well, although not as bad as we dominated the people from North and South America and Africa.

And, like my Bishop did in his recent pastoral letter to my dioceses, I look at the stats showing that the non-Whites in the USA don’t enjoy anywhere near the benefits that the whites enjoy.

Based on all that, the suggestion that it would be cool for whites to belong to a group which advocates on behalf of White people in the USA is pretty sick. It would be similar to kicking somebody who is already on the ground. To me, like my white male Bishop, the Christian thing to do is to advocate for equality for the inferior minorities that historically got beat down by the whites. To me, like my white male Bishop, the Christian thing to do is to realize that it is a basic Christian principle to love our neighbors as ourselves, to respect all humans as created in God’s image, to respect all humans as God’s children, and to stick up for the poor, the oppressed, the less fortunate, etc.

 

[Veronica75]

What a smug and self-satisfied lot. Hey, Palm Tree, did your Bishop write a letter explaining why it would be wrong to vote for a pro-death president? Without the help of Catholics, he may not have won.

Well, I guess as we’re living in a post-Christian West and most White folks have stopped going to Church, (If you want to know one of the reasons why, read “Breach of Faith” by James Russell), something else will fill the void. Perhaps that something else will be nationalism/blood/belonging/identity, etc, you know, natural human needs that every other race acknowledges.

Naturam expelles furca, tamen usque recurret.
–Throw Nature out with a pitchfork, And yet She will return. (Horace, Epistles, I, x, 24)

 

[mkingdomlvr]

Shall we see all people just as two classes : Believers and Non believers?
Then truly I thought that is the only two difference we should see people.
.

“But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him.”-John 4:23

Shouldn’t we see ALL people as Children of God?