L
LDNCatholic
Guest
Over my dead body. This racial identity bull is just another excuse to hate.
- Status
M
Middleman
Guest
There is a definite double standard here that may eventually change. As it is, non-whites are allowed to have exclusive groups to promote their own group interests, but for whites to do so is considered racist.
That may be because it’s the non-whites that have traditionally been trying to break into white society, but whites tend to not want to break into non-white society. You don’t see Whites clamoring to move into Black neighborhoods. You’ll never see a White person demanding entrance into a Hispanic or Black policeman’s fraternity or nurse’s association.
Minorities still behave in a very insecure fashion in these matters. Hopefully, now with a Black president and more visible minorities in other positions of power, they can settle down and feel a little more secure, not seeing offense around every corner.
That may be because it’s the non-whites that have traditionally been trying to break into white society, but whites tend to not want to break into non-white society. You don’t see Whites clamoring to move into Black neighborhoods. You’ll never see a White person demanding entrance into a Hispanic or Black policeman’s fraternity or nurse’s association.
Minorities still behave in a very insecure fashion in these matters. Hopefully, now with a Black president and more visible minorities in other positions of power, they can settle down and feel a little more secure, not seeing offense around every corner.
U
uther
Guest
It is interesting that recent science of mitochondrial DNA, I believe it was the human genome project, has proven the Biblical Eve. That is to say that every human being has one common mother, the same woman.
With that in the back of our minds it is perhaps easier to think and live as we know we should as Christians, as racially neutral. It is very difficult to do, no doubt, but we have to also make a distinction between race and culture. People of varying racial appearances can be raised in the same culture and their cultural commonalities tend to outweigh their physical differences. I’ve seen this personally.
This is why the black/white racial divide in America continues to the extent that it does. Their has been a cultural divide as well. Much of that has to do with economics, obviously, but in parts of the country where you find blacks and whites equally poor and desperate, you often find less racial animosity because poverty tends to override all other concerns and then culture can sometimes build itself in commonality.
Common cultural icons sometimes can help to cross the divides of culture. A sports hero, a war hero. And that is why religious icons become important as well. In the case of Sotomayor and the comments she made about a “wise latina”, some of that was the cultural marker of poverty and some was ethnic and racial. That is the mix she came from and that is how she identifies herself.
So how does anyone identify themself? You generally accept the icons of your parents, but suppose you wanted to self-identify and pick your own icons. Where would you go? Genetics? How far back do you go? Shall I say I’m a descendent of Ham. You may say what are you talking about? Well, there was Shem, Ham and Japheth, all sons of Noah. Or perhaps I won’t go that far back. Let’s say I just go back to England. After seven or so generations in North America that might be iffy, but when I look at the history of England I have a choice as well. How many invaders were there over the centuries? Shall I say I am one of those Celts? Not exactly. How about one of those Picts or Jutes? How about one of those Romans? Or perhaps a Norman? Or maybe a Dane or a Norseman?
Well, when I look in the mirror I see mostly Saxon. So who were they? Well, back before they invaded England they were pagan barbarians from what is now Germany. Go figure.
The point is, the current racial divides and ethnic divides are just a snapshot in time. America has its own history of racial hatred and injustice, but it must be remembered that most of that was well in place before America gained independence and wrote its own constitution. The unique thing about the United States is that it is founded on an idea, a concept of governance, not just on an ethnicity or race. The principles of that founding, when followed (an Americans have not always followed their own ideals, but have had to grow into them) should override, should supercede all racial considerations. People can celebrate their differences and they always will, but governance and policy should never be made on those differences. To the extent that they are, there will always be injustice. That’s the point. And as Christians, that should be our way of thinking as well.
With that in the back of our minds it is perhaps easier to think and live as we know we should as Christians, as racially neutral. It is very difficult to do, no doubt, but we have to also make a distinction between race and culture. People of varying racial appearances can be raised in the same culture and their cultural commonalities tend to outweigh their physical differences. I’ve seen this personally.
This is why the black/white racial divide in America continues to the extent that it does. Their has been a cultural divide as well. Much of that has to do with economics, obviously, but in parts of the country where you find blacks and whites equally poor and desperate, you often find less racial animosity because poverty tends to override all other concerns and then culture can sometimes build itself in commonality.
Common cultural icons sometimes can help to cross the divides of culture. A sports hero, a war hero. And that is why religious icons become important as well. In the case of Sotomayor and the comments she made about a “wise latina”, some of that was the cultural marker of poverty and some was ethnic and racial. That is the mix she came from and that is how she identifies herself.
So how does anyone identify themself? You generally accept the icons of your parents, but suppose you wanted to self-identify and pick your own icons. Where would you go? Genetics? How far back do you go? Shall I say I’m a descendent of Ham. You may say what are you talking about? Well, there was Shem, Ham and Japheth, all sons of Noah. Or perhaps I won’t go that far back. Let’s say I just go back to England. After seven or so generations in North America that might be iffy, but when I look at the history of England I have a choice as well. How many invaders were there over the centuries? Shall I say I am one of those Celts? Not exactly. How about one of those Picts or Jutes? How about one of those Romans? Or perhaps a Norman? Or maybe a Dane or a Norseman?
Well, when I look in the mirror I see mostly Saxon. So who were they? Well, back before they invaded England they were pagan barbarians from what is now Germany. Go figure.
The point is, the current racial divides and ethnic divides are just a snapshot in time. America has its own history of racial hatred and injustice, but it must be remembered that most of that was well in place before America gained independence and wrote its own constitution. The unique thing about the United States is that it is founded on an idea, a concept of governance, not just on an ethnicity or race. The principles of that founding, when followed (an Americans have not always followed their own ideals, but have had to grow into them) should override, should supercede all racial considerations. People can celebrate their differences and they always will, but governance and policy should never be made on those differences. To the extent that they are, there will always be injustice. That’s the point. And as Christians, that should be our way of thinking as well.
J
jazzisaurus
Guest
B
Barry_Gabriel
Guest
The cracking of the human genome the other year showed something amazing to a lot of people, and that is that there is only one race. Humans have less genetic diversity than any two members of a chimpanzee troupe. Having said that, I don’t think there’s any problem with identifying with a particular cultural group. I, being of “mixed” race, identify with Irish, Highland Scots, Acadians and the Mi’kmaq.
Even though there is no Polish or African in me, I attend the Polish and Caribbean festivals here in this very diverse city where I work.
P
Palm_Tree
Guest
You make it sound like because of the Church’s teachings on social justice, that the Church doesn’t care about abortion. For example, you assume that because my bishop issues teachings on social justice that he doesn’t care about abortion. My bishop regularly goes to the big abortion clinic in our diocese and leads us in protest and prayer against abortion. Also, just like that bishop of the diocese that includes Notre Dame boycotted ND’s graduation because they invited Obama, my bishop did the same thing just a few years ago… he boycotted the graduation of the most prestigeous Catholic university in our diocese because they invited our state’s US Senator who had a political record of voting in favor of the pro-choice crowd’s perspective.
Regarding any affliation or loyalty that Sonia Sotomayor has, consciously or subconsciously, to Hispanic people, that might very well turn about to be a blessing for the Pro-life crowd. Hispanics have among the highest percentage of Catholics in the world.
Paraguay is 91.56% Catholic
Ecuador is 89.60% Catholic
Argentina is 89.25% Catholic
Venezuela is 87.82% Catholic
Peru is 87.78% Catholic
México is 86.67% Catholic
Colombia is 86.29% Catholic
Panama is 85.38% Catholic
Bolivia is 84.76% Catholic
Costa Rica is 83.38% Catholic
Nicaragua is 81.63% Catholic
Honduras is 79.45% Catholic
Brazil is 78.95% Catholic
Guatemala is 76.59% Catholic
El Salvador is 76.09% Catholic
Uruguay is 72.89% Catholic
Chile is 71.16% Catholic
Compare to the USA, which is only 22.63% Catholic.
catholic-hierarchy.org/country/sc3.html
Also, Hispanic countries are strongly Pro-Life. Abortion is illegal in most of South and Central American countries… which I would assume is connected to how strongly Catholic they are.
As for Sonia Sotomayor, she’s a Catholic, she’s a Hispanic, and she’s shown some sort of degree of loyality to Hispanic people. Add it all together, and we might very well have a Pro-Life judge with her.
I’ve never researched her legal decisions on abortion, but looking at her wikipedia page, all it says about about her abortion views is:
*
In the 2002 decision Center for Reproductive Law and Policy v. Bush, Sotomayor upheld the Bush administration’s implementation of the Mexico City Policy, which states that “the United States will no longer contribute to separate nongovernmental organizations which perform or actively promote abortion as a method of family planning in other nations.”[92] Sotomayor held that the policy did not constitute a violation of equal protection, as "the government is free to favor the anti-abortion position over the pro-choice position, and can do so with public funds.*
Reading one of the links at the bottom of her wikipedia page, I came to an article that says:
***Sotomayor’s most notable decision on abortion came in 2002, when she ruled against abortion rights advocates who wanted to challenge what is known as the Mexico City rule. It forbade overseas organizations that receive U.S. funds from providing or promoting abortion services. The rule has been a political football, put in place by Republican presidents and rescinded by Democrats, most recently by Obama in January.
**
Sotomayor’s decision…relies on precedents from the Supreme Court and the 2nd Circuit to deny the challengers’ suit to go forward. “We have been over this ground before,” Sotomayor wrote, noting a previous case before the court that raised almost identical issues.
"The Supreme Court has made clear that the government is free to favor the anti-abortion position over the pro-choice position, and can do so with public funds," she concluded for the unanimous three-judge panel.
Even more tangentially, Sotomayor has ruled that a suit brought by a group of abortion protesters who claimed police brutality could go forward; it focused on questions of municipal liability. And in cases involving deportation to China, she has written about the country’s sterilization and forced abortion standards.** In one case, she talked about how husbands would be affected: “The termination of a wanted pregnancy under a coercive population control program can only be devastating to any couple, akin, no doubt, to the killing of a child.” **
…
Also before she was a judge, Sotomayor served on the board of the Maternity Center Association, a Manhattan nonprofit group that focuses on improving maternity care for women.
Carol Sakala, director of programs for the organization (now called Childbirth Connection), said today that** it “deals exclusively with women who want to carry their pregnancies to term”**
*
R
roselily
Guest
I would;
I mean that since I do not have some catholic friends in my life, maybe one or two, I mean in my real life , not on line,and one she is 90 years old, she had her birthday 3 weeks ago, yes, we can make friends with non believers , but I found that can’t be close, because they do not understand you, once I say to someone she likes me she wants to be my friend-I told her that I want to be a Sister or Nun, and she said: No, I will not allow you! and I found her life is so different as my life, and I try to make her believe in God, but I found it’s hard, and years ago I always put a Holy Bible on my desk, and after class I read some words to my classmate, her table close my table, and she said : all the words so right, so sometime we read together, and now she believe in God too, but is protestant not catholic, and I found when I want say our religion to others …, it 's hard to make them understand, though they like you.
Sure I will be good to everyone. and see all people as God children, I am wrong to divided people as two class, believer and non believer, But I read this words in Bible
:-2 Corinthians 5:14-18
"Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness?
What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
‘I will live in them and walk
among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Therefore come out from them,
and be separate from them, says
the Lord,
and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,
and I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.’ -2 Corinthians 5:14-18
I am so happy to make some good friends in God in this Forum
S
servantofall
Guest
Has anyone here studied the history of this country? “Non-whites” have never tried to break into white society. Organizations like the NAACP, which by the way has always had non-black members, wehre founded to counter the Jim Crow laws that denied non-white Americans thr protections under the constitution on the US. by the way being black is not like being white. A black person can’t change the coloe of his skin,and unfortunately in the US is immediately instantly deemed a threat. How many of you clutch your purse a little closer or move closer to the door when a blackman steps on the elevator. But, being a Catholis christian, when this happens to me when I get on the elevator, I just say a little prayer for thos scared individuals.
M
mkingdomlvr
Guest
I can understand people not wanting to hang out with those who do not share their views, but that isn’t the same thing as how we view people in general. Like gravitates to like, so it’s hard to imagine deep friendships between people who have significant differences in matters of faith.I would;
I mean that since I do not have some catholic friends in my life, maybe one or two, I mean in my real life , not on line,and one she is 90 years old, she had her birthday 3 weeks ago, yes, we can make friends with non believers , but I found that can’t be close, because they do not understand you, once I say to someone she likes me she wants to be my friend-I told her that I want to be a Sister or Nun, and she said: No, I will not allow you! and I found her life is so different as my life, and I try to make her believe in God, but I found it’s hard, and years ago I always put a Holy Bible on my desk, and after class I read some words to my classmate, her table close my table, and she said : all the words so right, so sometime we read together, and now she believe in God too, but is protestant not catholic, and I found when I want say our religion to others …, it 's hard to make them understand, though they like you.
Sure I will be good to everyone. and see all people as God children, I am wrong to divided people as two class, believer and non believer, But I read this words in Bible
:-2 Corinthians 5:14-18
"Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness?
What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
‘I will live in them and walk
among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Therefore come out from them,
and be separate from them, says
the Lord,
and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,
and I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.’ -2 Corinthians 5:14-18
I am so happy to make some good friends in God in this Forum
The discussion took me back to Sr Gertrude in Catechism class, teaching us unruly brats that no matter whether we liked a person or not, or whether we agreed with their choices or not-that person was created in the Image and Likeness of God and we must never wish harm on them or view them in any way inferior to us.
A
Arwen037
Guest
I clutch my purse tighter when anyone gets close to me. And as for celebrating national heritage, not race, I can personally attest to that not always being the case. I went to an African heritage celebratory event at the black culture center on my college campus. There were “african-americans” and African-Americans. The students who had actually lived in Africa pointed out the difference between black americans and African-Americans. The true African-Americans were, I don’t want to use the word offended, because it’s too strong, but they didn’t appreciate it. If everyone was celebrating African heritage, then there wouldn’t have really been a debate. Our black culture center is so that blacks don’t have to feel different or feel like they don’t belong. It is about skin color, not heritage.
S
servantofall
Guest
I had several Nigerian friends when I was I college and I have known Nigerian and Kenyan army officers;we often talked about this difference. Again, one must understand the effects of laws that relegated one rece of people to second class citizenship beginning with the Black Codes of 1621 through the Jim Crows that are still on the books in many states. Although the laws have changed unfortunately attidtudes have not. Read the blogs on the internet that spew hatred. I have always taught my children, who are now adults and except everyone , that the color of person’s skin is not important, one’s character is. I taught them that regardless of what man has said, God created everyone in his image and we will follow God’s law. However, I also have used incidents of inequality to explain the history of blacks in America and stressing that because of the practicesof slavery, no American whose family has been in this country for more than 3 generations is of a pure race. Therefore, anyone who espouses the superiority of any racism and keeping it pure is wasting their time. It does not and never has existed in the US.
J
jazzisaurus
Guest
If it’s true that the black culture center at your school is interested in providing a space for African-Americans and “african-americans” to feel like they have a place to belong, then I would argue that the center is more about celebrating a shared heritage or culture than a “skin color.” This is obviously a disdainful fact, but people who identify as “black” in America share a heritage of being marginalized and feeling alienated on the basis of their black skin color. This is why the black culture center at your school (and presumably hundreds of other schools) exist–in order to act as a counterforce to this shared feeling of marginalization and alienation that the university, if it the population is majority white, may inadvertently perpetuate. This is also probably why the center is called the black culture center and not the “african-american culture center.” Calling it “african american” would leave out people who identify as black but who may come from Europe, the Caribbean, and so on. The problem with a “white student center” is simply that I am unsure what such a student group’s mission statement/purpose would be. Since whites, unlike blacks, are the dominant population and have historically held more positions of power, I am not sure what the purpose of their gathering in a group would be. If that purpose was well-articulated, then I don’t think anyone would complain.
R
roselily
Guest
A
antonabe
Guest
What is the objective of joining a Black group or a White group.Is it to protest against partiality of the law towards that particular race or to demand rights for that community or race which have been witheld by the Government or Society.My belief is if it is to fight for a legitimate right which has been deprived because one’s race,or colour one could join these groups and support the cause.Having said that this should not in any way affect the relationship to that particular group.We are now being Christian and we have to love our neighbour and that according to Jesus is one of the two most important Commandments.If we follow this Commandments most of the problems in the World will be resolved.
G
GodIsGracious
Guest
When you hear Hispanic, it’s the same thing. A Puerto Rican is not a Cubano is not a Mexican is not a Brazillian is not a Spaniard. Yet, they’re all called “Latinos/Latinas” or “Hispanic.” It’s unfortunate.
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
I agree that it is unfortunate.When you hear Hispanic, it’s the same thing. A Puerto Rican is not a Cubano is not a Mexican is not a Brazillian is not a Spaniard. Yet, they’re all called “Latinos/Latinas” or “Hispanic.” It’s unfortunate.
However Spaniards are not associated with Latino/Hispanic culture. Spaniards are white. To my understanding Latino and Hispanic are terms for cultures that originate in Spanish culture, and the people have some Spanish/Portugese ancestry, but it is a strictly New World thing.
Just the same as a fella from Kenya is not an African American. He’s just a regular African African.
G
GodIsGracious
Guest
True! And thank you for the reminder.
Bear in mind, the “New World” people didn’t originate from the Spaniards. They were overtaken, as there had already been people on this side of the world for quite a while.
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
Agreed but a majority of Latino/Hispanic people have at least some European ancestry right? They were neither Latino nor Hispanic cultures before the Spanish and Portugese arrived. They were Caribs, Aztecs, Arawak, etc.True! And thank you for the reminder.
Bear in mind, the “New World” people didn’t originate from the Spaniards. They were overtaken, as there had already been people on this side of the world for quite a while.
V
Veronica75
Guest
Try reading Professor Rushton’s book: Race, Evolution and Behavior. Race is more than skin color.
F
Feanor2
Guest
Better yet-
Try looking up this Prof. Rushton on Wikipedia and see what you find. . .
God Bless
Try looking up this Prof. Rushton on Wikipedia and see what you find. . .
God Bless
- Status