Racial perceptions

[PJH_74]

Understandably this likely to prove a hotter topic, but I think it is important that we continue to discuss this issue. To my mind, one of the main issues dividing this country on the topic is the definition of what is racism. A very simplistic definition might be that the white population in this country equates racism with bigotry, whereas minorities see a system and perceptions that work against them.

One thing I see that works against us are the videos from the more dramatic incidents and how often they are shared. Often all these do is to reinforce existing preconceptions.

Have you really considered how your own perceptions contribute to the problem? What would it take for you to come to a more common understanding of what the other "side’ is thinking. I would especially love to hear from any minorities on this board because I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the majority here identify with being “white”.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I’m a person of color, the daughter of immigrants. Growing up I thought racism ended in the 1950s. Then I moved to a different area and entered adolescence. There are some people who have no problem calling someone the n word. Not in the cool hip hop way. They mean it to hurt. I was very shocked by that.
As a woman of color, it does annoy me that the standard of beauty is a white woman. The only way for blacks or latinas to look pretty is if they have more European features.

 

[Della]

I’m a person of color, the daughter of immigrants. Growing up I thought racism ended in the 1950s. Then I moved to a different area and entered adolescence. There are some people who have no problem calling someone the n word. Not in the cool hip hop way. They mean it to hurt. I was very shocked by that.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced such incivility and outright nastiness. I think a lot of people who resort to such behavior do it because it makes them feel superior, when they are nothing more than ordinary, or even less than ordinary, within their own circles. And that’s a human failing that, unfortunately and sadly, no amount of readjusting their perspective or telling them they are bigots will solve.

As a woman of color, it does annoy me that the standard of beauty is a white woman. The only way for blacks or latinas to look pretty is if they have more European features.

I too have felt the sting of this bias even though I’m white. I’m petite and round-faced. Not the model female put on fashion magazines. But I know what you mean. Unless a woman’s face and body are the right “type” she isn’t supposed to be beautiful. Piffle, I say. A great deal of damage is being done to young women who don’t meet the artificial standard of beauty set by fashion moguls. In reality, every woman has her own kind of beauty. Beauty of spirit, soul, and heart are the kinds of standards we ought to be promoting, yes?

 

[PJH_74]

I’m a person of color, the daughter of immigrants. Growing up I thought racism ended in the 1950s. Then I moved to a different area and entered adolescence. There are some people who have no problem calling someone the n word. Not in the cool hip hop way. They mean it to hurt. I was very shocked by that.
As a woman of color, it does annoy me that the standard of beauty is a white woman. The only way for blacks or latinas to look pretty is if they have more European features.

Thanks for sharing! As women we are exposed to many stereotypes, especially to be the white women perfection we see all over the place. If you don’t mind me asking, would you consider yourself middle class?

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Understandably this likely to prove a hotter topic, but I think it is important that we continue to discuss this issue. To my mind, one of the main issues dividing this country on the topic is the definition of what is racism. A very simplistic definition might be that the white population in this country equates racism with bigotry, whereas minorities see a system and perceptions that work against them.

I think this is a hugely important distinction. I think most white people, when they hear “racism” think of overt discrimination or hatred. Like, calling someone a racial epithet slur, refusing to hire someone because of their race, etc. They think “Well, I don’t do any of that. I’m not racist.”

Minorities tend to have a more expansive definition of racism that includes things like unconscious biases and stereotypes that aren’t necessarily malicious or conscious.

It’s something I think about more and more. I’m a white guy but I’m married to a brown woman, and we’re expecting our first child this fall. That child will obviously be biracial. I wonder how their day to day experience will differ from my own growing up.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

Thanks for sharing! As women we are exposed to many stereotypes, especially to be the white women perfection we see all over the place. If you don’t mind me asking, would you consider yourself middle class?

Middle-class household.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I’m sorry you’ve experienced such incivility and outright nastiness. I think a lot of people who resort to such behavior do it because it makes them feel superior, when they are nothing more than ordinary, or even less than ordinary, within their own circles. And that’s a human failing that, unfortunately, and sadly, no amount of readjusting their perspective or telling them they are bigots will solve.

I too have felt the sting of this bias even though I’m white. I’m petite and round-faced. Not the model female put on fashion magazines. But I know what you mean. Unless a woman’s face and body are the right “type” she isn’t supposed to be beautiful. Piffle, I say. A great deal of damage is being done to young women who don’t meet the artificial standard of beauty set by fashion moguls. In reality, every woman has her own kind of beauty. Beauty of spirit, soul, and heart are the kinds of standards we ought to be promoting, yes?

I think only once I was directly called a racial slur. I didn’t even know the person, it was as I walked by. I have witnessed and heard of other black people being called the n-word. Some of those people called the n-word were JERKS themselves, but there is NO REASON to result to, “you aren’t anything but a n*****r.”

 

[PJH_74]

I think this is a hugely important distinction. I think most white people, when they hear “racism” think of overt discrimination or hatred. Like, calling someone a racial epithet slur, refusing to hire someone because of their race, etc. They think “Well, I don’t do any of that. I’m not racist.”

Minorities tend to have a more expansive definition of racism that includes things like unconscious biases and stereotypes that aren’t necessarily malicious or conscious.

It’s something I think about more and more. I’m a white guy but I’m married to a brown woman, and we’re expecting our first child this fall. That child will obviously be biracial. I wonder how their day to day experience will differ from my own growing up.

Exactly! I wish more white people could articulate exactly what you are saying. I was riding the bus for a while and an (elegant) African American woman would board from time to time with a couple of wonderful kids. It almost brought me tears looking a her little boy, about the same age as mine. I know that, even though he lives in a relatively middle to upper middle class suburb, his innocent little face would likely experience discrimination even though his family “fit” the image of an “acceptable” African American in the white suburbs. I wanted to shield him, as I would want mine, from such things.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Exactly! I wish more white people could articulate exactly what you are saying. I was riding the bus for a while and an (elegant) African American woman would board from time to time with a couple of wonderful kids. It almost brought me tears looking a her little boy, about the same age as mine. I know that, even though he lives in a relatively middle to upper middle class suburb, his innocent little face would likely experience discrimination even though his family “fit” the image of an “acceptable” African American in the white suburbs. I wanted to shield him, as I would want mine, from such things.

We almost need a different word. “Racist” is too strong for people who might have some unconscious stereotypes floating around their heads, but would be horrified at the idea of mistreating someone on the basis of their race. “Racism” is such a loaded term that it tends to get everyone worked up and shut down any meaningful discussion.

 

[PJH_74]

Middle-class household.

I think only once I was directly called a racial slur. I didn’t even know the person, it was as I walked by. I have witnessed and heard of other black people being called the n-word. Some of those people called the n-word were JERKS themselves, but there is NO REASON to result to, “you aren’t anything but a n*****r.”

Thanks for sharing!

It irks me when some whites think racism ended in the 60s. Whether it be exploitation as “free” labor which played a great role in this countries wealth via cotton, the post civil segregation, and now the war on drugs/get tough on crime stuff.

MLK often spoke about how poor whites where in a similar predicament as many blacks, however the enforcement of race (and stereotypes) created a divide that helped people remain in power.

 

[PJH_74]

We almost need a different word. “Racist” is too strong for people who might have some unconscious stereotypes floating around their heads, but would be horrified at the idea of mistreating someone on the basis of their race. “Racism” is such a loaded term that it tends to get everyone worked up and shut down any meaningful discussion.

I agree…but then biased, disadvantaged, systemic, and “I don’t see color” have also been taken.

 

[Della]

I think only once I was directly called a racial slur. I didn’t even know the person, it was as I walked by. I have witnessed and heard of other black people being called the n-word. Some of those people called the n-word were JERKS themselves, but there is NO REASON to result to, “you aren’t anything but a n*****r.”

I agree. And again, I’m so sorry you’ve experienced this kind of hatred/bigotry. There is, indeed, no excuse for it–those who do such things are jerks. The most charitable thing one can say about them is they might be mentally disturbed, but if they do such things deliberately, knowingly, and with full consent of their will, it is just plain evil. :sad_yes:

 

[exnihilo]

It irks me when some whites think racism ended in the 60s. Whether it be exploitation as “free” labor which played a great role in this countries wealth via cotton, the post civil segregation, and now the war on drugs/get tough on crime stuff.

MLK often spoke about how poor whites where in a similar predicament as many blacks, however the enforcement of race (and stereotypes) created a divide that helped people remain in power.

My question is what about racist Blacks? Why does no one ever seem concerned about Black racism. It is just as real as White racism however you define the term.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

My question is what about racist Blacks? Why does no one ever seem concerned about Black racism. It is just as real as White racism however you define the term.

Yeah, people who think racial biases are unique to white people are kind of ridiculous.

 

[PJH_74]

My question is what about racist Blacks? Why does no one ever seem concerned about Black racism. It is just as real as White racism however you define the term.

Sure there are minorities that don’t like whites. But, assuming you are white, does being owned, segregated, or imprisoned at a 1 to 7 rate figure in your family’s existence?

I really hate to be the white person speaking for the minority community, because I can’t. However, being white, I can say this sort of argument is usually a deflection.

 

[starlady88]

I think this is a hugely important distinction. I think most white people, when they hear “racism” think of overt discrimination or hatred. Like, calling someone a racial epithet slur, refusing to hire someone because of their race, etc. They think “Well, I don’t do any of that. I’m not racist.”

Minorities tend to have a more expansive definition of racism that includes things like unconscious biases and stereotypes that aren’t necessarily malicious or conscious.

It’s something I think about more and more. I’m a white guy but I’m married to a brown woman, and we’re expecting our first child this fall. That child will obviously be biracial. I wonder how their day to day experience will differ from my own growing up.

I agree. I am a white woman engaged to a Hispanic man. I also work primarily with Spanish-speaking immigrants. These things have really caused me to contemplate myself and the greater society. Some things happen that don’t bother me that much, but make my fiance uncomfortable. Just yesterday, we were finishing up dinner at a restaurant, and he suddenly wanted to leave. We were ready to go anyway, but as we were walking out the door, he asked me if I heard the other couple talking two tables over. We were the only two couples in the area. I wasn’t paying attention, but he said they were making somewhat rude comments to each other about how we were speaking Spanish. Personally, I do not really care what other people think of us, but he sometimes feels bad because he doesn’t want anyone to say anything rude to me or to us. It’s something that I just don’t think about as frequently.

It is sad that so many people (of any ethnic background) still hold on to prejudices, pronounced or subtle, that oftentimes have very little truth to them.

 

[Sarcelle]

My question is what about racist Blacks? Why does no one ever seem concerned about Black racism. It is just as real as White racism however you define the term.

Racism is sin no matter who practices it.

Anyone can be a racist.

You can say it is an equal opportunity employer. Anyone, no matter the race, sex, age, belief, education, social class, sexual orientation, can be a racist.

We should all speak out against it.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Sure there are minorities that don’t like whites. But, assuming you are white, does being owned, segregated, or imprisoned at a 1 to 7 rate figure in your family’s existence?

I really hate to be the white person speaking for the minority community, because I can’t. However, being white, I can say this sort of argument is usually a deflection.

Yeah, don’t be the white person with the savior complex. That’s not a great look, so to speak.

You’re not wrong, in my opinion, but I think we should remember that not every problem that disproportionately affects black Americans is due to racism (at least, not directly.)

 

[PJH_74]

Yeah, don’t be the white person with the savior complex. That’s not a great look, so to speak.

More than agreed and it’s easy to fall into.

You’re not wrong, in my opinion, but I think we should remember that not every problem that disproportionately affects black Americans is due to racism (at least, not directly.)

Indeed I feel you are totally correct, it’s the indirect stuff that is the hardest to root out. It even stymied MLK in Chicago.

 

[AdamP88]

I’m a person of color, the daughter of immigrants. Growing up I thought racism ended in the 1950s. Then I moved to a different area and entered adolescence. There are some people who have no problem calling someone the n word. Not in the cool hip hop way. They mean it to hurt. I was very shocked by that.
As a woman of color, it does annoy me that the standard of beauty is a white woman. The only way for blacks or latinas to look pretty is if they have more European features.

Why? To be honest I think that there probably exists an inbuilt sexual/attraction preference among “racial” groups for people who look similar enough to them. I don’t think that’s a racist thing. Obviously there are exceptions, otherwise there would never be mixed-race marriages. But in all fairness, every culture has it’s own standard of beauty and that changes through time. If you look at European Renaissance art the ideal woman is generally bigger and rounder than what is presented as the ideal in the 21st century.

To answer the OP question, I think this “race” issue is something that is probably a thing in the US but is being exported picked up by the PC Police in other countries. My experience as a mixed-race (Irish-African) man in Ireland is that there is very few issues and little discussion about race. People generally get the same treatment no matter what. Obviously there are incidents of racist behaviour. I’ve been called names before…but the people behind this are usually just morons anyway…and the typical Irish response is to tell them to feck off.