Racial perceptions

[exnihilo]

I hope you are trolling, but I’m afraid that’s not the case. In my metro area, the vast majority (maybe 80%) of murders are gang on gang type killings in specific black neighborhood where no “white” or for that matter anyone would want to go.

There are plenty of social and economic reasons why the past matters greatly in this case, but I’m sure you don’t care so I won’t waste my breath. This naked Alt-right distortion of non-reality to make you the victim makes me sick.

I’m not trolling. I’m not sure why you’d even say that. I don’t understand your mentioning of neighborhoods and its relevance.

I’m well acquainted with the justification of Black society due to history. So no need to tell me. But you didn’t answer my question. If the past matters why doesn’t my experience of racism against me by Blacks matter? Such a double standard would be the epitome of racism.

 

[PJH_74]

He’s not trolling. While the majority of violence in low-income black areas is against other black people, it is not limited to black people. I recall a video that came out recently from one of the Black Lives Matter pro
him, and walked out…

[Cut]

…where the protesters were shouting “death to all white cops.”

There are plenty of examples of this type of behavior.

Taken from the FBI itself:

White on White - 2509
White on Black - 189
Black on White - 409
Black on Black - 2245

ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

In short, “blacks” and “whites” are way more likely to kill their own.

Also, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason white people don’t want to go there is specifically because it’s so violent? Would you want to take your family to the middle of an active war zone?

No. Nor would anyone, including minorities, or the people stuck there for various reasons.

And I’m sure you’re not interested in actually reviewing the facts of these cases because it doesn’t fit your “black are always the victims” mentality. There are aggressors on both sides of the field.

Why are people “aggressors” here?

Don’t try and pretend there aren’t. You can only use historic racist policies as an excuse for so long. Eventually, the culture needs to take responsibility for what it’s own decisions (such as the almost complete loss of the concept of fatherhood in lower socio-economic classes) have wrought.

It’s about the accumulation of wealth and opportunity passed onto future. “Whites” tend to flee from the poor neighborhoods. They have the money to buy more expensive houses and the better schools to fund them. Education is a huge factor in getting better jobs and the cycle continues. Historic poverty from slavery to segregation to punitive drug sentencing are why history is still relevant.

“Personal responsibility”, as you would insinuate, are a plethora of issues that affect poverty in general of which “Black” populations are more likely to be a part of. Have you also considered what an incarceration rate of 500 to 700% for “Blacks” over “White” men does to a community? Put this in your favorite search engine if you don’t believe me and if you think “Black” men are naturally more criminal than that, you may need to deeply think about your attitudes. People that are incarcerated have poor employment opportunities once they get out and such things easily mess with families and single parent rates. This all is living history that does matter and it’s unfortunately not going away anytime soon.

 

[Lea101]

I’m not trolling. I’m not sure why you’d even say that. I don’t understand your mentioning of neighborhoods and its relevance.

I’m well acquainted with the justification of Black society due to history. So no need to tell me. But you didn’t answer my question. If the past matters why doesn’t my experience of racism against me by Blacks matter? Such a double standard would be the epitome of racism.

The past matters to them because the hatred some of them have against white people is due to the past (or present, for those who experienced it), not some random delusions about white people not being true humans, dirty, stupid etc

This doesn’t mean that hurting white people is okay, and it should not be encouraged at all. I do see comments (like someone saying that they don’t help white homeless people) and it is sooo wrong. People also tend to ignore stuff like this and pretend that there is no hatred at all on their end.

However, the knee jerk reaction you will likely receive is there because racism against black people (in particular) is much more complex and is on a larger scale than the racism white people face. They see the way their loved ones were/are being treated. They see the history. And it’s not that long ago. So you might come across as someone who is trying to trivialise their experiences by saying that what you go through is as bad as their experience.

It might sound like we are playing the oppression olympics, but we should all agree that racism is a very, very complex issue

 

[PJH_74]

I’m not trolling. I’m not sure why you’d even say that. I don’t understand your mentioning of neighborhoods and its relevance.

I’m well acquainted with the justification of Black society due to history. So no need to tell me. But you didn’t answer my question. If the past matters why doesn’t my experience of racism against me by Blacks matter? Such a double standard would be the epitome of racism.

The neighborhood comment is to point to one of the reasons “blacks” committing murders is mostly on their own community. See my above response to ProdglArchitect for history and its relevance. I’m not sure what you mean by BLM being racist against you unless you were personally specifically attacked. BLM is not an anti-white movement, it’s a response from a community that is tired of being harassed and ignored. To use some select videos to nullify that point while claiming you are being hurt by it is ridiculous. As, I assume, that you are a white heterosexual male this makes it difficult to see the extra privilege and opportunity it provides in American culture.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Taken from the FBI itself:

White on White - 2509
White on Black - 189
Black on White - 409
Black on Black - 2245

…
(sorry, had to clip for length)

In short, “blacks” and “whites” are way more likely to kill their own.

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I’m not sure if you missed the point, or if you’re ignoring it, but the other poster was saying that there is plenty of racially-motivated black-on-white crime, which you denied. However, it is a true statement, as your own evidence supports. The fact that there’s less doesn’t make it insignificant.

No. Nor would anyone, including minorities, or the people stuck there for various reasons.

I agree, but that doesn’t change the fact that you can’t blame white people for avoiding those areas, or for being wary of individuals who come from them.

Why are people “aggressors” here?

I honestly couldn’t say. I don’t understand it, and think it’s stupid.

It’s about the accumulation of wealth and opportunity passed onto future. “Whites” tend to flee from the poor neighborhoods. They have the money to buy more expensive houses and the better schools to fund them. Education is a huge factor in getting better jobs and the cycle continues. Historic poverty from slavery to segregation to punitive drug sentencing are why history is still relevant.

You can’t use “education” as an excuse. Education is freely available to everyone willing to utilize it. Everybody has access to free schools. It’s not the lack of education that’s the issue, it’s the unwillingness to make use of the opportunities that have been presented.

Again, looking at my wife’s school, it used to be the second or third ranked school in its city, which has eight high schools. Then, after a change in zoning and the relocation of several low income, minority neighborhoods, the school is now one of the two worst in the city. It took one year to go from the top of the rankings to the bottom. The teachers didn’t change, the curriculum didn’t change. The testing didn’t change. The only thing that changed was the students. You cannot blame historical racism or worse educational opportunities for generational poverty when those same people who are supposedly victims refuse to take advantage of the opportunities they receive.

Then, the cycle continues. Their kids don’t see any point in trying because their parents didn’t. They don’t have a positive example, and think that there are no other options for them. That is the fault of the culture they grow up in, not some outside force that’s holding them back.

There are several students at my wife’s school that are succeeding and overcoming this culture to make something of themselves. They have all the same disadvantages as the other students, but they actually apply themselves. All it takes is the effort to succeed.

As for the punitive drug sentencing, here’s a thought. Don’t do drugs. Problem solved. You can’t complain that people are going to jail for breaking the law.

“Personal responsibility”, as you would insinuate, are a plethora of issues that affect poverty in general of which “Black” populations are more likely to be a part of. Have you also considered what an incarceration rate of 500 to 700% for “Blacks” over “White” men does to a community? Put this in your favorite search engine if you don’t believe me and if you think “Black” men are naturally more criminal than that, you may need to deeply think about your attitudes. People that are incarcerated have poor employment opportunities once they get out and such things easily mess with families and single parent rates. This all is living history that does matter and it’s unfortunately not going away anytime soon.

I have considered what the incarceration rate does. It destroys the family and leaves children fatherless, further perpetuating the problem. What you’re ignoring, however, is the fact that they’re incarcerated for a reason. If you commit a crime, you will be incarcerated. If you want to be there for your family, then don’t be a criminal. It’s not white people’s fault that so many black men chose to engage in criminal behavior. Are the sentences generally longer for black men? I believe so, and that needs to be corrected; however, that doesn’t have any effect on the actual number of people committing crimes.

I’m not saying that black individual are naturally more geared towards crime. That’s stupid. However, when you have a culture, of their own making, which glorifies criminal behavior and demeans self-advancement, then you’re going to have a higher number of criminals. That’s nobody’s fault but their own, and the celebrities they idolize that glorify immorality and excess.

You’re talking as if police pick up random black people on the street and plop them in jail to ruin their lives. I admit, this probably does happen from time to time, but in the majority of cases, more black men go to jail because more black men commit crimes. Period. Once again, this is a problem in the culture which needs to be addressed from within. No outside force can correct this flawed trajectory.

I’m not trying to say that racism doesn’t exist, or that black people haven’t been given a bum rap for quite a while. However, what you, and many other people who think like you, need to realize is that the majority of damage being done to black people is the result of negative influences, practices, and outlooks that are the result of their own culture.

 

[PJH_74]

That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. I’m not sure if you missed the point, or if you’re ignoring it, but the other poster was saying that there is plenty of racially-motivated black-on-white crime, which you denied. However, it is a true statement, as your own evidence supports. The fact that there’s less doesn’t make it insignificant.

It’s quite a leap to say a statistical killing or another is because of racial motives; at any rate white are killing blacks too. My basic point here…intra communal violence is a much larger problem.

You can’t use “education” as an excuse. Education is freely available to everyone willing to utilize it. Everybody has access to free schools. It’s not the lack of education that’s the issue, it’s the unwillingness to make use of the opportunities that have been presented.

Again, looking at my wife’s school, it used to be the second or third ranked school in its city, which has eight high schools. Then, after a change in zoning and the relocation of several low income, minority neighborhoods, the school is now one of the two worst in the city. It took one year to go from the top of the rankings to the bottom. The teachers didn’t change, the curriculum didn’t change. The testing didn’t change. The only thing that changed was the students. You cannot blame historical racism or worse educational opportunities for generational poverty when those same people who are supposedly victims refuse to take advantage of the opportunities they receive.

Then, the cycle continues. Their kids don’t see any point in trying because their parents didn’t. They don’t have a positive example, and think that there are no other options for them. That is the fault of the culture they grow up in, not some outside force that’s holding them back.

There are several students at my wife’s school that are succeeding and overcoming this culture to make something of themselves. They have all the same disadvantages as the other students, but they actually apply themselves. All it takes is the effort to succeed.

I’m not sure how the tax base of your school system looks, but this point does not negate richer families moving to better districts. The real issue I see in your comments is that poverty equals lack of initiative, I completely refuse to accept that poor people are any less smart or hard working. What you miss and seem to blow off is the toll being poor puts on people, personal abilities or not. Good for the few that are succeeding, but realize the bar was much higher to get there.

It’s not white people’s fault that so many black men chose to engage in criminal behavior. Are the sentences generally longer for black men? I believe so, and that needs to be corrected; however, that doesn’t have any effect on the actual number of people committing crimes.

500 to 700% I might believe something like 30% maybe even 100% more might be baked into the situation incarcerated black men find themselves in. But writing off this fact is one of the central issues of systematic racism in this country is irresponsible . And yes it is a white issue. We disproportionately hold the reins of power in this country. If you can’t even see the issue from a social justice issue, consider the costs of jail and the burden on our social support systems the effect on your tax dollars.

 

[exnihilo]

However, the knee jerk reaction you will likely receive is there because racism against black people (in particular) is much more complex and is on a larger scale than the racism white people face. They see the way their loved ones were/are being treated. They see the history. And it’s not that long ago. So you might come across as someone who is trying to trivialise their experiences by saying that what you go through is as bad as their experience.

No, I think racism is racism. It isn’t really complex. There might be more racism against Blacks from Whites but that could just be because there are far more Whites. If you don’t think Blacks can be and are just as racist as Whites then I think you may not have truly experienced the world.

I think the constant reminder of historical racism does nothing but create an attitude in Blacks that promotes disunity.

The neighborhood comment is to point to one of the reasons “blacks” committing murders is mostly on their own community. See my above response to ProdglArchitect for history and its relevance. I’m not sure what you mean by BLM being racist against you unless you were personally specifically attacked. BLM is not an anti-white movement, it’s a response from a community that is tired of being harassed and ignored. To use some select videos to nullify that point while claiming you are being hurt by it is ridiculous. As, I assume, that you are a white heterosexual male this makes it difficult to see the extra privilege and opportunity it provides in American culture.

I never mentioned BLM. I was talking about Black racism. For instance Blacks saying they want a Black person to have a particular job and not a White person. Or Blacks attacking White people. I am saying I have been attacked by a group of Blacks. I’ve had friends attacked by a group of Blacks. So if I didn’t trust or was afraid of Black people because of my personal experience would I be racist? Because if I was Black and the reverse had happened to me I apparently wouldn’t be. I’d in that case be rightly justified in my attitude. I didn’t find any alleged privilege saved me from being physically assaulted. Apparently the Blacks who attacked me weren’t all that worried about the racist criminal justice system or anything like that.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

It’s quite a leap to say a statistical killing or another is because of racial motives; at any rate white are killing blacks too. My basic point here…intra communal violence is a much larger problem.

Noone is denying that. We’re only seeking to correct your apparent misconception / faulty assertion that black on white violence can’t be racially motivated.

I’m not sure how the tax base of your school system looks, but this point does not negate richer families moving to better districts. The real issue I see in your comments is that poverty equals lack of initiative, I completely refuse to accept that poor people are any less smart or hard working. What you miss and seem to blow off is the toll being poor puts on people, personal abilities or not. Good for the few that are succeeding, but realize the bar was much higher to get there.

You can accept it or not, I’m speaking from first hand experience. If all people are equally motivated then, given equivalent opportunities (which they had when they arrived at the “better” school"), they would also succeed in equal measure. From a purely objective standpoint, they did not. Not even close. This is not to say they are inherently less intelligent, or event inherently less motivated; simply that there is a cultural reality which results in them being less likely to succeed. Once again, that is not something that can be fixed from outside. It also cannot be blamed on external forces, since, again, when they got to the school they had all the same opportunities as the other students.

I recognize that being poor puts a toll on people, but that doesn’t excuse a refusal to put forth any effort. She’s had several students literally say that it doesn’t matter how they do because they just plan to live on welfare. That is a cultural reality (not limited to black culture) which is harming them, and which needs to be corrected.

500 to 700% I might believe something like 30% maybe even 100% more might be baked into the situation incarcerated black men find themselves in. But writing off this fact is one of the central issues of systematic racism in this country is irresponsible . And yes it is a white issue. We disproportionately hold the reins of power in this country. If you can’t even see the issue from a social justice issue, consider the costs of jail and the burden on our social support systems the effect on your tax dollars.

One, I already agreed that it’s deplorable and needs to stop. Two, it doesn’t make white people responsible for the fact that more black men choose to commit crimes. The length of the sentence doesn’t change the fact that they did something to land them in jail. You’re looking at the outcome as the only problem instead of acknowledging the thing that makes that outcome possible. While sentencing may well be subject to systematic racism, racism is not what causes people to commit the crimes that are landing them in jail.

I’m dropping out of this conversation. I have a deadline I need to focus on. I encourage you to look at this a little more objectively, and consider the fact that maybe the culture is more to blame than external forces. (Similar to the decline of American culture in general…)

 

[starshiptrooper]

To the larger discussion. I do think we are headed to a reality of much intermarriage. In coming decades we’ll see such a beautiful spectrum of brown that racism in any form will, by its nature, will be reduced.

So racism ends when whites are no more. Well at least you are honest about that.

Taken from the FBI itself:

White on White - 2509
White on Black - 189
Black on White - 409
Black on Black - 2245

So blacks commit double the interracial murders compared to whites despite being 1/5 of the size of the white population. If the situation was reversed I bet Black Lives Matter would be burning down another city right now.

 

[Lea101]

No, I think racism is racism. It isn’t really complex. There might be more racism against Blacks from Whites but that could just be because there are far more Whites. If you don’t think Blacks can be and are just as racist as Whites then I think you may not have truly experienced the world.

I think the constant reminder of historical racism does nothing but create an attitude in Blacks that promotes disunity.

I don’t agree, to be honest. A white person calling a black person a n____r is obviously different from a black person calling a white person a cracker. If we look at the morality of it, they are equally bad, sure. Both are being uncharitable.

But the anti black sentiment has such a long history, that racism against blacks is seen as “worse” for some reason. Because it is not just hate, but it is seen as a continuation of what they have been experiencing for a long time. The stereotypes, the slurs, the misconceptions about black people didn’t really change. The stereotypes, comments etc against white people are kind of new. This doesn’t justify violence, of course, but you see why people care more about a certain type of racism.

So yes, racism is different. The racism I experience is different from say, black people in the US, for obvious reasons. Are my experiences invalid? Nope, same goes for you. I know there are many people who act like white people cannot experience prejudice, and I hope nobody here believes that.

I do agree that the past does create disunity. I don’t think we should pretend it never happened, but the way how it’s bring handled by the left definitely encourages people to see themselves as perpetual victims. I think emphasis on the future (eg discussions on how to improve the relationship, how a minority can succeed, etc). A shocking amount of people fall into the trap of believing that their race is the only thing holding them back from success, when usually it’s a non issue/a minor issue because they sincerely believe white people are still the same.

 

[AdamP88]

In many racial groups, the standard of beauty is influenced by white people. Many koreans want double eyelids, sharper noses etc. I’m Indian, and in my “community”, a lot of us tend to favor lighter skin, lighter eyes and so on. In black communities, you still see people being very self conscious about their natural hair, noses or lips. There was this speech I heard by a black model. She talked about how she wished she was fair skinned and she would pray to Jesus constantly. Generally, if you look part white/ambiguous, you are considered beautiful.

So while it’s not explicit racism, there is still a very subtle mentality that their “ethnic looks” aren’t pretty enough. Of course, now models of different ethnicities are beginning to be more appreciated and with representation, this will reduce

I would say that it’s not racism at all but simply a reflection of the fact that western colonialism has impacted on what is considered beautiful in this day and age. If we’re going to look at every attitude and preference of whites as a trigger or micro aggression toward us then we’re heading toward snowflake land. I’ve been racially profiled in Dublin airport before. I have people ask me at work: where are you originally from? Sure, maybe I look like I’m more likely to start shooting the place up and shouting Allahu Akbar. Why worry about it. We’re likely all going to be brown in 300 years or so. Especially with the way whites are breeding themselves out of existence. I agree that perceptions will probably change with time. But from my perspective it seems silly to worry about race.

 

[Lea101]

I would say that it’s not racism at all but simply a reflection of the fact that western colonialism has impacted on what is considered beautiful in this day and age. If we’re going to look at every attitude and preference of whites as a trigger or micro aggression toward us then we’re heading toward snowflake land. I’ve been racially profiled in Dublin airport before. I have people ask me at work: where are you originally from? Sure, maybe I look like I’m more likely to start shooting the place up and shouting Allahu Akbar. Why worry about it. We’re likely all going to be brown in 300 years or so. Especially with the way whites are breeding themselves out of existence. I agree that perceptions will probably change with time. But from my perspective it seems silly to worry about race.

It’s not racism that we are familiar with (discrimination), but the word is used because European features are seen as “better” (edit: can be caused by racism or it can cause racism. People who look very “ethnic” are looked down upon by people in their own communities, and people also tend to favor European people blah blah)

Colorism is a better term to describe it, imo.

Worrying about race all the time is unnecessary, sure. But being aware of certain issues (but not letting it define you and enable you in your victimhood) does not automatically mean we will all be snowflakes

 

[Crown_of_Stars]

I’m a mix of Indian and Italian, but more Indian, and I look it. I have dark hair, now stranded with the silver of my middleage, and my skin is what I would call a deep golden olive, or dark yellowish brown. I don’t understand why there ever even was and is racism in the first place. It’s cruel, and rooted, I feel, in, of course, prejudice, and pride. It is that of a Jane Austen novel. Would Jesus hate a certain class of people, just because of what they are? No. I really don’t know why there even are different races. Shouldn’t we all just be one nationality, if we came from two people, Adam and Eve? And what were they? I seriously wonder, just out of curiosity. I’m assuming they lived somewhere in Israel? I’ve never been touched by racism, but I certainly understand what victims of real racism have gone through, and I know a few, and they are from an older generation, and they’ve talked to me about how they remember certain things. I wonder, truly, why “white” is considered more desirable, when whites bake on the beach and lie in tanning beds and even wear fake tan to look dark. Wouldn’t “dark” be considered, then, to be more ideal? I have always just thought olive and more golden to light/ medium brown skin is prettier. Remember Coco Chanel? It really does just look prettier to me than fair skin, but I, as mostly Indian, don’t hate whites either, just because I find olive skin to be a little more pretty. To me, fair skin looks too white, pasty, and I don’t like the pinkishness. I just don’t find it all that attractive. If anything, white skin looks better if it has more of a yellowish cast rather than pink, because yellow is more reminiscent of golden. The thing about darker skin is that it looks softer, tinted, glowing, and honeyed. Think of how people always look better in dim lighting. It’s because it makes their skin look softer and more golden, and it’s just prettier.

 

[PelagiathePenit]

I’m a mix of Indian and Italian, but more Indian, and I look it. I have dark hair, now stranded with the silver of my middleage, and my skin is what I would call a deep golden olive, or dark yellowish brown. I don’t understand why there ever even was and is racism in the first place. It’s cruel, and rooted, I feel, in, of course, prejudice, and pride. It is that of a Jane Austen novel. Would Jesus hate a certain class of people, just because of what they are? No. I really don’t know why there even are different races. Shouldn’t we all just be one nationality, if we came from two people, Adam and Eve? And what were they? I seriously wonder, just out of curiosity. I’m assuming they lived somewhere in Israel? I’ve never been touched by racism, but I certainly understand what victims of real racism have gone through, and I know a few, and they are from an older generation, and they’ve talked to me about how they remember certain things. I wonder, truly, why “white” is considered more desirable, when whites bake on the beach and lie in tanning beds and even wear fake tan to look dark. Wouldn’t “dark” be considered, then, to be more ideal? I have always just thought olive and more golden to light/ medium brown skin is prettier. Remember Coco Chanel? It really does just look prettier to me than fair skin, but I, as mostly Indian, don’t hate whites either, just because I find olive skin to be a little more pretty. To me, fair skin looks too white, pasty, and I don’t like the pinkishness. I just don’t find it all that attractive. If anything, white skin looks better if it has more of a yellowish cast rather than pink, because yellow is more reminiscent of golden. The thing about darker skin is that it looks softer, tinted, glowing, and honeyed. Think of how people always look better in dim lighting. It’s because it makes their skin look softer and more golden, and it’s just prettier.

Light-skinned East Asian with the yellowish undertone is so lovely.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-w5VttKqgGNo/VUr-SJTnYTI/AAAAAAAAEqY/xT9QDgC26zw/s1600/Shiori%2BKutsuna%2B-%2BRan%2B03.jpg