Racial segregation

[DavidJoseph]

I apologize in advance if this isn’t in the correct forum; it seemed like there were several forums that would be appropriate for my question.

I know a few people (Catholics, actually) who see absolutely nothing wrong with racial segregation – they’re essentially what one would call “white nationalists.” They claim not to hate anyone or believe that anyone is better than anybody else. And they believe in equal rights for all. But at the same time these people believe that races should be segregated (because after all, according to them, most people tend to associate with those of the same race). Furthermore, they claim that segregation is how it always was – EVERYWHERE – until the 1960s, and they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races. Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments, but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bluegoat]

I think it is always foolish, and could be sinful; it probably is most of the time.

It is possible to imagine a person who is just such a fool that he accepts this teaching from his parents or something, or perhaps someone quite young. And in the past it was a dominant idea and so more people would be in such a position.

But I think you would have to ask, why would someone, especially a Catholic, believe this? It has no scientific or theological basis, and it doesn’t really square with the message of Christ, and the Church has spoken clearly against it. It would be hard to imagine a Catholic who didn’t know the Church’s teaching on this.

Pride? Hatred to others? Fear, disdain? Vanity? The need to separate oneself from others and be better? Lack of love, failing to see Christ in all people?

All of those things could indeed be sinful.

 

[ringil]

I apologize in advance if this isn’t in the correct forum; it seemed like there were several forums that would be appropriate for my question.

I know a few people (Catholics, actually) who see absolutely nothing wrong with racial segregation – they’re essentially what one would call “white nationalists.” They claim not to hate anyone or believe that anyone is better than anybody else. And they believe in equal rights for all. But at the same time these people believe that races should be segregated (because after all, according to them, most people tend to associate with those of the same race). Furthermore, they claim that segregation is how it always was – EVERYWHERE – until the 1960s, and they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races. Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments, but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

Thanks in advance.

There is no support for this type of thinking in Catholic moral or social teaching.

Race is a social construct. We are all God’s children and efforts to seperate preceived race are evil.

 

[JRKH]

I apologize in advance if this isn’t in the correct forum; it seemed like there were several forums that would be appropriate for my question.

I know a few people (Catholics, actually) who see absolutely nothing wrong with racial segregation – they’re essentially what one would call “white nationalists.” They claim not to hate anyone or believe that anyone is better than anybody else. And they believe in equal rights for all.

I’m glad they believe in equal rights for all. I assume that freedom of association should likewise be equal.

But at the same time these people believe that races should be segregated (because after all, according to them, most people tend to associate with those of the same race).

If they believe in what is in parentheses then they already HAVE de-facto segregation while preserving equal rights. What else do they desire be done that would not infringe on the “equal rights for all” that they claim to believe in?

Furthermore, they claim that segregation is how it always was – EVERYWHERE – until the 1960s, and they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races.

Well this is where you get into the just plain silliness. God did not create "countries, men did. As for segregation being how it always was - everywhere before the 1960’s, I don’t know, but I suspect that other members of our world wide base of posters can shed some light…

Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Again, that is fine for them personally to make that choice, but if they truly believe in “equal rights for all” then they can’t tell others who they can and cannot marry.

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments,

It’s difficult to intelligently refute something that is not based on an intelligent argument.

but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

These kinds of views are morally problematic because, even though they claim to believe in equal rights, they also would support things that create inequality.
I mean how "separate are they talking about. Living? marriage? Sports? Schools? Business? Military? Countries? When does “separate” begin to infringe on equality?
“Separate but Equal” was “tried” in this country but while separate was enforced, “equal” was denied.

We are to Love each other, no matter Race, Creed, Color or whatever. Loving another means wanting the best for that person.
How does supporting segregation fulfill the command to Love one another as Christ Has Loved us?

Peace
James

 

[cmforte]

I apologize in advance if this isn’t in the correct forum; it seemed like there were several forums that would be appropriate for my question.

I know a few people (Catholics, actually) who see absolutely nothing wrong with racial segregation – they’re essentially what one would call “white nationalists.” They claim not to hate anyone or believe that anyone is better than anybody else. And they believe in equal rights for all. But at the same time these people believe that races should be segregated (because after all, according to them, most people tend to associate with those of the same race). Furthermore, they claim that segregation is how it always was – EVERYWHERE – until the 1960s, and they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races. Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments, but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

Thanks in advance.

How can you be a Catholic and be for racial segregation? Much less call yourself a “white nationalist”? Since the Church is universal, what Catholic means, and is truly therefore global and multi-cultural, yet united under the See of Peter, it seems like that would be a contradiction in terms and an impossible long-term imposition. And no, the races weren’t always segregated. No sane anthropoligist or geneticist would agree with that. Whether it is sinful or not, I think only a priest or Bishop could dogmatically declare that. I think it is, for the same reasons some here have already spelled out.

-Chris

 

[Ridgerunner]

Segregation is alive and well in the U.S. A trip through any city will tell you that. It’s just not official or sanctioned by law anymore.

Some of that is undoubtedly racist. Some is economic. But some of it, I think, simply has to do with affiliation. Some people self-segregate simply because they feel comfortable with it. If that wasn’t so, we wouldn’t have “Italian neighborhoods” or “Polish neighborhoods” in cities. Those self-segregations are breaking down, but they still exist.

I’m not entirely sure “white supremacists” or “white segregationists” are totally different in that. It’s just that they further assume certain things they feel are threatening are somehow due to racial or even ethnic mixing; something like the way protestants used to think Catholic church basements were filled with guns against the day when the Pope would take over America.

Even our “elites” are not immune from such instincts. No, they don’t segregate themselves racially (at least not officially) but now and then anti-Catholicism or anti-Semitism bobs to the surface. The PhD who declaims against “imposing your Catholic morality on me” is not all that different from the deep country hillbilly who thinks “the Jews” intend to run the country, using Blacks as “foot soldiers” in the effort.

 

[Hastrman]

Even our “elites” are not immune from such instincts. No, they don’t segregate themselves racially (at least not officially) but now and then anti-Catholicism or anti-Semitism bobs to the surface. The PhD who declaims against “imposing your Catholic morality on me” is not all that different from the deep country hillbilly who thinks “the Jews” intend to run the country, using Blacks as “foot soldiers” in the effort.

Replace Blacks with white Evangelicals and you actually have the majority opinion of the Democratic Party.

Admittedly, they are polite enough to say “Zionists”, “the Israel lobby”, or “neo-cons” rather than “Jews”, but those first two are a bit obvious, and that last one was pretty much founded by a bunch of ex-Trotskyite Jewish intellectuals (they retained the revolutionary zeal, hence the penchant for nation-building).

 

[raaucoin]

they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races. Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments, but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

Thanks in advance.

You might try reminding them that the Sacrament of Matrimony is often celebrated by the Church with couples who are Bi/multi racial.

 

[DavidJoseph]

You might try reminding them that the Sacrament of Matrimony is often celebrated by the Church with couples who are Bi/multi racial.

Yeah, I could, but then again, they don’t believe interracial marriage is sinful per se; they just think it’s foolish.

 

[Rand2410]

I apologize in advance if this isn’t in the correct forum; it seemed like there were several forums that would be appropriate for my question.

I know a few people (Catholics, actually) who see absolutely nothing wrong with racial segregation – they’re essentially what one would call “white nationalists.” They claim not to hate anyone or believe that anyone is better than anybody else. And they believe in equal rights for all. But at the same time these people believe that races should be segregated (because after all, according to them, most people tend to associate with those of the same race). Furthermore, they claim that segregation is how it always was – EVERYWHERE – until the 1960s, and they say that God meant it that way because He created all the separate countries for the different races. Needless to say, they also oppose interracial marriage, citing “biblical” reasons against it (e.g. God forbidding intermarriage between certain groups in the Old Testament).

Of course, I need to know how to intelligently refute such arguments, but most especially, I need to know – is there ANY moral problem with believing that races should stay “separate but equal”? It’s foolish to hold such views, of course, but sinful?

Thanks in advance.

I am a Catholic and of mixed ethnicity. I say let people live how they wish to live.

 

[St_Francis]

Tell these guys to stay away from Brazil, where most people are of mixed ancestry and there is very little notice of race.

One of the things I love about the Catholic–Universal!-- Church is that when I go to Mass I will see people of all different kinds: all races, different national origins, all socio-economic levels, all together in one church worshipping together. Maybe this makes a more profound impression on me because I am in the South, where so many other eccesial communities are voluntarily segregated by race (mostly because of denomination).

Personally I think this is just dumb, and there is certainly no basis for this in our Scripture or Tradition. In fact, I would say it is more American-Protestant than anything else; while there is now racial tension in Europe, this is more cultural than racial, between immigrants and non-immigrants. Historically, Europeans have not bothered much about race, and the first American woman to achieve the Croix de Guerre was Josephine Baker, an African-American who settled in France where they didn’t have segregation.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

Catholic and segregation doesn’t make sense. It just doesn’t .

If you are a Catholic and are for segregation based on race, I’m guessing you are in mortal sin (but who am I to judge? ).

But, if you feel more comfortable around people that are your own race (polish, irish, etc.), there isn’t anything wrong about that if you aren’t against other people’s race, like, for instance, Swiss.