Racism and Genocide in America by the US Government

[Ani_Ibi]

We want to fight for justice in America and the World, why not start with those who inhabited the land we stole and used for personal gain.

I agree. We have APN now up here in Canada – which is good. But compare how much media First Nations get compared to other groups inside and outside Canada. There is one tv-evangelist I know of the whole assortment whose ministry has been the FN in the North – including in Russia. He was thrown out of Russia, btw.

As for non-natives living on the Rez, a neighbour of mine said that a Rez up near Muskoka somewhere had invited her to live there. She is not native. Perhaps she cannot get university benefits though and some of the other benefits available to FN.

I do believe that those benefits are very important to FN people and should be continued as part of the way toward renewal of their communities. Why? Mainly because the injury done to the FN went to the very core of where they belonged.

The Residential Schools did this. The folks who came out of those schools were not welcome on the lands seized by the English, nor did they understand the ways of the land still occupied by their ancestors. And so their identities and their encounter with life and making a living were impaired – for generations – and still is for many folks.

I gather the 6 Nations, however, are quite prosperous. My Dad used to take me there. They ran their own schools; taught in their own language. Their homes looked to be in good repair. The kids looked healthy and happy.

I asked a FN (Huron) person I knew why this disparity between 6N and other Rezs. She said because the 6N federated themselves and other Nations remained small and isolated. Thoughts on this, anyone?

Ultimately, I think this discussion begs one question: Immigrants to any other non-American country are expected to adapt to the customs and laws of that country. This did not happen in Canada and elsewhere in the Americas – to the detriment of both FN and immigrants.

There is, as a result, a multi-level confusion as to Canadian identity which Trudeau complicated even further with his ill-begotten Multicultural policy of the late 70’s. Even those whom the MC policy was designed to protect hate it. Why? Because it has no integrity. Multiculturalism is as dumb as its predecessor (bi-culturalism) if it continues to exclude the folks to whom this land belongs.

And it does continue to exclude the folks to whom this land belongs.

How can we call ourselves a country ruled by law if so many treaties remain broken and the breaking of treaties remains enforced at gunpoint? Actually, most folks up here don’t even know their own Constitution and care even less. We were a country of Family Compact. And we still are. Multiculturalism – and even biculturalism – was and is a smokescreen which continues to break hearts and communities.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Sean Boyle:

Can’t most ethinic groups claim these same things.

But are the First Nations people even considered ‘ethnic’?

In evangelizing Upper Canada (Ontario) the bishop in Lower Canada (Quebec) wrote that in order to make Christians of the Indians, the Jesuits should first make them into men. Or something like that. I have lost the link and couldn’t find it last night. That was the Catholic attitude of the time.

On another thread I posted a link to the attitude of Protestants which was imho even worse in its literal demonization of FN peoples.
Sean Boyle:

Racism and geoocide in America by the Government. Irishman, Indians, Muslims, Japanese, the unborn, African Americans. Ultimately aren’t we all a part of one of those ethinic groups in one form or another?

No. For FN peoples to be considered an ethnic group they would have to be pictured as not only comprising many different peoples but also as comprising human beings. Hey, guess what? They are many different peoples. And they are human beings.
Sean Boyle:

Our government isn’t perfect. It will never be.

Perfectionism is the enemy of the good. Government does not have to be perfect in order to be just.
Sean Boyle:

Would you prefer communism?

Relevance?
Sean Boyle:

You think you would have more rights under the iron curtain?

What rights do indigenous folks have under communist regimes? Compare those to the rights enjoyed by FN peoples in American ‘democracies.’

 

[Ani_Ibi]

But nobody has a time machine and that tragedy cannot be undone. So the question becomes ‘What to do now?’

Since this is a Catholic forum, what do people believe the Church should do toward healing this situation?

The Church used to be Middle Eastern. Then it was European. What is it now?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

In fairness, our government never made and then broke a solmen TREATY with any of those you mention!

So a treaty must be made to make the government wrong? The government sponsors through funding of Planned Parenthood the killing of millions of children every year for the last 30 plus years because they ignore them a people.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

But are the First Nations people even considered ‘ethnic’? Your right, I should have used the word minority.

In evangelizing Upper Canada (Ontario) the bishop in Lower Canada (Quebec) wrote that in order to make Christians of the Indians, the Jesuits should first make them into men. Or something like that. I have lost the link and couldn’t find it last night. That was the Catholic attitude of the time.

On another thread I posted a link to the attitude of Protestants which was imho even worse in its literal demonization of FN peoples.

No. For FN peoples to be considered an ethnic group they would have to be pictured as not only comprising many different peoples but also as comprising human beings. Hey, guess what? They are many different peoples. And they are human beings. Your right, each FN group is a different minority.

Perfectionism is the enemy of the good. Government does not have to be perfect in order to be just. The government is run by people. Not everyone can be just. So the government will have people in it that are unjust, but that doesn’t make the whole government unjust. That is using a very broad bush to paint everyone with.

Relevance? Is it the United States Government that you are opposed to or all government?

What rights do indigenous folks have under communist regimes? Compare those to the rights enjoyed by FN peoples in American ‘democracies.’ Are we talking about history or the here and now.

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

There is an interesting term brough up in a couple posts. It’s called Ethnic group. The term can be applied to any group, but a general rule of thumb is that Aboriginal groups are not called “Ethnic” - just those groups that come latter.

I mention this becasue some diocese have an office called Ethnic ministry (or similar title) and they lump the native American ministry into it. Now, I’m not 100% certain if that is best or not, but I hear from a number of the Native folks who have some sort of possition in the Ethnic ministries that reference to us as Ethnic instead of Aboriginal (or other appropriate terms - there are many) sometimes sidelines our goals and projects.

Realy nice people who plan theatrical Liturgies and want to make sure there is a token person from each group has asked for a Native to give a Welcoming speach or blessing at the Mass.

Well, it shows they are starting to catch on. However, I think it is strange to ask for a Welcomeing message long after Ethnics have immpossed themselves without permission or consideration. Please, let Natives speek for themselves and define who they are.

Ive been asked to bring up a bowl of nuts already. I was told this somehow symbolized my ancestory. I smiled my refusal. I embrace Mystery - not shun it. I believe that bread and wine makes a nice offering at Mass, and that Jesus saves us - not that silly bowl of nuts. For the life of me, I have no clue what that nice person was thinking of. I like nuts - but I would have enjoyed them more at some little get together AFTER the Mass

We don’t do stupid things like that in out traditional ceremonies, I certaily don’t want to do it during the divine Mysteries of the Euchartic Liturgy.

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

Since this is a Catholic forum, what do people believe the Church should do toward healing this situation?

The Church used to be Middle Eastern. Then it was European. What is it now?

I have an idea. OK, it was Mid Eastern, then European. Why not make it a Universal Church?

Please forgive me. I just couldn’t help it. I had to say it. Sorry.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Sean Boyle:

Is it the United States Government that you are opposed to or all government?

Did I say that I opposed government? If so, please offer a link to where I said so.
Ani Ibi:

What rights do indigenous folks have under communist regimes? Compare those to the rights enjoyed by FN peoples in American ‘democracies.’

Sean Boyle:

Are we talking about history or the here and now.

Your choice.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

I have an idea. OK, it was Mid Eastern, then European. Why not make it a Universal Church?
Please forgive me. I just couldn’t help it. I had to say it. Sorry.

What would a Universal Church look like?

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

Yo! I’m a military veteran and I’m sure there lots more vets on this thread. One of the things we did was defend the great American right to complain about government and to work for changes. What is this business of “would you be happier under communism” fluff off?

Heck no. Natives, just like all other segments of this country enlisted like crazy in WWII to avoid being ruled by Nazi Germany or Imerial Japan. I was told of some of the speaches given to get our previous generation to enlist. They were enlisting with or without the pep talk. These recruiter officers promised a new deal and better conditions for natives if they enlisted.

Lots of our elders said, “We know thos guys are lieying to us, they always have, but we gotta defend this land. its ours.”

Ja, ja - promises. Inside of two years after winning WWI and stoping the genocide of Nazi Germany, the government that promised us a better deal came up with theri own “final solution to the Indian Prooblem.” That is called the infamous American Indain Termination and Relocation Act.

Complaining about the government is my American duty.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Did I say that I opposed government? If so, please offer a link to where I said so.

That was a direct question?!

Your choice.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Ani Ibi:

Did I say that I opposed government? If so, please offer a link to where I said so.

Sean Boyle:

That was a direct question?!

Did I say that I opposed government? If so, please offer a link to where I said so.

 

[OriginalJS]

Wow, Here in Minnesota tribes own casinos and are filthy rich. They are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us and enjoy highly privileged existences. Most of the employees at the casinos are non-Indian because Indians don’t have to work, they just get their monthly check in the mail. As for sovereignty, the Red Lake Band maintains a closed reservation to which only members are admitted. Two years ago after the Red Lake Massacre even law enforcement and news people were strictly controlled as to their movements. The only time the band is friendly to non-Indians is when they want some help. The Red Lake Band has control of a huge part of Red Lake from which they sell tons of fish and bring in large sums of money. Check it out.

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

Wow, Here in Minnesota tribes own casinos and are filthy rich. They are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us and enjoy highly privileged existences. Most of the employees at the casinos are non-Indian because Indians don’t have to work, they just get their monthly check in the mail. As for sovereignty, the Red Lake Band maintains a closed reservation to which only members are admitted. Two years ago after the Red Lake Massacre even law enforcement and news people were strictly controlled as to their movements. The only time the band is friendly to non-Indians is when they want some help. The Red Lake Band has control of a huge part of Red Lake from which they sell tons of fish and bring in large sums of money. Check it out.

Those assumptions have drifted a bit from the facts. But if the situation was exactly as you describe it – I wonder if you have a problem with Natives having wealth? What laws are they exempt from? How much money does each household recieve from the gambling? How many Natives told you why they are not working at the cassino?

Controls on law enforcement on any of the Reservations was already worked out between local, state and Tribal authorities years before the Red Lake shooting. Most, if not all, of these protocoles have been agreed upon by all parties concerned. Places that do not have Reservations work this out between county, township, state and federal law enforcement. Why is this very normal proceedure a problem when it comes to Reservations?

Did these assumptions come from news paper editorials or radio talk shows? A serious talk with administration officials of each department invovled will give you a totaly different picture. Minnesota State Police, Red Cliff Tribal officials, the local enforcement agencies would not tell you the things you reported here.

If you need assistance in researching these claimes, I will be happy to assist. I have been doing this for almost 40 years. Let me know what laws you think Aboriginals are exempt from, and I will be able to direct you to the appropriate government office for verification.

All government bodies meet regularly to discuss changges in protocoles in accord with changes in society and technologies, etc. This might be between the local law enforcement of your immediate area and the State police, couts systems to court system. And, oddly enough, even with Tribal governments.

Please, I don’t mean to confuse the issue with facts, but that might help calm things down a bit.

 

[Br_Joshua_Seidl]

All the natives in this state have long since been assimilated into the larger society save for a small band who live near Rock Hill. Do we really need or want separate enclaves for everybody? I grew up in a neighborhood that had Syrians, Lebanese, Greeks, Italians and Jews living in it and we all just considered each other people, which is the way it should be. The only way you would know if a person was all or part Indian around here would be if he told you or, perhaps, had a chip on his shoulder about it.

Complaining about the past does nothing for the future. Nothing is holding these people on the reservations. They are free to find employment and housing anywhere they want. As for going back to living the way they once did, it ain’t gonna happen. The country has changed and they also need to change.

I’ll be making my first visit to a reservation next week. It’s in an area where I’ve been told that widespread discrimination off the reservation is the norm. I’ve also been told a few other things that I won’t repeat here because I haven’t seen them for myself and they don’t reflect nicely on a whole group of people. At least I’ll have a week to get an idea of how good or bad life on the reservation is. No matter, though, they still have the choice of remaining isolated from society or becoming a part of it. I think that we and they would be better off if they assimilated rather than trying to keep one foot in the past and the other in the reservation.

Well, I am glad that you believe Native People have a choice. The Pope agrees with you. I am disappointed that you feel assimilation is the key.

The previous Pope and the Pontifical Commission for Peace and Justice offer a different direction for the Church in American and in other countries that have a reservation system for Aboriginal populations other than assimilation. It is called inculturation.

The Vatican commission recognizes that these people have become vestiges of the original populations; survivors of genocides carried out by colonizers and marginalized. Justice requires avoiding two opposing conditions: Not to trap them onto reservations, and not to force them into assimilation without any concern for their right to maintain their identity. The greater or the lesser degree of integration with the surrounding society must be a matter of free choice. It is absurd, the commission and the Pope warned, that Indigenous people should run the risk of being viewed as intruders into their own land.

The solutions are complex. Dismantling the Reservation System and withdrawing from obligations made in solemn oath has been tried in recent times, and with disastrous results. It is not up to the dominate society to be the sole determining authority of what is to be done to or for Native Americans.

Details can be found on the official Vatican Web site. Simply type “Church and racism,” into the Vatican site search engine and you will see a document titled, “PONTIFICAL COMMISSION FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE, The Church and Racism: towards a more fraternal society.”

The information I drew from in this reply is found on pages 10 and 11 of that document.

 

[st_lucy]

Wow, Here in Minnesota tribes own casinos and are filthy rich. They are not subject to the same laws as the rest of us and enjoy highly privileged existences. Most of the employees at the casinos are non-Indian because Indians don’t have to work, they just get their monthly check in the mail. As for sovereignty, the Red Lake Band maintains a closed reservation to which only members are admitted. Two years ago after the Red Lake Massacre even law enforcement and news people were strictly controlled as to their movements. The only time the band is friendly to non-Indians is when they want some help. The Red Lake Band has control of a huge part of Red Lake from which they sell tons of fish and bring in large sums of money. Check it out.

This is an out right lie. I too live in MN and I have not seen the wealth you speak of. Maybe you need to get out of your safe neighborhood and see what really is going on the reservations instead of assuming you know.

 

[geezerbob]

I posted this on another thread a week or so ago. Sorry if any of you are stuck with reading it twice. As far as being filthy rich is concerned, these people get about $3,000 a year in casino profit distribution. Anything over and above that goes to the tribe to pay for administration, schools, scholarships, and municipal services. The only thing I saw there that screamed “rich” was the value of the lakefront property which, like the treasures in the Vatican, if sold, would be gone forever.

I recently returned from a visit to an upper midwest reservation and was appalled at what I saw and heard.

Their hotel and casino reports that 80% of the damages are caused by band members.

Any band member who goes to college (the band pays the tuition in exchange for three years of local work after graduation) or who has a responsible job is immediately labeled an “apple” (red on the outside, white on the inside).

Those who try to better themselves are the victims of frequent burglaries if they manage to accumulate anything worth stealing.

Obesity, alcoholism and drug addiction are almost as high as the unemployment. Most can’t work at the casino because of criminal records and that’s the only game in town.

The majority of the young people (and most of their parents) have absolutely no respect for any authority. This includes their parents, grandparents who are usually raising them, tribal elders, tribal police, teachers, employers, and other civil authorities. One would be hard pressed to find an inner city ghetto that’s any worse.

Admittedly, I saw only those whose obnoxious behavior made them obvious. I was told that there are some decent folks there and I’m sure there are. The problem is that there aren’t enough of them that their behavior becomes the norm to be emulated.

My sources of information, besides first hand observations, were an “apple” who is currently pursuing a college degree, and an employee of the tribal government who, among other things, runs the summer youth employment program.

The problems these people have are so ingrained that I would have no idea how to start helping them to help themselves. They’ve had things handed to them for so long that personal and community responsibility, ambition and hope are all but lost. Regardless of how and why they arrived at this state, it’s going to take a lot more than teaching a kid how to catch a rabbit to turn it around.

 

[guanophore]

I say we abolish Indian Reservations completely.

A statement such as this indicates a gross disrespect for the First Nations people, and an ignorance of American history.

There is nothing worse than having a “nation inside a nation”.

Yes there is. It is foreign invaders coming in and slaughtering the Nations that were here before, taking over their land, raping their culture and their people.

This is America and we should live together in the same society following the same laws as we have done for generations.

And what of the generations that were here before the invasion of Europeans? They had no respect for the manner of Nations living together, respecting the land, and following the laws of their consciences.

To have these isolated communities within our own country is an abomination.

More of an abomination, rather, is the colonialistic attitude that any culture has the right to invade and eradicate another.

There is way too much seperation in this country as it is. As has been pointed out here already, its time to put the past behind us and make a better future for all of us (while jot forgetting the mistakes or successes of the past). There are so many here that want us all to be seperate. They can point out nothing but the differences and injustices that one group has done to another. These people are the problem!

No, I think it is the attitude you represent that is the problem. This attitude of intolerance and arrogance is what causes the injustices that exist in America. The Native people have accepted that they must live in two worlds, yet you refuse to recognize that any other manner of living besides your own has any value.

We need to come together and embrace what it is we have in COMMON. In order for a nation and ultimately a society to survive we must be able to live together harmoniously. Ethnic and racial tension are great weapons of the Devil.

I suggest you stop feeding into them, then. Look at the log that is in your own eye, before you try to take the speck out of others. The racism lives inside yourself! This is evident when you state that another culture unlike your own to exist is an “abomination”. This is the definition of racism.

The Melting Pot of this country needs to be resurrected. For Generations we have been able to bring together people from different backgrounds successfully and become a good nation. It is this ability that has made America a unique and special country in this world. A country worthy of praise.

What has made this nation great is the Grace of Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth. That God revealed to this nations founders that ALL men are created equal, and were endowed with rights by that same God. When you say that other’s right to their culture is an abomination, you trample the ideals of the founding fathers under your feet.

We have lost that ability. We are quickly becoming a polyglot nation where seperate people remain seperate and have absolutely no desire to share anything in common with one another. From language to music to the cloths we wear, enthic differences are lauded as the highest form of civil accomplishment. Unity be damned.

You have certainly presented yourself as an individual who has no respect at all for any of the people that were living in this country before the conquistadores came here. It is very difficult to have unity when one race is cutting off the body parts of another, and forcing “Catholicism” under pain of death.

I ask you this…If we cannot even speak to one another, how are we supposed to live together and respect one another???

You are right, but before you speak to anyone, you might consider an examination and correction of your own racism. You might consider spending some time with First Nations people, so that you can be relieved of some of your prejudice.

Unity, to me, is the greatest accomplishment a society, a culture, a Country can strive for and achieve.

Maybe it is a basic difference in values. Others believe that the greatest accomplishment of a society is to honor and live in harmony with the Creator. This, we believe, results in unity, but a unity based upon the nature of that Creator, and no work or “great accomplishment” of our own.

I realize I have been strong in my words, but I found this post very personally offensive.

 

[geezerbob]

Well, I am glad that you believe Native People have a choice. The Pope agrees with you. I am disappointed that you feel assimilation is the key.

The previous Pope and the Pontifical Commission for Peace and Justice offer a different direction for the Church in American and in other countries that have a reservation system for Aboriginal populations other than assimilation. It is called inculturation.

The Vatican commission recognizes that these people have become vestiges of the original populations; survivors of genocides carried out by colonizers and marginalized. Justice requires avoiding two opposing conditions: Not to trap them onto reservations, and not to force them into assimilation without any concern for their right to maintain their identity. The greater or the lesser degree of integration with the surrounding society must be a matter of free choice. It is absurd, the commission and the Pope warned, that Indigenous people should run the risk of being viewed as intruders into their own land.

The solutions are complex. Dismantling the Reservation System and withdrawing from obligations made in solemn oath has been tried in recent times, and with disastrous results. It is not up to the dominate society to be the sole determining authority of what is to be done to or for Native Americans.

Details can be found on the official Vatican Web site. Simply type “Church and racism,” into the Vatican site search engine and you will see a document titled, “PONTIFICAL COMMISSION FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE, The Church and Racism: towards a more fraternal society.”

The information I drew from in this reply is found on pages 10 and 11 of that document.

What do you propose as a solution? How do you avoid assimilation? How far back do you go? Do we take away the power boats, cars, ATV’s, guns, and even horses, so the natives can live as they once did? How about canned foods, refrigerated meats, and, better yet, alcohol and drugs?

The fact is, these people have at least partially assimilated and, unfortunately, not everything they’ve adopted has been good. There is a program to teach the old ways, but it requires a certain amount of discipline and work. Most of the kids just aren’t interested in even learning about their own culture, much less preserving it, if it requires that they do anything they don’t want to do.

The former chief kept much more of the casino profits for the community rather than individual payouts. The new chief, who according to the rules written by the tribe, is popularly elected, got elected by promising to increase the individual payouts. If the trend continues, they will end up biting the hand that feeds them and will have even less than they have now.

Regardless of which culture they wish to keep, or some combination of the two, too many are currently living in a never-never land, not really being a productive part of either. I personally can’t change the past and am at a loss as to how the government, the Church, or us as individuals can instill in them the motivation to do do something besides sit around and wait on their next casino checks. The problems just go back too many generations and are too ingrained. The tribal leaders appear to be just as perplexed as to how to break this cycle and would, I’m sure, welcome your suggestions.

 

[guanophore]

I have a family member who married an Indian. In talking with her and her husband, they seem to be perfectly content to receive free medical care, free food, very low rent, and their cut of the casino profits every year. From her standpoint, there is gross discrimination against her because she was not born into “the band.” Any job she might find on the reservation is temporary and without benefits and is subject to termination if an Indian wants it.

Interesting! Shoe is on the other foot,then. Except for those without feet, which the Spanish “Catholics” cut off to prevent Natives from running from slavery.