Raffle tickets in the pews at mass

[cheerpul1]

Our parish is constantly fundraising during mass. Raffle tickets are in every pew several times a year, envelopes, other than special diocesan collections are frequestly in the pews, advertisements for rummages sales, fish fries and other events are placed in the pews.

Is this abuse? I am offended, but our priest thinks it’s ok. Perhaps he should sell advertising space on the back of his chausable as well.

For that matter, the school auction fundraiser sells pews for the Christmas mass, several of the church groups that meet regularly drink beer/wine at their meetings in the church basement and keep the leftovers in the refrigerator of the kitchen.

Am I truly a fuddy-duddy or is this over the line?

 

[Brenda_V]

What is wrong with putting these events in the Church Bulletin? I am not sure about
“selling pews” for Christmas Mass, that just seems a bit over the top to me.

Beer at meetngs doesn’t seem to be a bad thing as long as no one drives drunk or preferably no one gets drunk! I am of course assuming that some of these meetings you are talking about are also social gatherings (KofC meeting, etc.)

I think I will join you as being a fuddy duddy or most of what upsets you that you mentioned if that is what it takes to object to them .

 

[cheerpul1]

Brenda,
These events are in the bulletin, and often have people in the back of church who are directly selling them after mass. However, they feel that putting books of raffle tickets and advertising directly into the pews reaches more people.

The school auctioned off a group of pews to the crowded family Christmas mass. It was standing room only and the family who bought them arrived at the last minute, pushing their way through people who had come 20 or more minutes earlier and still had no seat. Father told us only that day about having sold pews and that it was our job (as liturgist and DRE) to keep people from sitting there. I was terribly embarassed and disappointed by the whole situation.

 

[Rawb]

Our priest once in his homily made a comment about when he was a kid; “well, back then you had to buy your pew” but I don’t remember if it was in relation to a Christmas Mass or everyday. He laughed and went on, but I remember it because I was wondering if he was joking or not. Maybe this was once a little more common?

 

[kell0618]

I don’t like the advertisements in the pew, but otherwise, I think you are being a bit of a “fuddy duddy”.

Every year at our school the front pew is ‘auctioned off’ and reserved for the high bidder at our Christmas Eve Mass. We also have standing room only and I am sure to just get there an hour early if I want a seat. I am not sure why you have a problem with that, and why should they come an hour early if they know they will have a seat?

Have you ever attended the school auction? What you purchase directly supports the operation of your parish school and much is tax deductible.

Sorry, you asked.:console: It is costly to operate a school and other than close them all, the money has to come from somewhere.

God bless you,

Kelly

 

[1ke]

Our parish is constantly fundraising during mass. Raffle tickets are in every pew several times a year, envelopes, other than special diocesan collections are frequestly in the pews, advertisements for rummages sales, fish fries and other events are placed in the pews.

No, it’s not “abuse”.

Why do you object to this? First, it costs a lot of money to mail these to people. It makes sense to have them available in the pews for the regulars, and also any visitors who might be interested and otherwise not know about such opportunities.

You aren’t required to take them. I don’t see the problem.

For that matter, the school auction fundraiser sells pews for the Christmas mass,

This is common in churches where pew space at Christmas is highly coveted. It’s the custom in the Church of England to buy your pew-- period. Not just a temporary “perk” on a holiday. I don’t see anything wrong with raffling something people perceive as valuable-- parking spots & reserved pews included.

several of the church groups that meet regularly drink beer/wine at their meetings in the church basement and keep the leftovers in the refrigerator of the kitchen.

What is your objection to adults drinking wine or beer? If they are not drinking to excess, I see no problem. On what grounds do you object?

Am I truly a fuddy-duddy or is this over the line?

Yes, I think you are truly a fuddy-duddy if these are the things that **offend **you.

 

[Morning_Star15]

No, it’s not “abuse”.

Why do you object to this? First, it costs a lot of money to mail these to people. It makes sense to have them available in the pews for the regulars, and also any visitors who might be interested and otherwise not know about such opportunities.

You aren’t required to take them. I don’t see the problem.

Why not place them at the back of the church or better yet, in the narthex, so that people will focus on the Mass and not be looking through these things in their pew? While it may not be morally wrong, I think it’s a distraction from the Mass to have advertisements in the pew - surely there are other places in the church to put them.

This is common in churches where pew space at Christmas is highly coveted. It’s the custom in the Church of England to buy your pew-- period. Not just a temporary “perk” on a holiday. I don’t see anything wrong with raffling something people perceive as valuable-- parking spots & reserved pews included.

I don’t know about this one. On one hand, I guess it is an effective way to raise money, but on the other hand, it sounds like it might create or reinforce social distinctions among the congregation, with the richer families getting good seats while the poorer ones have to sit way at the back or stand. A central tenet of Christianity is its promotion of equality among the faithful, regardless of their social or financial status, so why should these factors determine where people sit (or stand) during Mass? I don’t recall the Gospels talking about people bidding for seats when Jesus was giving his sermons.

What is your objection to adults drinking wine or beer? If they are not drinking to excess, I see no problem. On what grounds do you object?

Yes, I think you are truly a fuddy-duddy if these are the things that **offend **you.

 

[1ke]

Morning star,

The OP did not state that his objection was based on people looking at the materials during Mass. There are things in our pews, and I do not read them during Mass, but may look at them before or after Mass.

The mere presence of the materials is not causing a person to be inattentive at Mass. If a person chooses to read during Mass they can take the items from the narthex into their pew on the way in and zone out just as easily.

As to the pews, I do not believe the once a year raffle at the bizaar is a perpetuation of a class war where the poor are put in the “back”. We’re talking one pew. The poor can sit in the front of the church, just not in that one pew. And, who said the reserved pew had to be a front pew, it could be any pew. While it may not be to everyone’s taste, it’s not offensive, in my opinion. But, if you disagree that’s OK too.

 

[Morning_Star15]

Morning star,

The OP did not state that his objection was based on people looking at the materials during Mass. There are things in our pews, and I do not read them during Mass, but may look at them before or after Mass.

The mere presence of the materials is not causing a person to be inattentive at Mass. If a person chooses to read during Mass they can take the items from the narthex into their pew on the way in and zone out just as easily.

**If they’re supposed to read these items in the narthex why not just keep them in the narthex to begin with? That’s what’s done in my parish. Sure, nobody HAS to read them during Mass, but if they’re sitting right there in front of them next to the songbooks and missals, some people might conclude that they are being encouraged to look at these things during Mass if they are bored, or even right before Mass, instead of focusing on Christ’s presence and on the Mass. You could argue that if they do so it’s their own fault, but IMO the less opportunity people have to be distracted the better. **

As to the pews, I do not believe the once a year raffle at the bizaar is a perpetuation of a class war where the poor are put in the “back”. We’re talking one pew. The poor can sit in the front of the church, just not in that one pew. And, who said the reserved pew had to be a front pew, it could be any pew. While it may not be to everyone’s taste, it’s not offensive, in my opinion. But, if you disagree that’s OK too.

**I was referring more to what you said about selling pews being a regular practice in the Church of England, and expressing concern based on that statement that this could also become more of a regular habit in the Catholic Church if it’s introduced even as a once-a-year thing initially. I don’t like the idea of this being done regularly for the reasons I stated above **

 

[otjm]

Would you be offended if they had, for example, envelopes to raise funds for the nuns in India from Mother Theresa’s order?

If that doesn’t offend you, then get over the issue of raffle tickets. I’ll be polite and call you a fuddy-duddy. I would suggest finding something worthwhile to be offended about, like the abortion rate in the world, or pornography on the internet available to preteens.

 

[pnewton]

I guess I have to agree with the original poster, but then I will readily admit to being fuddy. I remember that Jesus ran out the moneychangers and vendors from the *outer *court of the temple. They, too, were a part of the worship system, providing worshipers with what was required by the Law of Moses to offer theri sacrifice. Yet Jesus called them thieves.

While I do not think raffle tickets makes the church a den of thieves, I do think it injects the secular into the sacred. One of the complaints against the Church today is that we have lost our sense of what is sacred. In no way is this clearer than the way our “sanctuary” is used. It is not that Jesus disapproves of raffles, concerts, fundraisers, etc., as much as we Catholics need to understand and clarify what it means to be holy (sacred). Having a place, clothing or utenisils that are holy serve as an object lesson for the individual, that he himself is also holy.

On the surface, there may seem to be nothing wrong. But when one realizes that this corner of the world we call sancuary was set aside for a single purpose, then we can appreciate the contradiction inherent in using this space for a fundraiser. I have the same objection when the homily is used for marketing. In this case, time is set aside as holy. I would also object if the altar was used for a potluck supper (another good thing) or even the mundane purpose of placing burnt light bulbs on it as they were changed.

 

[gam197]

originally posted cheerpul 1
Our parish is constantly fundraising during mass. Raffle tickets are in every pew several times a year, envelopes, other than special diocesan collections are frequestly in the pews, advertisements for rummages sales, fish fries and other events are placed in the pews.

It seems that it is too often. I would not object to it on occasion, envelopes or raffle tickets. I suppose once you get in the habit of doing it, it is just easy to do it the same way each time and not think about it. It is a** major distraction **and I am glad my church doesn’t do this. Ushers occasionally hand out bulletins because no one takes them I don’t know why on those weeks with flyers he doesn’t find a volunteer who will insert a full page flyer into the bulletin and make sure the ushers hand them out. Does he put a lot of other flyers in the bulletin on church issues? If so, it won’t work.

I remember my mother telling me that they sold pews when she was younger. I guess you paid an annual fee for your pew. They also had weekly collection envelopes for the schools as the catholic schools were free.

 

[daeve]

It seems that it is too often. I would not object to it on occasion, envelopes or raffle tickets. I suppose once you get in the habit of doing it, it is just easy to do it the same way each time and not think about it. It is a** major distraction **and I am glad my church doesn’t do this. Ushers occasionally hand out bulletins because no one takes them I don’t know why on those weeks with flyers he doesn’t find a volunteer who will insert a full page flyer into the bulletin and make sure the ushers hand them out. Does he put a lot of other flyers in the bulletin on church issues? If so, it won’t work.

I remember my mother telling me that they sold pews when she was younger. I guess you paid an annual fee for your pew. They also had weekly collection envelopes for the schools as the catholic schools were free.

Back when the schools were free there were nuns to teach the classes. Now there are lay teachers who have to be paid. They don’t make much here, but most are dedicated to the idea of Catholic education. Free nuns, paid teachers…big difference.

 

[Morning_Star15]

I guess I have to agree with the original poster, but then I will readily admit to being fuddy. I remember that Jesus ran out the moneychangers and vendors from the *outer *court of the temple. They, too, were a part of the worship system, providing worshipers with what was required by the Law of Moses to offer theri sacrifice. Yet Jesus called them thieves.

While I do not think raffle tickets makes the church a den of thieves, I do think it injects the secular into the sacred. One of the complaints against the Church today is that we have lost our sense of what is sacred. In no way is this clearer than the way our “sanctuary” is used. It is not that Jesus disapproves of raffles, concerts, fundraisers, etc., as much as we Catholics need to understand and clarify what it means to be holy (sacred). Having a place, clothing or utenisils that are holy serve as an object lesson for the individual, that he himself is also holy.

On the surface, there may seem to be nothing wrong. But when one realizes that this corner of the world we call sancuary was set aside for a single purpose, then we can appreciate the contradiction inherent in using this space for a fundraiser. I have the same objection when the homily is used for marketing. In this case, time is set aside as holy. I would also object if the altar was used for a potluck supper (another good thing) or even the mundane purpose of placing burnt light bulbs on it as they were changed.

Very well said - I agree completely

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I think it may give the appearance of scandal that the Church is more interested in its secular aid than in the saving of souls. The requests for money in Church do seem never ending. If we give in the envelopes, that should be sufficient. If the school requires more money or more fundraising a Church bulletin should be sufficient. When visitors come to the Church it sure gives a bad impression, really bad.

It is true that for the sake of our souls we need a good kick in the pants to loosen the old wallet, but not via constant henpecking.

I could be wrong, but a non-Catholic attends with me frequently and has thais complaint, so there is a perception issue here.

 

[lak611]

I think it may give the appearance of scandal that the Church is more interested in its secular aid than in the saving of souls. The requests for money in Church do seem never ending. If we give in the envelopes, that should be sufficient. If the school requires more money or more fundraising a Church bulletin should be sufficient. When visitors come to the Church it sure gives a bad impression, really bad.

It is true that for the sake of our souls we need a good kick in the pants to loosen the old wallet, but not via constant henpecking.

I could be wrong, but a non-Catholic attends with me frequently and has thais complaint, so there is a perception issue here.

A friend of mine left the Catholic Church because of this problem in his parish. He said too many of the homilies were about raising money for the parish, promoting bingo, etc. I have tried to take him to Mass at my parish several times, since mine is not like that at all, but so far he’s not interested. I do pray for him.

 

[Brenda_V]

You know, I belong to a Parish that has a relatively new school - only 10 years old or so - I have never seen any fundraiser promoted at the Church for the school besides the original Capital Gains pledges when we first purchased a school building that was once owned by the public school district. We are able to pay our teachers the going Parish School wage, pay off our debt for the purchase of the school and for all upkeep of the school from tuition and Parish members’ tithing!

I don’t even know if the school has any other fundraisers - like magazine sales or what not because my children were already either adults or in Jr. High when the school opened (the school started with grades k-5 and added a year for the next three years until it became a k-8 school). No one has approached me either from the school and I have friends whose children go to the school.

Now having said this, I know other Parish Schools work better with these kinds of fundraisers and I do not object to them. I do object to them being in the Sanctuary when the Narthex and announcements in the bulletin will suffice.

Now someone asked if I (or more probably us Fuddy, duddies) would object in the same way to the Sisters of Mother Theresa having envelopes in the pews. The answer is no, there is a different purpose to that kind of fund raising - it is not a selling of goods for fundraising purposes, it is an outright asking for money for their mission and most likely it is something that would go into a second collection. I must admit to having never seen such at my Parish although we have had a few of these Sisters at the Parish standing outside after Mass collecting money for their Mission (we actually have a group of Mother Theresa’s Sisters in Gallup who send two Sisters our way once a year to beg for money from us).

 

[TAS2000]

If we give in the envelopes, that should be sufficient. If the school requires more money or more fundraising a Church bulletin should be sufficient.

If people actually just gave sufficiently on their own we wouldn’t need envelopes or bulletins, or flyers, or annoucments. The fact is that in REALITY people don’t do these things without the constant reminders. To some it may seem excessive, but to others the first thirty reminders went right past and the last one was what did it.

Morning_Star15:

While it may not be morally wrong, I think it’s a distraction from the Mass

Not that I disagree it CAN be a distraction, but more for the sake of arguement, this is the same logic that prompted the removal of all the stained glass, statues, and reredos in many American churches. That stuff was “distracting” from the mass, and we need utilitarian blank worship spaces since we all suffer from collective ADD and couldn’t possibly concentrate if there were something else around to look at.

There are plenty of other threads out there about selling pews, or as they used to call it at our church “pew dues” and it was/is a very common practice, but not in all areas.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Our parish is constantly fundraising during mass. Raffle tickets are in every pew several times a year, envelopes, other than special diocesan collections are frequestly in the pews, advertisements for rummages sales, fish fries and other events are placed in the pews.

Is this abuse? I am offended, but our priest thinks it’s ok. Perhaps he should sell advertising space on the back of his chausable as well.

For that matter, the school auction fundraiser sells pews for the Christmas mass, several of the church groups that meet regularly drink beer/wine at their meetings in the church basement and keep the leftovers in the refrigerator of the kitchen.

Am I truly a fuddy-duddy or is this over the line?

No it’s not an abuse.

FYI, it’s against federal law and laws and in some states, to sell raffle tickets through the mail. Here in MA, you can send out raffle tickets through the mail, but the ticket must state, no monetary fee is necessary for purchase of these tickets. So, people can enter their name in the raffel, without buying the ticket. So it may be that your parish, in order to avoid the mail issue, chose to place the tickets in the pews.

If you have a better way to raise money, by all means, bring it to your pastor with your request to run the thing. I’m sure he’ll be all ears to hear what you have to say.

Jim

 

[lak611]

So it may be that your parish, in order to avoid the mail issue, chose to place the tickets in the pews.

If you have a better way to raise money, by all means, bring it to your pastor with your request to run the thing. I’m sure he’ll be all ears to hear what you have to say.

Jim

Why couldn’t the raffle tickets be placed in the vestibule?