Raise age of consent?

[royal_archer]

It seams like a good idea for the Church to dedicate more resources to addressing the issue of age of consent and to remove age as an excuse for age of consent.

If I understand it correctly the age of consent varies by state but for discussion let’s say it is about 16. Any one over the age of 18 who has relations with a person under the age of consent could be guilty of statutory rape. However, I believe that those under 18 can’t be charged with statutory rape.

I assume there is no argument that children/teens having relations is a bad thing.

I believe the Church should go on the offense and first say that statutory rape applies regardless of the purpetrators age. I am not advocating putting kids in jail for this but they should be charged with a crime, fined, given other penalties, Possibly as a misdemeanor.

Second the Church should advocate raising the age of consent. You have to be 18 to vote and having intimate relations is a lot more significant of a decision. You have to be 21 to be considered responsible enough to drink and putting yourself in the possition to be a parrent is a very tough responsibiliity. That is why I believe the age of consent should be 21+. I feel a person needs to be more mature for their first time in bed than their first drink. And I know that there are cases where it is appropriate for 18, 19, and 20 year olds to get married but if those situations are reasonable then the parrents can always consent to the marriage.

I believe the bennefits of significantly raising the age includes giving people more of a chance to date and get established in life prior to entering an intimate relationship. Also, it reduces the number of unwanted pregnacies. It will also change the mind set from “As soon as I turn eighteen and move out I can do “it” when ever I want with Whomever I want…” to a mind set where people can move out and get established living on their own with out getting into a physical relationship.

Thoughts?

 

[rwoehmke]

The horse got out of the barn a long time and its too late to try closing the door. How many politicians will want to get on the bad side of those voters between 18 and 21? Eighteen year olds often lack maturity, but they are so good at fighting our wars. Some states , like Wisconsin, did raise the drinking age to 21 and lowered the blood alcohol level for DUI, but only because Uncle Sugar threatened to cut off federal highway funding.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think it’d be a bad idea to raise the age of consent. I hesitate over the idea of mucking around with the category of statutory rape.

There’s a reason why that category is in existence - which is that there’s a much stronger presumption, in the case of an adult who has relations with a minor, that the adult knew that what they were doing was seriously wrong, and/or a much greater power inequality (in most cases) in the relationship, so much higher likelihood of coercion.

for mine, neither of these reasons for making adult-minor relations statutory rape can be presumed to apply in minor-minor relations.

 

[royal_archer]

The horse got out of the barn a long time and its too late to try closing the door. How many politicians will want to get on the bad side of those voters between 18 and 21? Eighteen year olds often lack maturity, but they are so good at fighting our wars. Some states , like Wisconsin, did raise the drinking age to 21 and lowered the blood alcohol level for DUI, but only because Uncle Sugar threatened to cut off federal highway funding.

It wasn’t all that long ago that they raised the drinking age from 18 to 21. Yes it took a while to implement but they did it.

 

[royal_archer]

…
for mine, neither of these reasons for making adult-minor relations statutory rape can be presumed to apply in minor-minor relations.

I agree that minor - minor relationships should not have the same penalty as an adult - minor relationship. As an analogy an adult asaulting a minor is a more significant crime than a minor asaulting another minor but a minor asaulting another minor is still a crime. Physical relations with someone who does not consent (either out of will or inability to consent) is a physical attack and should have some penalty, possibly with their parrents sharing some responsibility like they would in an asault case.

 

[Ghoti]

I agree that minor - minor relationships should not have the same penalty as an adult - minor relationship. As an analogy an adult asaulting a minor is a more significant crime than a minor asaulting another minor but a minor asaulting another minor is still a crime. Physical relations with someone who does not consent (either out of will or inability to consent) is a physical attack and should have some penalty, possibly with their parrents sharing some responsibility like they would in an asault case.

If they cannot legally consent, how can they be legally culpable?

If both parties are under the age of consent, and therefore cannot consent to the commission of the act, how can they then form criminal intent? Culpability assumes ability to consent, does it not?

 

[strngrnrth]

The drinking age and the age of consent are broadly ignored because they already exceed the cultural age of initiation to adulthood, which is normally 15 or 16 for most Americans.
The definition of statutory rape varies from state to state but usually involves the perpetrator being at least 16, the other person under 18, and the perpetrator at least three years older than the other person. In other words, it’s a 20-year-old and a 17-year-old, a 17-year-old and a 14-year-old, or a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old. I think that makes sense. That means if a 14-year-old and an 18-year-old are in love and want to get married they must leave their options open and keep it clean until the younger one is 18. That’s four years to think and learn. I don’t think that would be too fast if the two youngsters are brought up with wisdom and maturity. My mother was in her teens when she had her kids., and she’s glad she had us.
I would be and often am the first and loudest to decry early marriage, sexual exploitation or rushed courting, but the fact is that we have an instinct to cluster most of our pregnancies around the early- to mid- 20’s when we’re most fertile, and you don’t always get pregnant right away even at that age. Instinctively most of us expect to need about five live births to achieve replacement, with four years between each pair, and a couple of miscarriages or still births, with a year or two to regain strength after each of them, and at least a year after marriage before the first birth. This means marriage at about 19, give or take a couple of years. Of course that’s not ideal for selecting a husband, which is a tricky and confusing task, but it tugs the age most women want to marry downward. When the woman is very poor, as most people once were, her family may need the space she lives in earlier than that. If her family is rich, on the other hand, they push for her to marry while they still control her so they can make a politically useful match for their purposes. Both these factors lead to earlier marriage yet. I would say if it’s her idea and she knows him well (based on the usual scenario, where she’s the younger one), and her family helps her look him over for any bad signs, about 15 or 16 is old enough to marry given a year’s engagement. Otherwise, if everyone is freely consenting and they have been counseled on what marriage involves, 18 or 19 is old enough under normal circumstances, barring intoxication or mental delay of any kind.
So many things play into when it works best for a couple to be married that legislation should concentrate on protecting the children and the vulnerable from exploitation, not trying to design the ideal life for everyone, which can’t be done. Too soon for one person is sometimes too late for the next. Free choice for those involved is the most important thing as long as everyone is capable of making decisions.
As to the drinking age, I think it should be layered similarly: 15 with supervision, in small amounts and with a full meal only, 18 with supervision for hard liquor alone or without supervision for fermented drink or for liquor with substantial food, 20 to drink whatever you want.

 

[royal_archer]

If they cannot legally consent, how can they be legally culpable?

If both parties are under the age of consent, and therefore cannot consent to the commission of the act, how can they then form criminal intent? Culpability assumes ability to consent, does it not?

Wouldn’t it be the same as asault? a child can not consent to being asaulted but can be held liable for committing asault; right?

A teenager is not considered responsible enough to drink but can be charged with underage drinking.

 

[royal_archer]

.

If the parrents of the “minor” agreed with the marriage, then they could give consent. It would help to reduce the number of kids that run off and marry their first crush only to learn they don’t have all that much in common other than irrational spontenaity.

 

[wjp984]

Tecnically, my understaning is with two minors they are both guilty of statutory rape on each other. However, why would you accuse your partner of statutroy rape when that would also be admitting your own guilt? It’s not like alcohol where the cops are going to seek out the underage drinkers and issue them minors in possessions as trying to discover statutory rape would seriously invade privacy.

Oh, and also, in my opinion the very threat of statutory rape among a 19 year old and a 16 year old leads to an increase in abortions. You can legally get an abortion in most places without getting the other one in trouble but if you have the baby then the person is likely to be charged with statutory rape.

 

[seekerz]

If both kids are under the age of consent and no force is involved, exactly how would we decide who the perpetrator was?

As for raising the age of consent - not gonna happen. Kids are having consensual sex at an increasingly younger age; they don’t seem to know or care what the law says. Small wonder when we have mom putting their daughters on BCP as soon as they enter puberty.

Just getting kids to respect the existing law would be a great achievement.

 

[Dale_M]

Just getting kids to respect the existing law would be a great achievement.

I think you are right. Whatever is set for the age of consent really doesn’t matter since teens don’t wait until that age to have sex.

 

[Caesar517]

Whatever is set for the age of consent really doesn’t matter since teens don’t wait until that age to have sex.

I think you mean some teens don’t wait until that age to have sex. Be careful with blanket statements.

I also have to point out flawed logic here. You seem to be saying that it doesn’t matter what the law is because it will be violated anyway. If you follow that logic, why not make marijuana legal? [some] People smoke it anyway. There are many other good laws you could erase with that logic.

 

[Dale_M]

I think you mean some teens don’t wait until that age to have sex. Be careful with blanket statements.

Yes, you are correct

I also have to point out flawed logic here. You seem to be saying that it doesn’t matter what the law is because it will be violated anyway. If you follow that logic, why not make marijuana legal? [some] People smoke it anyway. There are many other good laws you could erase with that logic.

No, I don’t think that comparison holds. No matter what a person does, at no time will marijuana be legal. Its not a comparable situation since with age of consent laws everyone will be legal for sex, given a little time.

 

[teachccd]

While I don’t condone sex outside of marriage,period, if we are talking about age then why are they sending 18 year old kids to war?? They can fight for our country but they cannot buy alcohol or gamble. If 18 year olds are TOO YOUNG for anything, then they should be too young to die…teachccd

 

[Caesar517]

While I don’t condone sex outside of marriage,period, if we are talking about age then why are they sending 18 year old kids to war?? They can fight for our country but they cannot buy alcohol or gamble. If 18 year olds are TOO YOUNG for anything, then they should be too young to die…teachccd

Yes, it seems to me that we should have an age where a person becomes a full adult; able to join the armed forces, drink alcohol, and make any other life decisions. It just doesn’t seem very consistent the way it is now.

 

[SoulRebel777]

If anything they should lower the age of consent.

All states should be 16. But If there’s a 6 year year age difference the person could be arrested for statutory rape. So a guy in his mid 20’s couldnt go and try to hook up with a 16 year old etc. but at the sametime a 18 year could have sex with a girl a few grades lower then himself without worrying about anything.

then at 18 the person is fully legal .

From my college law class.
I heard that in the early 1900’s the age of consent in california was 11.

Also In canada the age of consent is 14.

 

[teachccd]

If anything they should lower the age of consent.

All states should be 16. But If there’s a 6 year year age difference the person could be arrested for statutory rape. So a guy in his mid 20’s couldnt go and try to hook up with a 16 year old etc. **but at the sametime a 18 year could have sex with a girl a few grades lower then himself without worrying about anything. **

then at 18 the person is fully legal .

From my college law class.
I heard that in the early 1900’s the age of consent in california was 11.

Also In canada the age of consent is 14.

Except for maybe the state of his soul…

 

[Ghoti]

If anything they should lower the age of consent.

All states should be 16. But If there’s a 6 year year age difference the person could be arrested for statutory rape. So a guy in his mid 20’s couldnt go and try to hook up with a 16 year old etc. but at the sametime a 18 year could have sex with a girl a few grades lower then himself without worrying about anything.

then at 18 the person is fully legal .

From my college law class.
I heard that in the early 1900’s the age of consent in california was 11.

Also In canada the age of consent is 14.

I think the Harper gov’t is trying to raise that to 18. That would be a step back for the gay lobby, which has been trying to get the age of consent for sodomy lowered.

 

[royal_archer]

Tecnically, my understaning is with two minors they are both guilty of statutory rape on each other. However, why would you accuse your partner of statutroy rape when that would also be admitting your own guilt? It’s not like alcohol where the cops are going to seek out the underage drinkers and issue them minors in possessions as trying to discover statutory rape would seriously invade privacy.

Oh, and also, in my opinion the very threat of statutory rape among a 19 year old and a 16 year old leads to an increase in abortions. You can legally get an abortion in most places without getting the other one in trouble but if you have the baby then the person is likely to be charged with statutory rape.

If someone under the age of consent gets pregnant then it would be an absolute that there was illegal sexual activity involved. If they go in for abourtion they should be turned over to child protective services or another agency to pursue legal actions. The DNA of the baby could be tested to prove who else was guilty.

There could also be monitoring of email and text message traffic to identify other guilty parties. They are already monitoring this traffic so it would not be a new invasion of privacy.