Raising Catholics on the KJV

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StevEdward

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The Catholic Church provides catechism to the children of parishioners, and to be sure there are no Protestant Bibles used there. Neither is the KJV used in any of our Churches. But there have been no inexpensive Catholic Bibles widely available to the public. It is nearly the opposite with other Bibles, and with so many KJV Bibles being given away, it wouldn’t surprise me to find at least one in more than a few Catholic houeholds. In fact, many Catholics appear unaware of the differences and they excercise a great deal of tolerance with that regard.

My own experience is not focused on merely one small community. I believe as Mark Twain said: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, and narrow mindedness and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime.” So along with my developing knowledge of the issues in Christianity, mostly due to my travels, I’m also perplexed by the willingness of many Catholics to use the KJV.

My observations on the Bible are based on more than the Gideon’s version, though many of these are now in use. But my own study has revealed the many differences in our Bibles and how this colors the discussion between people. The “faith alone” doctrine simply cannot coexist with Catholicism, neither can the KJV ever replace our Catholic editions. That is my contention.

May the Lord bless you and keep you always,

Steven
 
The bibles we get for the kids in our parish cost $4.95. We get them from Antom. Inexpensive bibles are certainly available. Also look in used book stores.
 
What are you talking about there being no inexpensive bibles in Catholisism?

$6.95
amazon.com/American-Bible-Revised-Psalms-Testament/dp/0529064847/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274464355&sr=8-1

That’s the very bible used in mass every week.

$17.96 for a youth bible (NAB)
amazon.com/Catholic-Youth-Bible-Revised-American/dp/088489794X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274464405&sr=8-1-spell

Catholic Child’s First Bible: by Rev. Victor Hoagland
inhisname.com/product.php?product=24409

$16.99 The Beginners Bible
inhisname.com/product.php?product=36671

$11,.99 Illustrated Children’s Bible
inhisname.com/product.php?product=26500
 
I too am puzzled by your statement that inexpensive Catholic bibles are not available.

www.comcenter.com

There are tons of inexpensive Catholic bibles available, starting at $4.95 each, with price breaks for large orders.
 
StevEdward said:
The Catholic Church provides catechism to the children of parishioners, and to be sure there are no Protestant Bibles used there. Neither is the KJV used in any of our Churches. But there have been no inexpensive Catholic Bibles widely available to the public. It is nearly the opposite with other Bibles, and with so many KJV Bibles being given n
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The New American Bible has been available in a low cost, under $5 paperback edition ever since it was published, just google Catholic bookstores and catalogs. The American Bible Society also sells low cost Catholic bibles with imprimatur and has for many, years.

you don’t even mention that you have ever even picked up a CAtholic bible, so how are you in a position to make comparisons?
 
I don’t think there is anything wrong with using the KJV, I used one for many years. For the time it was a great translation - it is also a great work of literature in terms of written expression. I would use the KJV for reading but I wouldn’t use it for the detailed study of doctrine, there are several good and cheap Catholic translations.

Of course there have been great improvements in the translations over the years and the successors of the KJV are highly reliable translations - the Revised Standard Version for example is now available in a Catholic edition or two.
 
puzzleannie said:
The New American Bible has been available in a low cost, under $5 paperback edition ever since it was published, just google Catholic bookstores and catalogs. The American Bible Society also sells low cost Catholic bibles with imprimatur and has for many, years.

you don’t even mention that you have ever even picked up a CAtholic bible, so how are you in a position to make comparisons?
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You make a good point, all are making understandably good points. But nowadays the Bibles that are picked up the fastest are those which are free. The Bibles that are widely available and free are going to be read the most, that is going to be obvious. Perhaps our Churches themselves need to be the best available source for Catholic Bibles.

My personal favorite that I have found in this search is the one by Amy Welborn, “Prove It!” Catholic Teen Bible. It appears to be a great learning tool for both teens and young adults who have been exposed mostly to the dull KJV. No Catholic organizations in my area are making any big attempt to sell or advertise Catholic Bibles. Maybe that’s not true in your hometowns. Thanks for all the great info!

Peace be with you,

Steven
 
puzzleannie said:
The New American Bible has been available in a low cost, under $5 paperback edition ever since it was published, just google Catholic bookstores and catalogs. The American Bible Society also sells low cost Catholic bibles with imprimatur and has for many, years.

you don’t even mention that you have ever even picked up a CAtholic bible, so how are you in a position to make comparisons?
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Yes, I have picked up more than a few Catholic Bibles. In my experience they are mostly found among longtime Catholic families and infrequently at Churches. My own Church has invested in Sunday Missals from OSV for all pews. Many Catholic organizations have even bought a number of Catholic Voter pamphlets from Catholic Answers. These are purchased by many K of C councils and breifly distributed in their Churches.

Some searching and questioning is commonly necessary to track down sources for Catholic Bibles. We have an oral tradition in our Masses which is beautiful and perhaps more appealing to those who need to follow our guides, who are our priests and deacons. But there really is a need for Catholic Bibles, and maybe a focus on the differences in the Bibles that are widely available in our society. This especially when the number of adulterated and NKJV Bibles available for free is perhaps more common then many are aware.

Peace be with you,

Steven
 
StevEdward said:
Yes, I have picked up more than a few Catholic Bibles. In my experience they are mostly found among longtime Catholic families and infrequently at Churches. My own Church has invested in Sunday Missals from OSV for all pews. Many Catholic organizations have even bought a number of Catholic Voter pamphlets from Catholic Answers. These are purchased by many K of C councils and breifly distributed in their Churches.

Some searching and questioning is commonly necessary to track down sources for Catholic Bibles. We have an oral tradition in our Masses which is beautiful and perhaps more appealing to those who need to follow our guides, who are our priests and deacons. But there really is a need for Catholic Bibles, and maybe a focus on the differences in the Bibles that are widely available in our society. This especially when the number of adulterated and NKJV Bibles available for free is perhaps more common then many are aware.

Peace be with you,

Steven
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To be perfectly honest, I find that the Missaletts provided in many parishes are a superior way of getting biblcal passages in written form and in the hands of mass attendants than having actual bibles in the pews. Particularly for the less enthused and energized mass goers in the crowed who probably aren’t all that familiar with thumbing through a “big old bible” to try and find the readings (something I do with a NAB bible).

Anyhow, providing KJV bibles in the pews would be worthless. They lack 7 books so there would be days where you couldn’t even find the OT reading for the day if you wanted to. More over, it’s not the correct translation, people have issues when trying to read one thing and listen to something which might as well be completely different at the same time. Rather than increasing focus it would decrease focus. NAB bibles would have to be provided, and even then there are subtle differences in the liturgical and print translations (not enough to really throw you off).

The missaletts will provide you all the readings for the day in order, with the responorial psalm (response as well as all the verses sung). More direct and to the point. As far as families aquireing bibles, the best way to do this is for them to buy the version that suiets their needs best. Personally I own (phsyically) a Chanoller DR, Haydock DR and a NAB, electronically I have at least 15 other translations available to me. My fiance owns a KJV and a couple other protestant bibles from her protestant days, as well as a rather nice leather bound NAB.
 
My belief is once you are catholic you should use a catholic bible. Re: the KJV as a protestant convert I love my KJV since I was broughht up with it from a child. I am now 78 years old having converted 5 years ago. Praise God! But I found the catholic church not only through history but by my being familar with God’s Word in the KJV of the Holy Bible. I have four different versions and now mostly read my catholic bible but the Hol;y Spirit can use other versions.
 
StevEdward said:
You make a good point, all are making understandably good points. But nowadays the Bibles that are picked up the fastest are those which are free. The Bibles that are widely available and free are going to be read the most, that is going to be obvious. Perhaps our Churches themselves need to be the best available source for Catholic Bibles.

My personal favorite that I have found in this search is the one by Amy Welborn, “Prove It!” Catholic Teen Bible. It appears to be a great learning tool for both teens and young adults who have been exposed mostly to the dull KJV. No Catholic organizations in my area are making any big attempt to sell or advertise Catholic Bibles. Maybe that’s not true in your hometowns. Thanks for all the great info!

Peace be with you,

Steven
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where free bibles have been made available it is because some donor(s) have picked up the cost of the low-price bibles published by ABS and others for the purpose of evangelization. Have you considered making such a donation?

In this diocese last year our parish, among many others, chose to take part in a program to make a bible available to every family in the parish, so that they would in turn pass it on to others who are unchurched or not reading the bible. For that year parishioners were encouraged to purchase the inexpensive bibles ordered by the parish, and to bring them to Mass, and just for that year, readings were read from the bibles rather than missalettes to stress the connection between the lectionary cycle and the whole scripture. This project was a follow up to a year of training parish leaders and facilitators to promote lectio divina among Catholics, which was in turn the lead in to implementation of Disciples in Mission, the diocesan evangelization program.

As part of our CCD program every family has been receiving a bible and catechism for as long as I have been in charge, and one of the parent classes is on how to use, read and pray with both most effectively.

Just because you personally have not encountered Catholics, parishes, or dioceses who read the bible, who promote prayer and reading scripture, and who make the effort to get bibles into people’s hands does not mean it is not being done, it merely means your experience is exceedingly limited.

and in closing, btw, all our confirmation candidates use the Prove It bible throughout their preparation, and it is theirs to keep as a gift from the parish.
 
Your point is well taken, although in my case it’s not very accurate. My travels and experiences are extensive, at least in the western United States. A person must attend more than one Mass at a parish and make friends with parishioners to see for themselves the community behavior and it’s resources. Where Protestant Churches advertise Bible classes for free and teach them to children, A great many Catholic Parishs have no catechism classes and combine any interested families with children with RCIA instead for convenience. There can be a real shortage of money and available space for such things. Good teachers are also in high demand since the Bible is not as self-explanatory as you might think.

It could be that your experience in the big city does not reflect well on what happens in the country, or in the neighborhoods where Bible study is so much more common among non-Catholics.

Peace be with you,

Steven
 
If I’m reading your posts correctly, you are dismayed that the Church does not promote or provide more bibles and bible study courses, that in your experience, the Catholic bibles are either not given, or so expensive that families choose to purchase the KJV or use a KJV they received for free from a non-Catholic source.

When I went through school every student received a bible in preparation for the sacrament of the Eucharist, and another one in preparation for confirmation. In my children’s time (the past decade) they, too, received multiple bibles from the religious education program offered by the church for both sacraments, and another teen study bible as part of their Kairos experience.

Why would a family choose to use the KJV to raise their children in the faith? I would venture to guess it’s because it’s so prominent in every store which sells bibles and they don’t realize there is such a thing as a ‘Catholic’ bible. Sad, but true. Is the solution to that problem to compete with that market approach? No. The solution is to get the word out that there is an ‘official’ Catholic bible.

Keep in mind, also, that the reason the KJV is so prominently available and freely distributed is because it is protestant, and for those christians one comes to know Jesus through scripture only. Every person is encouraged to interpret the bible for themselves so that they can come to know Jesus and his plan for them.

We Catholics come to know Jesus through the magesterium of the Church, the sacraments, and scripture. It’s a total package, so we don’t push the bible as much as the other christian denominations do. We distribute it in preparation of those sacraments. It goes hand in hand with the rest of the teachings they are being given first at home, from their parents, then at Mass on Sundays, and through those preparation classes.
 
GAHere said:
We Catholics come to know Jesus through the magesterium of the Church, the sacraments, and scripture. It’s a total package, so we don’t push the bible as much as the other christian denominations do. We distribute it in preparation of those sacraments. It goes hand in hand with the rest of the teachings they are being given first at home, from their parents, then at Mass on Sundays, and through those preparation classes.
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I’m a little surprised by much of what you say, except for the above which fills my heart with gladness. You, and your children are most fortunate to have a Church with a well funded catechism to start kids out right, with one of the new youth Bibles for each child to possess. I cannot say that in my experience any of the parishes I’ve visited have been able to provide so much. And that extends from Holy Rosary in Seattle, to St. Vincent De Paul in Houston, TX, with dozens in between in cities where I have lived briefly in my work. A lot of the inconsistency cannot be helped due to the cost of living in each respective community. Though I hasten to say that my travels in Mexico showed me a different world then what American Catholics are used to.

Now, as far as the Mass, as it is presented in many parishes the readings are not always easy to follow. Only some Churches have hymnals which have the readings in them according to the sequence of Sundays thoughout the year. And many have poor sound systems where it may be very difficult to hear. A handful of Catholic Churches have purchased missalettes from Our Sunday Visitor for parishioners, and I agree with Crazzeto’s comment earlier in this thread: " I find that the Missaletts provided in many parishes are a superior way of getting biblcal passages in written form and in the hands of mass attendants than having actual bibles in the pews."

But still, are you aware of the additional benefits of some Catholic Bibles in the hands of those who would defend our faith? It is not well known to many of our brothers and sisters that Martin Luther’s notion of salvation from faith alone cannot coexist with Catholicism. My experience is that too many Catholics are just not fully aware of how worthless the KJV Bible is in comparison. It’s also my contention that we Catholics can better identify with our faith, if more could be shown the unique value of it through the unabridged version of our scripture.

One other thing I would like to mention; if all things were equal then the answer to your question would be obvious to all: “Why would a family choose to use the KJV to raise their children in the faith?” But with so many parishes and communities, each one unique and different from all the rest, how can you be so sure? My experience has been that in almost just as many Masses the people hold hands while reciting the Lord’s prayer, then Masses where this is not done at all. Personally, I like the comraderie of holding hands, and also the Churches that offer pancake breakfasts after Mass, especially when it’s served by the Knights of Columbus.

Thank you for posting,

Steven

(The most precious thing a person can make is a friend!)

“The most precious thing a person can make is a friend.”
 
I’m sorry your travels have taken you to parishes not able to provide the basics in sacramental preparation. That has not been my experience in my travels at all. I do agree that Mexico has quite a different take on Catholicism than we do.

I’ve come to learn and accept that the spirit moves us according to his time. We buy our bibles because it’s the thing to do, but the call to open it comes from the Lord. Something stirs within our soul to seek an answer from it. From there, hopefully, the seed grows.

Sometimes it’s something heard in Mass, perhaps from the readings themselves, or the psalms, or the homily. As you noted, the sound systems are usually not too good, and perhaps someone was following along the readings until the mic went out. The spirit could move that person to look up the passage when he/she gets home.

Sometimes it’s a question or statement posed to us which doesn’t quite sit right with us so we look it up. My point is having the book itself does not set our hearts on fire. Having it at our fingertips helps fan the flames of the spirit when the time comes.

Now, let’s say the spirit moves someone and it so happens that person has the KJV at home. Well for most things the passage will be correct, but for others, it won’t be right or it’ll be missing. The person will turn to a fellow Catholic or someone from church, perhaps even the priest to question why that is. That’s when they’ll learn they have the wrong bible, then they’ll question why they aren’t all the same, and the education process begins. From there, perhaps the desire to evangelize is born, but by then the person knows to use the correct bible version.

You are correct that too many Catholics are not aware of how useless the KJV is. I don’t believe it’s because they aren’t told, just that when they were told they dismissed the fact, weren’t really paying attention. If you went out and spoke to 20 people right now to ask them if they knew the difference, most would probably say they know there’s a difference, but they won’t be able to tell you what the difference is. They’d probably also tell you the difference doesn’t matter. People in that state are not in the position to evangelize and more than likely, they aren’t looking to develop their personal spiritual development. It is not the time for them. But the time will come, and then, they’ll remember your message.
 
As a new Christian, who is being drawn towards Catholicism, I’m wishing there was a bible out there which read exactly like the readings at Mass. I like the Protestant practice of bringing your bible to church, and following along. While there are many, many Protestant bibles out there, the pastor at whatever church you attend will generally use a certain translation. Bring that to your church, and you’re all set. I wish the Catholic church had an officially sanctioned bible.

A Catholic friend told me that the scripture found in the missals is from the Saint Joseph Edition, but is altered to make it read better out loud. That makes it tough to follow along for someone with a bible in hand.

As for the KJV, it seems to me that we’re only talking about a few bucks, and that devotion to a particular faith would motivate individuals to scrounge up enough cash for the right bible. If there was a “right” bible out there. 👍
 
HighwayRanger said:
As a new Christian, who is being drawn towards Catholicism, I’m wishing there was a bible out there which read exactly like the readings at Mass. I like the Protestant practice of bringing your bible to church, and following along. While there are many, many Protestant bibles out there, the pastor at whatever church you attend will generally use a certain translation. Bring that to your church, and you’re all set. I wish the Catholic church had an officially sanctioned bible.

A Catholic friend told me that the scripture found in the missals is from the Saint Joseph Edition, but is altered to make it read better out loud. That makes it tough to follow along for someone with a bible in hand.

As for the KJV, it seems to me that we’re only talking about a few bucks, and that devotion to a particular faith would motivate individuals to scrounge up enough cash for the right bible. If there was a “right” bible out there. 👍
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Hello HighwayRanger,

As everyone’s experience is unique, its good to have a place where we can compare notes. If your own life is restricted as to exclude people who are not practicing Catholics then it would be too easy for one to form an opinion based on a skewed observation. That’s why I find your posting particularly illuminating where many Catholics have been frustrated with the same problems; how the readings can differ from Parish to Parish according to what version is read aloud. There’s more than one Missal available out there, and there are too many who agree with Protestants to discount any differences in our Bibles also.

Of course a substantial education is required to discern the difference. If the world was flat then everyone could afford one, I’m sure, but certain things get in the way. That’s why we have saintly people like Mother Teresa to help us find our way. If all Catholics were like her, it has been said, then all of the people in India would be Catholic also.

Peace be with you,

Steven

“The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise.” F. Scott Fitzgerald
 
HighwayRanger said:
As a new Christian, who is being drawn towards Catholicism, I’m wishing there was a bible out there which read exactly like the readings at Mass. I like the Protestant practice of bringing your bible to church, and following along. While there are many, many Protestant bibles out there, the pastor at whatever church you attend will generally use a certain translation. Bring that to your church, and you’re all set. I wish the Catholic church had an officially sanctioned bible.

A Catholic friend told me that the scripture found in the missals is from the Saint Joseph Edition, but is altered to make it read better out loud. That makes it tough to follow along for someone with a bible in hand.

As for the KJV, it seems to me that we’re only talking about a few bucks, and that devotion to a particular faith would motivate individuals to scrounge up enough cash for the right bible. If there was a “right” bible out there. 👍
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You can’t get an absolutly exact match, what is used at mass (in NA) is a version of the NAB modified slightly for liturgical reasons. But that said, the modifications are slight, but your self a copy of the NAB (New American Bible) off amazon for $5, take it to mass with a listing of the readings for the day, and you’ll be set.

Also, you can also print the daily readings (word for word) from the USCCB website:

usccb.org/nab/today.shtml
 
I do think the wide availability of free KJVs vs the relative non-availability of Catholic Bibles is a problem, particularly in the area of outreach to the unchurched. (I’m going through my mother’s belongings and I have found about a dozen different KJV Bibles that were apparently distributed free to everyone in town (like the weekly shopper) by various churches and mission societies. They can do this because those paperback KJV’s are less than $1 each when purchased in bulk - and that’s with the church’s info printed on the cover, and sometimes a lovely local scene or the picture of the church, too.

I have gone the route of buying Catholic Bibles (from the American Bible Society) and giving them to my confirmation students and others in the parish. (Our confirmation program, which I HATE, does not actually teach from the Bible. One of its many failings, which at least with my small class, I tried to overcome.)

My horror story (well, horror is a bit strong, maybe, but not much) is that my parish purchased NIV Bibles for use in CCD classes. . . . apparently the former religious ed director didn’t know or care that they are not Catholic (and in my opinion, much worse than the KJV as the NIV is a deliberately slanted translation). I have pointed out the problem to the current religious ed director and evangelization director, but the books remain on the shelves in every classroom. I’m not sure I can afford to replace them all myself, but it may come to that!
 
HighwayRanger said:
As a new Christian, who is being drawn towards Catholicism, I’m wishing there was a bible out there which read exactly like the readings at Mass. I like the Protestant practice of bringing your bible to church, and following along. While there are many, many Protestant bibles out there, the pastor at whatever church you attend will generally use a certain translation. Bring that to your church, and you’re all set. I wish the Catholic church had an officially sanctioned bible.

A Catholic friend told me that the scripture found in the missals is from the Saint Joseph Edition, but is altered to make it read better out loud. That makes it tough to follow along for someone with a bible in hand.

As for the KJV, it seems to me that we’re only talking about a few bucks, and that devotion to a particular faith would motivate individuals to scrounge up enough cash for the right bible. If there was a “right” bible out there. 👍
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There is an ‘official’ Catholic Bible the U.S. Catholic church utilizes for its readings: The New American Bible

The great thing about that USCCB page is that one can access the readings for any day of the year, and they can compare the reading to their home bible. If questions arise between the two, it’s a wonderful opportunity to speak to one’s priest or deacon for clarification, and thus the person grows in their understanding of the faith.

Keeping in mind that the Catholic liturgy is based on Tradition, I think there is intent behind the decision to not have parishioners bring their own bibles, and why some parishes provide missals, while others do not. It has to do with the whole purpose of the Gospels - hearing the Good News.

When the Church began the Good News was shared orally. Even after the bible was put to pen, it was impractical to have multiple copies available at every church. Besides, it wasn’t printed in the vernacular (common tongue of a particular community). Impractical, and unnecessary, because the key has always been to have the faithful listen to the word as part of the gathering that the Mass is.

It’s one of the beauties of the Catholic faith, the Tradition. When I struggle at times to hear the readings clearly, I imagine what it must have been like in the early days of the church, deep in a cave, layers deep of the faithful packed in a closed environment, no sound system whatsoever. Even back then, if one could hear and understand the homily which follows, the message gets across. I can at least go home to look up the readings to help fill in any blanks. They had to talk to each other to find out what they missed. Probably helped keep the faith alive for all involved.

As a new Christian considering Catholicism, if you attend a mass you’ll see there is a payer we Catholics invoke before the gospel: “The Lord be on my mind, on my lips and in my heart”. Our focus is supposed to be on listening to the lector proclaim the Gospel so that the Holy Spirit can speak to us during that time, if such be the case. The prayer helps us get in that mindset.

The missals are convenient for those times when the sound system is lacking, or when the accent of the lector is such that certain words are not understood, but they are supplemental to the mass, not essential.

There have been times when what is read from the pulpit differs ever so slightly from the missal, and then when I get home to check my bible it differs still. Those have been good moments for me, rather than annoying or frustrating, because it led to me receiving the Word in different ways, and if I’m still confused, it gets me to mention it to my priest the next time I see him. From that encounter I learn more about my faith.
 
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