V
viktor_aleksndr
Guest
Isn’t it an abuse for the faithful (laity) to raise their hands during the raising of the Body and Blood of our Lord just after the consecration? And others raise their hands and sing alleluia…
- Status
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
viktor aleksndr:
Yes
V
viktor_aleksndr
Guest
thanks… I don’t know why some filipino priests allowed such things which is not in the GIRM… Why can’t they just stick on what the GIRM states…
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
Part of the problem is that the most recent GIRM is somewhat ambiguous in the paragraphs concerning this section of the Mass. I do know that the USCCB released a supplement to the GIRM to clarify these points. It is availible on their website.
T
thistle
Guest
viktor aleksndr:
I live in Manila and have never seen that done.
G
Gearoidin
Guest
viktor aleksndr:
Gearoidin
We have an English Mass on every 2nd and 4th Sunday afternoon. It is mainly for the Filipino community who make up the bulk of the English speakers in the parish and is said by a Filipino priest. There is a lot of hand holding and hand raising at different points during the Mass. In particular during the Our Father which is sung (guitar and drums muscians) everyone holds hands, raise them to about shoulder level and then sway to the music. Nothing like this happens at the usual Japanese Mass.
Gearoidin
N
netmilsmom
Guest
From what I have seen here, the Filipino diocese seems to be able to find the loopholes to do what they want. When the Vatican said no unnecessary movements in the liturgy, the Diocese said basically, that doesn’t mean the ones that WE do. They use the “It doesn’t SAY we cant” in the liturgy.
Perhaps this is the reason why.
inq7.net/globalnation/col_krm/2005/nov21.htm
V
viktor_aleksndr
Guest
That quote is from the site above…
One of the problems encountered by some laity is that there are priest who get angry when seeing a laity not conforming with raising of the hands.
Let the Filipino Catholics know that this practice is somehow a tradition of most protestants. Do we (Filipino Catholics) like to be protestants in terms of liturgy? I hope that the CBCP will think of this not on the Filipino culture but on the Universality of the Church. We do not belong to the Filipino Catholic Church but on the Roman Catholic Church which is universal.
T
thistle
Guest
viktor aleksndr:
Actually we belong to the Catholic Church of which the Roman Church is one part. There are several Catholic Churches which submit to the Pope.
I hope I’m not being judgemental but when anyone says they don’t want want the liturgy to be like Protestants this smacks of someone who would like the NO banned and the TLM brought back for all. Something I would not agree with.
I don’t know which church you attend but as I said I live in Manila and I’ve never seen that and as a convert to the Catholic faith from being a born and brought up Methodist I don’t know where you get the idea that what you describe is Protestant because I never saw that when I was a Methodist. How many protestant churches have you been to to make such a statement.
Actually we belong to the Catholic Church of which the Roman Church is one part. There are several Catholic Churches which submit to the Pope.
I hope I’m not being judgemental but when anyone says they don’t want want the liturgy to be like Protestants this smacks of someone who would like the NO banned and the TLM brought back for all. Something I would not agree with.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
How in the world did you connect someone’s experience in a Protestant chuch to someone who wants the NO banned?
Just putting, “I hope I am not being judgemental…” makes this even stranger.
The poster says Protestant, not Methodist. There are 1200 Protestant denominations. Just because you didn’t see it in a Methodist church doesn’t mean that handholding didn’t happen in 1100 or more, other Protestant churches.
Holding hands was not Catholic at all until the Charistmatics brought it in. In no way was it ever seen until the 70’s and in most places, not until the 90’s. You cannot say the same about the Evangelical churches which are Protestant.
Not every Japanese person eats Miso soup for breakfast, but many more do than those in America. It is Japanese. Just because some Americans also eat it, doesn’t make it American.
G
G_S
Guest
I certainly don’t mind when family members choose to hold hands during the Our Father. I certainly don’t like it when everyone is forced to do it, as once was true in our parish.
W
Walking_Home
Guest
G&S:
Mr/Ms. G&S
How did your parish do away with holding hands during the Our Father?
Mr/Ms. G&S
How did your parish do away with holding hands during the Our Father?
G
G_S
Guest
Rather simply, actually. Our pastor always had to ask everyone to join hands and even move across the aisle to do so. When the new pastor arrived, he didn’t ask the people to join hands, so no one did and no one complained.
T
thistle
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Second, as a former methodist I have the right to say I had not seen it before. As to whether it is practiced in other protestant churches that is why I asked the question above.
Third I was talking only about holding hands during the Our Father, and not at any other part of the Mass, and I was not talking about raising hands.
As we know holding hands during the Our Father IS ALLOWED.
As for your comment about Miso soup that simply a silly remark and has nothing to do with anything!
The poster stated it was a protestant practice so I asked him how he knows this and asked how many protestant churches has he attended to see such a practice to know this.
Second, as a former methodist I have the right to say I had not seen it before. As to whether it is practiced in other protestant churches that is why I asked the question above.
Third I was talking only about holding hands during the Our Father, and not at any other part of the Mass, and I was not talking about raising hands.
As we know holding hands during the Our Father IS ALLOWED.
As for your comment about Miso soup that simply a silly remark and has nothing to do with anything!
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
And I thought she was making an analogy, which by definition is a similar comparison
T
thistle
Guest
Pity you didn’t comment on the substance of the post instead of the miso soup. I know that she’s implying holding hands is protestant even if done by catholics. I happen to disagree.And I thought she was making an analogy, which by definition is a similar comparison
T
thistle
Guest
Because some posters widened the thread from the original topic let me clarify my position so there is no miso soup coming in my direction.
The original topic was ONLY raising hands just after the consecration. I said I live in Manila and had never seen that done.
Other posters brought up raising hands in other parts of the Mass and also holding hands and in my opinion some made derogatory remarks about filipino priests:
“filipino diocese finding loopholes to do what they want”
“I don’t know why some filipio priests allowed such things”
“In particular during the Our Father which is sung (guitar and drums muscians) everyone holds hands”
“Let the Filipino Catholics know that this practice is somehow a tradition of most protestants. Do we (Filipino Catholics) like to be protestants in terms of liturgy?”
As said I have never seen hands raised just after consecration so I can’t comment on that which is why I really wanted a comment from the OP as from his posts he implies this is widespread here.
As for holding hands during the Our Father nobody is obliged to do so but where it is allowed, and it certainly is allowed in many countries, nobody should complain. I also do not consider it a protestant practice now being brought into the Catholic Church to make us feel more protestant.
You know there are much bigger problems in life than holding hands or not. I don’t know why some people focus on trivial things like that.
The original topic was ONLY raising hands just after the consecration. I said I live in Manila and had never seen that done.
Other posters brought up raising hands in other parts of the Mass and also holding hands and in my opinion some made derogatory remarks about filipino priests:
“filipino diocese finding loopholes to do what they want”
“I don’t know why some filipio priests allowed such things”
“In particular during the Our Father which is sung (guitar and drums muscians) everyone holds hands”
“Let the Filipino Catholics know that this practice is somehow a tradition of most protestants. Do we (Filipino Catholics) like to be protestants in terms of liturgy?”
As said I have never seen hands raised just after consecration so I can’t comment on that which is why I really wanted a comment from the OP as from his posts he implies this is widespread here.
As for holding hands during the Our Father nobody is obliged to do so but where it is allowed, and it certainly is allowed in many countries, nobody should complain. I also do not consider it a protestant practice now being brought into the Catholic Church to make us feel more protestant.
You know there are much bigger problems in life than holding hands or not. I don’t know why some people focus on trivial things like that.
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
10 years ago in our parish people used to hold hands during the Our Father, a practice that our charismatic French Canadian Franciscan priest started.
Then we got a Filipino priest. He tolerated the hand holding for a little while, then one day he abruptly told the whole parish to stop. He said our unity is in the Eucharist, not in the holding of hands. I think he shocked them all. Even though he has moved on, the effect still remains. There is no more hand-holding during the Our Father. 
Then we got a Filipino priest. He tolerated the hand holding for a little while, then one day he abruptly told the whole parish to stop. He said our unity is in the Eucharist, not in the holding of hands. I think he shocked them all. Even though he has moved on, the effect still remains.
There is no more hand-holding during the Our Father.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Miso Soup = Analogy
"drawing a comparison in order to show a similarity in some respect; “the operation of a computer presents and interesting analogy to the working of the brain”; “the models show by analogy how matter is built up”
To say that something is “Protestant” it seems to me is actually being stated by the poster that something is not traditionally Catholic. In the 2000+ years of the Catholic church, handholding is a blip in the history. Even if one will state that it has been going on since the 70’s, that is only 30 some years.
When one takes a Traditionally Catholic as opposed to Traditionally Protestant view, one must conclude that an action which has been used in prayer by Protestants is more likely Protestant than Catholic.
Now actually, a very fine and wise poster on these boards pointed out that this action, and that includes the lifting of hands which is stemmed from the Orans position, is more “Hippy” than Protestant, but one cannot discount the Evangelical churches (Protestant) who have been using this prayer posture with a very long history.
My Presbyterian husband says that he never held hands in his church, however, he did at churches he visited in the area. In my time in Baptist churches we did. So, if you would prefer a clarification of which Protestant Denominations hold hands, that is reasonable. However, to just dismiss the idea that “Protestants don’t because I didn’t and I was one denomination.” is not really correct.
And Holding Hands IS allowed in your Diocese. In some it is not. That should also be clarified.
V
viktor_aleksndr
Guest
i disagree with you if you use the term aloowed with holding hands in Our Father. Holding hands in our father is not in the instruction and it means that it is not important and therefore it is not allowed in a sense that it is not in any church’s documents. But it is not prohibited.
About the protestants i don’t mean that all protestants do such raising of hands. But most of the protestants do it.
The point is why do such gestures which is not in the instruction. Why they dont do what is in the Sacrosanctum Concilium and the GIRM… Most of the Filipino priest doesnt even bother to bow their heads when Jesus Christ name mentioned in Gloria or in Credo. Bowing of head during the line in Creed (though we dont do the nicean creed) when Jesus Christ became Man. This line must be given respect and reverence eh?
When they pray the Glory Be they dont even dare to bow heads when the Trinity was mentioned. I think the Catholic Church in the philippines must be aware of such things which is done in the Universal Church…
- Status