Raising taxes on the rich

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If higher taxes drive out corporations and businesses, why do so many of them stick around New York? Where is the mass exodus of New York companies to Utah and Arkansas?
It’s due to a number of factors. Basically, it’s all about the bottom line. For example, it makes no sense to move the financial service industry to the Mid-West. On the other hand, it makes no sense to do manufacturing in NYC.
 
You can see how well the theory of trickle down economics works. Ha ha ha ha those republicans always crack me up when they talk about knowing whats best for the economy! hahahahaha
Yes, it’s hilarious.

t’s say I make x amount of dollars per year.

Out of that money, I not only pay my bills, tithe to the church, give extra to charity, and purchase a few amenities. I also help support other family members, and pay a local kid to do the lawn. He uses that money in turn to save for college and to buy personal items, thus relieving his parents of some of that burden.

Suddenly, Boss Hogg decides I have ‘too much money.’ That I am one of the ‘greedy rich.’

He raises my taxes, and tells you the people that it’s ‘for the children.’ What he actually does with that money is put in a new swimming pool, fund obscene art, bribe other officials, and pay for a local abortuary.

I can no longer pay the lawn boy. He’s out of a job. The extra burden is thrown onto his parents. He can’t buy personal items nor save for college.

I can’t support my ill or aging relatives, or those who lost jobs because of Hogg’s policies.

More businesses shut down. The economy rockets into the dumpster. There are bread lines, but no one can afford to make bread.

It’s a simple overview, but it’s true.
 
Yes, it’s hilarious.

t’s say I make x amount of dollars per year.

Out of that money, I not only pay my bills, tithe to the church, give extra to charity, and purchase a few amenities. I also help support other family members, and pay a local kid to do the lawn. He uses that money in turn to save for college and to buy personal items, thus relieving his parents of some of that burden.

Suddenly, Boss Hogg decides I have ‘too much money.’ That I am one of the ‘greedy rich.’

He raises my taxes, and tells you the people that it’s ‘for the children.’ What he actually does with that money is put in a new swimming pool, fund obscene art, bribe other officials, and pay for a local abortuary.

I can no longer pay the lawn boy. He’s out of a job. The extra burden is thrown onto his parents. He can’t buy personal items nor save for college.

I can’t support my ill or aging relatives, or those who lost jobs because of Hogg’s policies.

More businesses shut down. The economy rockets into the dumpster. There are bread lines, but no one can afford to make bread.

It’s a simple overview, but it’s true.
Exactly. In a heavily redistributionist economy, the only job that low income people can apply for is welfare.

-Prophesy
 
It is simply proven that we cannot rely on the market alone to provide everyone with good health insurance. It often times even leaves out the middle class, as well as the lower class.

Romneycare requires basically everyone living in Massachusetts to have a minimum level of healthcare insurance and provides free health care insurance for residents earning less than a certain amount but who are not eligible for Medicaid.
 
Exactly. In a heavily redistributionist economy, the only job that low income people can apply for is welfare.
How can we know? Even in Kenshin’s example where he gets to pick all the details you still have the jobs created from building the pool, building an art building, hiring employees to take care of those things, etc.

When thinking about economics, it’s better to talk about the things people do (i.e. what a person, group, or country is producing) rather than how the money is distributed. It’s not clear at all that higher or lower taxes are “better” unless you know exactly what’s going to be done with the money. Money is just representative of work. And that sword cuts both ways (liberal and conservative).

For example if by “creating jobs” the government hires workers dig ditches up and fill them back in, then it’s not really valuable to society. People get paid, maybe some economic disparities are avoided, but ultimately it is inefficient if not completely worthless.

On the other hand when people become wealthy enough they stop paying for things like “lawn boys” (proportionately to their wealth). More jobs are probably created by 1000 people making 1 million dollars per year than one guy making a billion dollars a year. If they get rich enough, they don’t have to work or contribute to society because they or their ancestors figured out how to game the system (which is to say they’re smart). But no one made a billion dollars in a vacuum. The opportunities are provided by the society in which they live.

This is why even though I am a dividend guy, I still think it’s only fair for people like me to have to pay regular income taxes on their dividends. I do however think that a flatter tax system without loopholes would be more fair and productive for everyone. We already give everyone a standard deduction on taxes, and that seems to be the appropriate way to account for the poor–just up the standard or base it on inflation.
 
Im not talking about communism or making everyone equal.Im saying since the wealthy have beniffited from our unfair tax system shouldn’t they be required to help out this country to get out of the mess were in?Im not advocating taking all their wealth or make them equal to everyone else.But when the top 2% control 65%of the wealth in the nation Don’t you believe we are a little out of balance and it will continue so if the republicans do you they have been debating about?thanks.I read St.John’s quote.but he isn’t talking about what im referrring to.
Raising the tax rates tends to hurt the “near rich,” more than the “true rich.” The true rich are good at tax avoidance. Raise the rate, and the up and coming guy pays more tax. Tax the really rich and you get nowhere near the extra amount you expect.
 
Raising the tax rates tends to hurt the “near rich,” more than the “true rich.” The true rich are good at tax avoidance. Raise the rate, and the up and coming guy pays more tax. Tax the really rich and you get nowhere near the extra amount you expect.
👍 That’s what I think too. Plus this stuff doesn’t get adjusted for inflation fast enough. A lot of people in their 30’s could be millionaires when they retire, but it won’t really mean what it used to mean.

Buffet seems to say that this is true even without being good at tax avoidance:
youtube.com/watch?v=Cu5B-2LoC4s
 
What if the federal government decided that we should protect lawn boys and part of your taxes would be used to pay for lawn care for everyone? Seems kind of silly, but I think in that case the problem is scope. Some people freely join HOA’s to get exactly such a situation. Some others may join HOA’s without really wanting to, but would still find it way more acceptable than a federal mandate.

I think most of the problems with the tax system is that so much stuff is too centralized and hard to manage, vote out abusers, etc. Some things appropriately belong at the federal level, but not everything.

A couple of ideas I found interesting were Georgism and Distributism, but I’m not really convinced by any theory out there. Sometimes I think that we should have some kind of closed-loop tax system based on usage–at least where possible. We would minimize the income tax and use that only for the really necessary things that need to be done at the federal level like the army, and for seed money to start new self-sustaining projects. Then everything else would be based on a use tax. So if you use the road systems, you pay taxes into that system. But the important thing is that money that goes into that system can’t be shifted to other things. Everything becomes kind of like a co-op. We would still need the seed money to get some things started. So I guess what I’m really saying is that maintenance of running systems should be self-sustaining through taxes specifically designed to target the users of those systems. I know, it’s impossible to keep something like that running without politicians changing the rules.
 
Trickle down economics did nopt work for Regan, Bush I or Bush II. Look at the numbers. These administrations were the absolute most unsuccessful administrations ever in the history of the USA at balancing the budget. Regan was the worst nobody close until Bush #1 took the record. Bush #2 shattered the record with his tax cuts for the wealthy that kept no American jobs in the USA and created the largest deficit the country has EVER known do you get thet EVER. We are still feeling the pain from the mockery his administration made of our economy. While everyone blames Obama, Bush created TARP and it was his administration’s Federal Trade Comission and such organizations that allowed Wall Street to absolutly empty out the Federal Government’s and the American perople’s pockets with illegal and immoral banking practices with complete impunity. There is no place in there where the democrats had a hand in ANY of that. It was ALL the republicans and trickle down economics that trickled everybody’s money right into the hands of the banks and the barrons that are in bed with certain people (I’m not even going to get into the NWO stuff).

I’m sorry but it was the Republicans that were behind the economic policy that sent us into a recession that is really a depression. Remember? Oh no can’t remember that. Trickle down economics works so well that with 8 years of it, our entire economy almost collapsed! Does anybody remember this happening. Am I just imagining this? How do you overlook that? When you save rich people money they do not create American jobs, THEY KEEP THE MONEY. It makes them interest in a bank account or somewhere else in their portfolio. They DO NOT “invest in America” It doesn’t matter if it’s a Japanese company, a Russian, Saudi, as long as it’s making $$$ they put $$ in it! You think they take the money they make and set it aside to specifically invest in American companies? If you believe that I got a bridge I want to sell you too.

Am I lying? I certanly don’t believe I am. I don’t get how you guys can just sweep the near collpse of our economy with Bush under the rug and point the finger at democrats for not knowing how to balance a budget when Clinton DID IT. He balanced it! Refute that while telling nothing but the truth and I’ll shut up.🍿
 
Sorry, that wasn’t very meek but I got my blood up. Now I’m done ranting, God bless y’all for real anybody want pie? 😃
 
On the other hand when people become wealthy enough they stop paying for things like “lawn boys” (proportionately to their wealth). More jobs are probably created by 1000 people making 1 million dollars per year than one guy making a billion dollars a year. If they get rich enough, they don’t have to work or contribute to society because they or their ancestors figured out how to game the system (which is to say they’re smart). But no one made a billion dollars in a vacuum. The opportunities are provided by the society in which they live.
They stop hiring “lawn boys.” What they do instead is hire estate mangers for each of their estates, who in turn hire groundskeepers, maids, butlers, event organizers, etc. In their personal life, they hire accountants, attorneys, etc. Then comes the crew for the yacht, the traveling nanny, security guards, etc.

People that think the wealthy hoard money and it has no effect on the economy. Those people are kidding themselves. Get rid of those wealthy people, and you have an economy that looks no different than, say, Mao’s China.
 
They stop hiring “lawn boys.” What they do instead is hire estate mangers for each of their estates, who in turn hire groundskeepers, maids, butlers, event organizers, etc. In their personal life, they hire accountants, attorneys, etc. Then comes the crew for the yacht, the traveling nanny, security guards, etc.

People that think the wealthy hoard money and it has no effect on the economy.
So are you going to say that 1 billionaire “trickles down” an equal amount of money as 1000 millionaires? Like I said, it’s nowhere near proportional. People at the bottom spend all of their money just to survive.
 
So are you going to say that 1 billionaire “trickles down” an equal amount of money as 1000 millionaires? Like I said, it’s nowhere near proportional. People at the bottom spend all of their money just to survive.
People at the top are the source of the money for the people at the bottom to survive.

The wealthier one is, the more spare money they have proportionately. A person with a million dollars in many areas might still mow their own lawn. The certainly won’t have an estate manager. A person with a billion dollars will have an entire support staff that he/she will pay out of pocket, plus will have enough money left over to buy a bundle of mortgages for tens of millions of dollars so that those millionaires to buy their homes.
 
Trickle down economics did nopt work for Regan, Bush I or Bush II. Look at the numbers. These administrations were the absolute most unsuccessful administrations ever in the history of the USA at balancing the budget. Regan was the worst nobody close until Bush #1 took the record. Bush #2 shattered the record with his tax cuts for the wealthy that kept no American jobs in the USA and created the largest deficit the country has EVER known do you get thet EVER. We are still feeling the pain from the mockery his administration made of our economy. While everyone blames Obama, Bush created TARP and it was his administration’s Federal Trade Comission and such organizations that allowed Wall Street to absolutly empty out the Federal Government’s and the American perople’s pockets with illegal and immoral banking practices with complete impunity. There is no place in there where the democrats had a hand in ANY of that. It was ALL the republicans and trickle down economics that trickled everybody’s money right into the hands of the banks and the barrons that are in bed with certain people (I’m not even going to get into the NWO stuff).

I’m sorry but it was the Republicans that were behind the economic policy that sent us into a recession that is really a depression. Remember? Oh no can’t remember that. Trickle down economics works so well that with 8 years of it, our entire economy almost collapsed! Does anybody remember this happening. Am I just imagining this? How do you overlook that? When you save rich people money they do not create American jobs, THEY KEEP THE MONEY. It makes them interest in a bank account or somewhere else in their portfolio. They DO NOT “invest in America” It doesn’t matter if it’s a Japanese company, a Russian, Saudi, as long as it’s making $$$ they put $$ in it! You think they take the money they make and set it aside to specifically invest in American companies? If you believe that I got a bridge I want to sell you too.

Am I lying? I certanly don’t believe I am. I don’t get how you guys can just sweep the near collpse of our economy with Bush under the rug and point the finger at democrats for not knowing how to balance a budget when Clinton DID IT. He balanced it! Refute that while telling nothing but the truth and I’ll shut up.🍿
Clinton did not balance anything under he got a Republican House in 1994. Balancing the budget was part of the Contract with America. And to say that Reagan was not successful flies in the face of stats that show when the tax rates came down, revenue into the treasury went up. And I might also suggest that you reread the rules of the forum. Insulting other posters is a no-no.
 
i never said that the less successful should be given the same priveledges as those who have worked hard and earned much money should have.This world will always have rich and poor.I believe that is not against what God intended.What should be done to people who are struggling during these difficult times?Maybe the reps.are right.I don;t know.Maybe neighbor will help neighbor and we’ll all get along.Maybe their policies are the best we can do.Maybe some of the enviormental concerns should be ignored like they recommend.Maybe few people will die because of polluted air and water.Maybe getting rid of a beautiful area because we need oil is worth the sacrifice.Its all a matter of what’s important to each of us and what’s important to us as a nation.Each has to make a decision.
Very true. But what so many want to do in the cause of helping people is actually making some of them permanently more dependent on government for their sustenance. I am all for helping those who truly can’t help themselves, but the well is fast running dry and we have to come up with bettter ways to accomplish what we want to do. We are all struggling to some extent with the way the economy is now. Groceries are up, gas is up, much of what we buy has increased in cost. Many who would normally help the poor by donations are having to cut back to take care of their own families. The whole tax code needs to be worked on and IMO the Fair Tax would be a good place to start. It would help those at the bottom of the ladder while bringing in more revenue. But talk about revamping or changing any of the social programs to make them work better for less money and the Dems start squealing like stuffed pigs. But they come up with no solutions of their own and our president is out to lunch on all of this.
 
I believe that taxes should be set on a % of your income rather than a set amount. £100 tax means more to me than a millionaire.

Let’s use a UK example. In London where there is intense traffic, there are bus lanes in which only buses are allowed to drive. The rich and the celebrities drive in these bus lanes and quite happily pay the £50 fine, because it’s nothing to them whereas everyone else has to sit in heavy traffic.
 
When you save rich people money they do not create American jobs, THEY KEEP THE MONEY. It makes them interest in a bank account or somewhere else in their portfolio. They DO NOT “invest in America” It doesn’t matter if it’s a Japanese company, a Russian, Saudi, as long as it’s making $$$ they put $$ in it! You think they take the money they make and set it aside to specifically invest in American companies? If you believe that I got a bridge I want to sell you too.
I cannot think of a single large employer that does not have rich people behind it.

I challange anyone to claim to any Wal Mart employee that the rich person that started the company he works at did not provide him a place to work and a paycheck.

Every construction site that I pass (there are much fewer now) has a bank sign next to it letting you know the rich people behind it. Perhaps these construction workers would be better off without the bank financing their current job.

There is a mansion in a nearby city that was built on top of a parking garage.
The owner also owns the garage and the building beside it and employees a few thousand people in the city. This insurance business also employees people around the world.
That money is awful busy.

Seems to me that the evidence is there to show the rich re-invest in the economy.
 
People at the top are the source of the money for the people at the bottom to survive.

The wealthier one is, the more spare money they have proportionately. A person with a million dollars in many areas might still mow their own lawn. The certainly won’t have an estate manager. A person with a billion dollars will have an entire support staff that he/she will pay out of pocket, plus will have enough money left over to buy a bundle of mortgages for tens of millions of dollars so that those millionaires to buy their homes.
People at the bottom provide cheap labor that those at the top need to increase their bottom line. One cannot survive without the other.
 
I agree with the OP, and also note that the burden should fall on those shoulders strong enough to bear it—obviously the rich have the money, AND ALSO the Current System benefits them.

ADD to THIS that the rich ACTIVELY LOBBY their private interests, and have the funds to affect votes on tax policy, one should be very leery of giving the Rich a big existential pass from being citizens.

Additionally, there’s a strong moral reason: we’ve learned the problems of creating rentier societies, and how it eventually dissipates national wealth.
 
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