Ralphy's Questions for Catholics

[tmac1956]

If Pope Innocent’s declaration of the contents of the Bible was not infallible, then we can only guess at what belongs in the Bible - there is no way to be certain that we have gotten the right books in there.

What do you think - can we trust that Pope Innocent got the right books in there?

I think the Calvinist R C Sproul was honest enough to put this particular debate in context:

(Paraphrase) Catholics believe in an infallible collection of infallible books; Protestants believe in a fallible collection of infallible books.

In so stating this conundrum, he is, in essence, admitting that the Protestant position is untenable.

 

[tmac1956]

Actually I think its everybody but Catholics who like to throw that word around. We Catholic’s know that he (the Pope), is only infallible when teaching on matters of faith and morals, the Holy Spirit leads to all truth and will not allow him to err in these matters.

I am a Catholic, Latin Rite, I guess some refer to us as Roman Catholic, to me Roman Catholic means that I follow the teachings of Jesus and they are handed on by the Pope - still-all of them. He is the Vicar of Christ, His representative in the visable Church on earth, the Church that the Bible speaks of as the Pillar and foundation of the Truth. (Jesus is the truth). We are the Church Militant (on earth).

Perhaps ralphy is confusing limited infallibility with impeccability.

 

[sodak]

Perhaps ralphy is confusing limited infallibility with impeccability.

Or clouding the issue. This has been brought up several times. To confuse the issue, one must be truly unaware of the difference.

 

[ralphy]

Luke 10:16.

That statement was in reference to God,I hope that you are not putting the pope on the same level. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

Perhaps ralphy is confusing limited infallibility with impeccability.

The word the Roman catholic church uses is “infallible”. Ralph

 

[davidv]

The word the Roman catholic church uses is “infallible”. Ralph

So, how does the Catholic Church use “infallible”. Where is it found? Are there any limitations?

 

[jmcrae]

That statement was in reference to God,I hope that you are not putting the pope on the same level. Ralph

Whoever hears the Pope (“you”), hears God (“me”).

 

[ralphy]

Whoever hears the Pope (“you”), hears God (“me”).

Where did you get this from? Ralph

 

[jmcrae]

Where did you get this from? Ralph

Round and round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

Okay - I got that from Luke 10:16.

Jesus (God) is speaking to Peter (who is the first Pope) and He says, “Whoever hears you (“you” meaning Peter, the Pope) hears Me (“Me” meaning Himself - God)”.

 

[Shannon9791]

So I’ve read this whole thread and have watched as a few noble souls have tried and tried to show ralphy many different things he has wrong about the Catholic Church over and over again to which he simply replies, “Show me where that is in the Bible,” or “If it’s not from God it’s from man, and I believe in God.” My question is, when is it an appropriate time to give up? I wish ralphy well, and I want him to find out about the One True Faith like everyone else on here, but he’s just not buying it. We can throw verse after verse at him, which I have seen over the course of 30 some-odd pages only to watch ralphy say that if something doesn’t come explicitly from the Bible, he doesn’t believe it, which to me is a silly thing to say anyway, because no where in the Bible does it mention TVs, computers, elephants, or mohawks but I’m sure ralphy has no qualms whatsoever about believing in any of those things. So again I ask, when do you throw in the towel?

 

[CentralFLJames]

So I’ve read this whole thread and have watched as a few noble souls have tried and tried to show ralphy many different things he has wrong about the Catholic Church over and over again to which he simply replies, “Show me where that is in the Bible,” or “If it’s not from God it’s from man, and I believe in God.” My question is, when is it an appropriate time to give up? I wish ralphy well, and I want him to find out about the One True Faith like everyone else on here, but he’s just not buying it. We can throw verse after verse at him, which I have seen over the course of 30 some-odd pages only to watch ralphy say that if something doesn’t come explicitly from the Bible, he doesn’t believe it, which to me is a silly thing to say anyway, because no where in the Bible does it mention TVs, computers, elephants, or mohawks but I’m sure ralphy has no qualms whatsoever about believing in any of those things. So again I ask, when do you throw in the towel?

Do exorcists ever give up and let the devil take a soul?

James

 

[Shannon9791]

Do exorcists ever give up and let the devil take a soul?

James

I don’t think they would, but I’m not an exorcist, and I don’t think I’d really want to be one, but that’s just me. But it would seem that along the way the exocists make some sort of progress in casting out demons. I have seen this thread say basically the same 5 or 6 things over and over again. I am a firm believer in letting things marinate for a little while before you get back into it, and the fact of the matter is either ralphy’s just here to bug the snot out of you with his illogical arguments that have no basis in reality, or he’s just hard headed and can’t see the world past his own nose. Either way it seems your playing with Sisyphus’ stone.

 

[cazayoux]

So again I ask, when do you throw in the towel?

neeeveeeer … hehehehe

The reason I come here is to have these exact types of discussions.
I learn about my Catholic faith.
I learn the what and why of our beliefs.
If I get challenging questions, I revel in it … because it helps me learn more.

Ralphy hasn’t been a workout at all.
He has not brought any stumpers.
Everything he’s questioned, I’ve shown him the answer in scripture.
Every verse he’s given, I’ve had to show him the context of that very verse.
(funny how two or three verses before and after can really shed light)

It’s obvious to me that Ralphy has not sat and read scripture on his own.
He has a list of citations he got from someone else and spits one out every now an then.
He has not shown himself capable of having any back and forth discussion FROM SCRIPTURE about what he believes.

Still … it’s been fun.

It’s actually given me the chance to coordinate some of my answers per topic.
It’s also been one more proof that there is NO verse in scripture that proves the Catholic church wrong on any issue.
Ralphy has fired the shotgun of verses … and not one has damaged us.

I’ll keep going, because I do actually think Ralphy is learning…
1 - that Catholics know their bible
2 - have biblical reasons for what we believe
3 - do not shrink and shriek when a verse is thrown at us
4 - even though he’s shown extreme prejudice … we still love him
5 - HE might be learning what the Catholic church ACTUALLY believes rather than the comic book version someone taught him

michel

 

[cazayoux]

I don’t think they would, but I’m not an exorcist, and I don’t think I’d really want to be one, but that’s just me. But it would seem that along the way the exocists make some sort of progress in casting out demons. I have seen this thread say basically the same 5 or 6 things over and over again. I am a firm believer in letting things marinate for a little while before you get back into it, and the fact of the matter is either ralphy’s just here to bug the snot out of you with his illogical arguments that have no basis in reality, or he’s just hard headed and can’t see the world past his own nose. Either way it seems your playing with Sisyphus’ stone.

we have no idea what effect we may be having on Ralphy or any other lurker.
So the discussion isn’t just for Ralphy’s eyes.
… and even if we never see any good come from this conversation ourselves … we have to have certainty that God is using it for something.
it’s okay that we don’t see all the results … we plant the seeds.

i tell my sons in baseball … you throw that ball to the first basemen as hard as you can. it’s your job to throw … it’s his job to catch. you do your job.

we are doing our job … we’ll let the Holy Spirit do His.



michel

 

[Shannon9791]

neeeveeeer … hehehehe

The reason I come here is to have these exact types of discussions.
I learn about my Catholic faith.
I learn the what and why of our beliefs.
If I get challenging questions, I revel in it … because it helps me learn more.

Ralphy hasn’t been a workout at all.
He has not brought any stumpers.
Everything he’s questioned, I’ve shown him the answer in scripture.
Every verse he’s given, I’ve had to show him the context of that very verse.
(funny how two or three verses before and after can really shed light)

It’s obvious to me that Ralphy has not sat and read scripture on his own.
He has a list of citations he got from someone else and spits one out every now an then.
He has not shown himself capable of having any back and forth discussion FROM SCRIPTURE about what he believes.

Still … it’s been fun.

It’s actually given me the chance to coordinate some of my answers per topic.
It’s also been one more proof that there is NO verse in scripture that proves the Catholic church wrong on any issue.
Ralphy has fired the shotgun of verses … and not one has damaged us.

I’ll keep going, because I do actually think Ralphy is learning…
1 - that Catholics know their bible
2 - have biblical reasons for what we believe
3 - do not shrink and shriek when a verse is thrown at us
4 - even though he’s shown extreme prejudice … we still love him
5 - HE might be learning what the Catholic church ACTUALLY believes rather than the comic book version someone taught him

michel

I’ll definitely agree that ralphy hasn’t thrown out anything earth shaking since this thread was started, and I’ll also agree that he probably hasn’t done as much Bible reading as he says he has, which is why I asked the question I did. It just seems like you and James are trying to have a policy debate and ralphy’s going the Lincoln/Douglas (tastes great/less filling for those old enough to remember) route.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I don’t think they would, but I’m not an exorcist, and I don’t think I’d really want to be one, but that’s just me. But it would seem that along the way the exocists make some sort of progress in casting out demons. I have seen this thread say basically the same 5 or 6 things over and over again. I am a firm believer in letting things marinate for a little while before you get back into it, and the fact of the matter is either ralphy’s just here to bug the snot out of you with his illogical arguments that have no basis in reality, or he’s just hard headed and can’t see the world past his own nose. Either way it seems your playing with Sisyphus’ stone.

Catholics here are just honing their skills and hoping that others lurking in this thread are learning something and will come out and ask questions. At least Ralphy has been civil and charitable - even though he is very stubborn. That’s a lot more than I can say for 80% of those that we see typically in these kinds of discussions.

James

 

[Shannon9791]

Catholics here are just honing their skills and hoping that others lurking in this thread are learning something and will come out and ask questions. At least Ralphy has been civil and charitable - even though he is very stubborn. That’s a lot more than I can say for 80% of those that we see typically in these kinds of discussions.

James

I will definitely say he has been quite civil, and that’s definitely a good thing. I can’t think of any thread that has gone on for this long about a subject such as this without becoming and all out fiasco. To this, I say, keep on honing brothers, sooner or later someone’s going to try to bring the pain, and it’s going to take a good number of us to handle them.

 

[ralphy]

Round and round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

Okay - I got that from Luke 10:16.

Jesus (God) is speaking to Peter (who is the first Pope) and He says, “Whoever hears you (“you” meaning Peter, the Pope) hears Me (“Me” meaning Himself - God)”.

So in fact you are saying that peter and God were equal,right? I wonder who said that Peter was the first pope, was it God,was it Peter himself, or just maybe the Roman catholic chuch said that,hmmm, I wonder. Do you know? Ralph

 

[ralphy]

Catholics here are just honing their skills and hoping that others lurking in this thread are learning something and will come out and ask questions. At least Ralphy has been civil and charitable - even though he is very stubborn. That’s a lot more than I can say for 80% of those that we see typically in these kinds of discussions.

James

Guess Ralphy has a question. How do Roman catholics get to heaven. Ralph

 

[paul_c]

Guess Ralphy has a question. How do Roman catholics get to heaven. Ralph

They first are baptized, making them a member of the Church, cleansing them from sin and putting them in a state of grace sufficient to be saved.

They then spend the rest of their lives staying in the state of Grace by doing God’s will, which can be summarized as Loving God and Loving their neighbor as themselves. This is basically following the example laid out by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.

If they fall from Grace through sin, they go to confession, repent from their sins and do the required penance, thus putting them back in the state of Grace.

If they die in the state of Grace, they will Go to heaven.

If you really spend 43 years as a Catholic, you should know this. Its the most basic of Catholic teaching.