Rampant Scrupulosity

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Isca said:
I’d never come across the term “scrupulosity” either, until I joined this forum. The actively-charitable Catholics I know don’t even consider themselves very spiritual, they don’t think about “being Catholic” much - but to me, they are living their faith.

One lady (in her 70s, with a sick husband) spends all her time doing things for him and others. This involves buying for the soup kitchen, going to Mass virtually every day and helping there, organising parcels for Christmas for the house-bound and organising the Christmas lunch, helping whenever needed at the daily food distribution at church, taking various old people here, there and everywhere in her car … it never ends.

I told her I was going to Lourdes later this month and asked if she’d been. She said “Oh, that’s not really for me, I’m not very religious”. I laughed, I said she was the most religious person I’ve ever known - her whole life was about service to others. She just modestly shrugged that off as something anyone would do.

So basically, you’ll never see her on this forum, but she is an example for me and anyone who wants to know what a “good Catholic” looks like. 🙂
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Great story.
I think this is where the frustration comes from.
Some folks believe that there is a series of boxes one checks off, and then you “win” a ticket to heaven, and they are unduly frightened that they have missed one of the boxes. This woman you describe lives the Gospel.
Thanks for posting this!
 
Actually, Mintaka, there IS a way to stop people from using the internet as a stand-in for talking to a priest: It’s called “tell people to stop using the internet and talk to a priest instead.”

That rarely happens here. Instead, what we get are, as I said, responders who just regurgitate over and over, “the 3 things needed for mortal sin are X Y and Z…, etc.,” in other words, who actually give the scrupulous exactly what they don’t need, namely, people to smile and tell them all is well. They’re not fine, and all isn’t well. They need help, not anonymous so-called advice from people in no position to give it.

I speculate that some of these advice-offerers are themselves co-dependent.

Further, the whole “let them ask their questions!” forgets that this board, and life, isn’t a 1-on-1 forum. When 3 or 4 really scrupulous posters appear, others come out of the woodwork and decide, “hey, this is the place for us!” Guess what happens? This board ceases to be “moral theology” and becomes “scrupulous anonymous.” Heck it already is. Worse, it leads lurkers to view Catholicism as nothing but a set of boxes to be checked (hat tip to PianistClare) and a “religion of nutcases” and “rules lawyers” who can quote the Catechism but haven’t bought a can of soup for a food drive in a decade. I’m sorry, but that is exactly how Catholicism often comes across on this board.
 
Bookcat said:
I will re-post an older post of mine

A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?

A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” *who can direct them --and even give them some general principles/rules to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience). Thus with their direction they can dismiss scruples. Such is the age old practice in the Church.

*Scruples are to be dismissed not argued with.

Scruples are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * One keeps walking.

(image from a Carthusian writer from centuries ago).

As to counseling - that could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/) Some person with scrupulosity may yes also suffer from OCD - but the two are not simply equated.

Here is an article from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.

ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
Also I will add that a person can go through a case of “transient scruples”. Which is good news in a way. For they are more easily dealt with.

Such can be due to being a convert to the faith. Such is noted in theological works in terms of (some of) those who have a conversion (even if they were a Catholic all their life - but now have had a more intense turning to Christ and seeking Christian perfection).

Such can even be helpful for they can make one be more sensitive in conscience in a good way. Helpful that is if you have a regular confessor who can judge your case - and who can then direct you and help you in forming your conscience and in doing so the “transient scruples” can clear up and one can go forward with a better formed conscience and commitment to the Lord.

In any case - a regular confessor is key for those who struggle with scruples - be they transient or a more persistent difficulty

Work with a regular confessor he can determine if one struggles from scruples and guide one.
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One will find commenters here frequently sending those with scruples to Priests with love and mercy. Though sometimes too an additional “no it is not a sin” etc can help them along with that.

I have been here a long time it yes that happens often. I myself frequently post this post above for those who struggle with such.

And since often those sorts of threads refer to scruples and scrupulosity by commenters so often - readers who are not aware - will become aware that such is a difficulty for those souls - a struggle - not the way to aim at or the norm in the Church.
 
While this may be more suited for the Suggestion Box, it seems to me that it would help the quality of discourse on the Moral Theology sub-subforum, if certain topics are closed fairly early when it is obvious that the question is a scrupulous one.

I have seen mods step into close topics pretty early with a “Question Answered, Thread Closed” in other sub-subforums of the Apologetics subforum. But that seems to be mostly if (1) it’s obvious the poster’s question was not in good faith (otherwise known as trolling) or (2) the topic goes off-topic extremely quickly and cannot be salvaged.
 
Scruples are ramoant always

The number one thing you hear from church leavers is “ugh all I hear is everything is a sin, we are all going to hell and blah balh”

When you talk to then half of what they heard was a sin isnt…

Heck I was part of that crew too, used to think what a crazy bunch of people must be to think all these things were evil…

Then I read the Catechism and O.o the catechism is not crazy!! Woo

And then on here though even the “non-scrupulous” people debate the finer points of what makes a sin.

So as someone like me sees a few of the not so scrupulous as still oddly scrupulous…

It is humans, I mean history is wrought with layman made decisions in the name of Catholiscm that was never chirch approved etc…

😦
 
Being one who has severe OCD with extra difficulties with Religious OCD, I can honestly tell you that we can’t just turn it off. It is a horrible illness to have and we suffer more than most people could possibly imagine. If you had my thoughts and emotional make-up for one day, you’d honestly get a foretaste of Hell and I’m not one to use that catch phrase lightly. The total absence of God and the constant feelings that you are bad, or damned and even hated by God as you are, truly is a living hell. It really truly is. 😦
 
PolarGuy said:
Actually, Mintaka, there IS a way to stop people from using the internet as a stand-in for talking to a priest: It’s called “tell people to stop using the internet and talk to a priest instead.”

That rarely happens here. Instead, what we get are, as I said, responders who just regurgitate over and over, “the 3 things needed for mortal sin are X Y and Z…, etc.,” in other words, who actually give the scrupulous exactly what they don’t need, namely, people to smile and tell them all is well. They’re not fine, and all isn’t well. They need help, not anonymous so-called advice from people in no position to give it.

I speculate that some of these advice-offerers are themselves co-dependent.

Further, the whole “let them ask their questions!” forgets that this board, and life, isn’t a 1-on-1 forum. When 3 or 4 really scrupulous posters appear, others come out of the woodwork and decide, “hey, this is the place for us!” Guess what happens? This board ceases to be “moral theology” and becomes “scrupulous anonymous.” Heck it already is. Worse, it leads lurkers to view Catholicism as nothing but a set of boxes to be checked (hat tip to PianistClare) and a “religion of nutcases” and “rules lawyers” who can quote the Catechism but haven’t bought a can of soup for a food drive in a decade. I’m sorry, but that is exactly how Catholicism often comes across on this board.
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I’ve dealt with you before. I’m so dearly sorry my horrible “nutcase” sufferings make you and your precious image of a Catholic look bad. You need to take a good look in the mirror at your own faults and deficiencies because I see many. You are truly horrible to make these attacks of those with mental illnesses for the sake of your precious Image. You have not a clue at what we suffer. If you did you’d keep your mouth shut and pray for us instead. :mad:
 
Convert_in_99 said:
I’ve dealt with you before. I’m so dearly sorry my horrible “nutcase” sufferings make you and your precious image of a Catholic look bad. You need to take a good look in the mirror at your own faults and deficiencies because I see many. You are truly horrible to make these attacks of those with mental illnesses for the sake of your precious Image. You have not a clue at what we suffer. If you did you’d keep your mouth shut and pray for us instead. :mad:
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PolarGuy is a very nice guy Convert. He’s not talking about people like you who are great and honest posters. There are others who sometimes deliberately refuse even the best counsel and most sympathy a person can give. I’m positive he’s not talking to you or anyone remotely like you.

Love you girl…everyone keeps you in their prayers.
Clare
 
Convert, I am most assuredly not attacking you.

That said, if you’d maybe just take a deep breath and re-read what I posted, what you will see that I take issue with is NOT the scrupulous; not per se, anyways. People who have genuine mental issues cannot be faulted for them. What I take issue with is the following:
  1. Those who mis-counsel the scrupulous, whether out of some misguided sense of their own need for importance; a misguided conscience; or whatever, and
  2. Those with scruples who despite same absolutely will not take advice and who instead come to this board over and over again asking essentially the same question. That frequently includes children who IMHO should not even be allowed to post here.
    Yes; that gets old; and yes, that causes others to think Catholics and Catholicism is a religion comprised entirely of severely troubled people. If you’d like to be offended by what I said, I can’t stop you, but I would charitably point out that what I’ve written: that this board is often dominated by the scrupulous - is nonetheless true, to a point where the non-scrupulous flee. If people have scruples, the solution isn’t for them to declare “you are wicked, and you have no idea how bad we have it!!” Instead It’s to maybe see that the frustration of the non-scrupulous is understandable.
 
I agree about the children.
We see more and more 14 year olds posting with grown up problems…and people treating them like they are 30!
I t would seem unwise to talk to internet strangers if one is 14.
I for one, have decided NOT to respond to anyone who claims to be that young.
It’s not a good idea for me either. As a Church employee I am bound to Safe Environment restrictions.
Or maybe folks are misrepresenting themselves. 🤷 But best to be on the safe side.
 
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