Rant: When We Don’t Show Each Other Love, We Are Bad Witnesses of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

[TrueLight]

If you are tired of reading about how Catholics are unfriendly, please move on.

John 13: 34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

When I first started going to mass, I didn’t feel very welcome. In general that hasn’t changed although I have met 1 or two people by attending an RCIA class.
This morning as I left mass, I felt sad. Why?

As I walked out, about 3 people walked out with me. They did not make any eye contact in the vestibule. As I stepped out onto the church steps, another woman was walking into the church. I tried to make eye contact but she kept her head down.

If anyone was observing, we might have appeared as two ships passing in the night/day.
Where does this individualistic attitude come from? We are supposed to be the Church – a community of believers.
The Acts of the Apostles are filled with interactions between the believers, whether it is friendly or unfriendly. They met together and ate together. They discussed doctrine together. Some of these doctrinal discussions got pretty heated. They stood steadfast together. They died together.
By the way, in my opinion, the sign of peace, although nice means nothing if it is just a formality.
Is it because we are comfortable in Catholicism that there seems to be so little community? Do we need to be persecuted first? I wonder how it is with those whose lives are in danger for being Catholic. Is it a cultural thing? I would love to hear how it is in Latin America.

1 John 5: 7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love

For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

What is this love? Is it theoretical? Does one say Good morning to a brother or sister that is entering or leaving a church? Or is it all about “me and God”.

Now I know some of you are tired of my rants because this is not the first time I have spoken of this.

Yes, not all parishes are the same.
No I have not been to the myriad of parishes in NYC. I’ve only been to 4.
Do I want a new family of brothers and sisters like I had in the Protestant Church – many of whom will be my friends forever? ABSOLUTELY!

Please don’t tell me “Catholics are just… different. Not better or worse.”

Also, please don’t take the attitude of “Who is this non-Catholic criticizing Catholics? “ I’m going to be one of you sooner rather than later – like it or not.

Rant officially over.

 

[Binary]

I think this is an ingrained part of American culture, or at least it seems to be in large parts of the East Coast. We’re suspicious of strangers and we are afraid of drawing attention to ourselves. I can’t tell you how many times people in DC have reacted as though I just handed them a dead rat because I said “hello” to them.

People seem to be more friendly in the midwest.

 

[vsedriver]

Yes, not all parishes are the same.
No I have not been to the myriad of parishes in NYC. I’ve only been to 4.
Do I want a new family of brothers and sisters like I had in the Protestant Church – many of whom will be my friends forever? ABSOLUTELY!

Please don’t tell me “Catholics are just… different. Not better or worse.”

Also, please don’t take the attitude of “Who is this non-Catholic criticizing Catholics? “ I’m going to be one of you sooner rather than later – like it or not.

Rant officially over.

It does take time for people to get to know each other. Love does take time, it doesn’t happen overnight no matter what Hollywood would like to see happen. I was a member of my parish for 30 years before people knew me enough to smile and engage. I did that by joining in and taking part in church activities and committees. Now people know me and I know them, but before I was just another stranger in the pew next to them.

You make the first move even if they don’t respond. Smile and say hello, some will respond some won’t but at least you are making the effort.

Also many come to church with woes and worries on their minds. Perhaps they are not in the right frame of mind to be sociable.

 

[DCNBILL]

Yes, not all parishes are the same.
No I have not been to the myriad of parishes in NYC. I’ve only been to 4.
Do I want a new family of brothers and sisters like I had in the Protestant Church – many of whom will be my friends forever? ABSOLUTELY!

Please don’t tell me “Catholics are just… different. Not better or worse.”

Also, please don’t take the attitude of “Who is this non-Catholic criticizing Catholics? “ I’m going to be one of you sooner rather than later – like it or not.

Rant officially over.

The one time I was in New York it seemed to me everyone was like this inside and outside of church.

 

[archangel04]

Thats the culture in most major cities/suburbs. I remember when I went to the Vigin Islands, almost everyone who passed by me would say “good day”. That was strange to me becuase in Chicago and suburbs we don’t say hello to any stranger, we just put on our ipods or plant our faces on the phone and text, and walk around like we are the only people in the city. Now in most large parishes it’s hard to start to get to know people unless you get involved in someway. Also consider that there are some people who may be shy, or they might be contemplating before entering the church and just don’t notice other people. The problem is you just don’t know what they are thinking, so just say hello, get involve with the parish, and make your self known. I know this is different with many prtestants because the majority belong to small groups, and those that don’t, they have a pasto which encourages community.

 

[Dgilomen]

Specifically relating to Catholic culture, I think there is a lack of friendliness before and after mass for several reasons – 1) In many Catholic parishes, there are so many families that it is difficult to know if a new face is a visitor or maybe just someone who normally attends a different weekend mass. I personally have not risked saying hello because I’m afraid I would come off as patronizing if I “welcomed” someone who has been a long-time member of the parish – our paths may have just never crossed. 2) There are a lot of people out there who attend mass for worship, but not fellowship. I realize it would be wonderful for many to have that as part of our time Sunday mornings, but it is often reserved for other, more social settings (like coffee and donuts after mass).

I have found a welcoming community when I get involved in other areas of ministry – like religious formation – and even more so if you engage in specifically social events (Friday fish frys during Lent, pancake breakfasts, bunco nights, etc…)

I would recommend that if you truly want to be engaged in your church community, you need to find other areas to get to know your fellow parishioners that are more suitable for social interaction than mass. It’s up to you! I hope and pray that you find what you’re looking for!

 

[Lovesa]

I’d agree that it’s best to try and get involved. I’ve had the same problem in my Lutheran church, albeit from the other side (I can be very unwelcoming; I’m very contemplative at church and only notice friends unless I really try). Our pastor was very into community, but when a lot of visitors started coming to our church nobody knew quite how to handle it. In our hands-off American culture (even if we were in the Midwest) that meant “Wait for them to make the first move.” It’s taken about six years for our congregation to get into the groove of saying hi and being welcoming to guests, and we’re a congregation of only about 60-80 on any given Sunday. I imagine it’s more intimidating in bigger churches. However, I do think you’re right in a way. Being welcoming is something we all should work on, in the spirit of church community.

 

[laszlo]

This is a major problem in the Catholic Church.

Traditionally in the rural environment, and also in the ethnic churches of the inner cities everybody knew everybody; and the Mass was also community gathering after the Liturgy outside of the church.

As Catholics lost this root, they also lost the friendliness toward others. This is most emphasized for the Traditional communities.

This is remarkable, because most protestant communities kept it, despite the social/cultural changes.

 

[Soler]

If you are tired of reading about how Catholics are unfriendly, please move on.

When I first started going to mass, I didn’t feel very welcome. In general that hasn’t changed although I have met 1 or two people by attending an RCIA class.
This morning as I left mass, I felt sad. Why?

As I walked out, about 3 people walked out with me. They did not make any eye contact in the vestibule. As I stepped out onto the church steps, another woman was walking into the church. I tried to make eye contact but she kept her head down.

If anyone was observing, we might have appeared as two ships passing in the night/day.
Where does this individualistic attitude come from? We are supposed to be the Church – a community of believers.
The Acts of the Apostles are filled with interactions between the believers, whether it is friendly or unfriendly. They met together and ate together. They discussed doctrine together. Some of these doctrinal discussions got pretty heated. They stood steadfast together. They died together.
By the way, in my opinion, the sign of peace, although nice means nothing if it is just a formality.
Is it because we are comfortable in Catholicism that there seems to be so little community? Do we need to be persecuted first? I wonder how it is with those whose lives are in danger for being Catholic. Is it a cultural thing? I would love to hear how it is in Latin America.

What is this love? Is it theoretical? Does one say Good morning to a brother or sister that is entering or leaving a church? Or is it all about “me and God”.

Now I know some of you are tired of my rants because this is not the first time I have spoken of this.

Yes, not all parishes are the same.
No I have not been to the myriad of parishes in NYC. I’ve only been to 4.
Do I want a new family of brothers and sisters like I had in the Protestant Church – many of whom will be my friends forever? ABSOLUTELY!

Please don’t tell me “Catholics are just… different. Not better or worse.”

Also, please don’t take the attitude of “Who is this non-Catholic criticizing Catholics? “ I’m going to be one of you sooner rather than later – like it or not.

Rant officially over.

simultaneously bemused and exasperated

(ahem)

IF YOU, FOR WHATEVER GOOD REASON, WANT TO TALK TO TOTAL STRANGERS, MAKE THE EFFORT YOURSELF.

Do you seriously expect someone to greet you simply because you “[try] to make eye contact”? It’s very possible that the woman in question would have greeted you cordially had you greeted her first. If you think about it objectively, you were no less unfriendly than anyone else in the church.

I myself would very rarely, if at all, greet someone I had never previously spoken to. I would be afraid of irritating and/or embarrassing them—and thereby embarassing myself in the process.

And I don’t see what love has to do with it. Sure, if there’s a lonely- and harmless-looking old man who sits at the back and never speaks to anyone, it might be an act of charity to strike up a conversation with him. But that doesn’t mean everyone gets a warm and welcoming feeling when greeted by strangers after Mass (although I do).

Indeed, if I were on holidays in the States, and some beaming American greeted me after Mass, I would feel more intimidated than anything else.

 

[Monica4316]

I tend not to talk to people after Mass unless I already know them, or they are introducing themselves to me… I dont know, I just come to Mass to pray. I generally don’t talk to anyone except if I see a friend. My intention is not to be uncharitable…I just don’t see it as an occasion to talk, I don’t know, I could be wrong…

 

[BiscuitCrusader]

My dear sibling, these people are your own brothers and sisters in the faith. Perhaps they are thinking the very same things as you, no? Perhaps they are just too shy to speak with you openly. Maybe you should make the first move. Remember, what you see on the outside is often a very poor reflection of what is on the outside- they may seem to be individualistic, but they could just be used to having a closed relationship with God, and maybe you can bring them and yourself a step closer to heaven, and to yourself, by simply getting into a conversation with them and bringing your fellows into a new understanding of what it means to be a part of the Christian family. It may be hard or scary, but persevere and you will be rewarded with new friends and a better social circle. You all walk with God. Remember that and hold it in your heart.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I live in an area where if I go 10 miles east I attend a rural church. If I go 10 miles west I can attend a church in the city. In the rural area most everyone knows each other because it is a small town and that’s just the way it is in small towns.
When I go into the city people are a little more aloof and withdrawn, unless I attend a church with a school where families know each other because of school reasons.
One thought I have here, is that traditionally in a Catholic church we were taught to enter, pray and when done praying be quiet because others were praying. I am always shushing my family because that is what I was taught. You enter and pray quietly. When leaving people sometimes stay and pray, so again you would be quiet. It just seems to me I always can remember waiting until we were totally outside before talking. We were taught to be courteous to those left praying before the Blessed Sacrament. In a protestant church that isn’t typically the tradition. People gather and talk as soon as they get there and again as soon as service is over. Rarely have I seen people staying to pray, so there isn’t that tradition to be quiet until outside. I think alot of their focus is on fellowship on Sundays at Church, whereas Catholics it is worship on Sundays and fellowship elsewhere.
So, I do suggest getting involved in something. There is almost always a need for women to help in soup kitchens, school kitchens, or other Catholic charities.
I have been a protestant from many different denominations and I have been Catholic and one thing I have learned is people are the same. There are people who are outgoing and friendly and people who are shy and quiet. Even though, I may go on a little long on the forum, in public I am quiet and I like others, sometimes wait for the other person to greet first. Right or wrong, I have to on occasion force my self to be the first to say hello.

Apparently God is calling you home to the Catholic church and I am sure as people get to know you and you become more involved you will meet many nice people. I am a revert and am kind of going through the same thing, trying to meet other Catholics to fellowship with in my area.

God Bless:hug3:

 

[valentino]

You mustn’t be turned off if people keep to themselves and prefer to pray or attend Mass privately.Many people today have deep concerns about religion and all matters concerning morals.This society is breaking apart and people are having hard times understanding what’s going on.It doesn’t mean they don’t love their fellowman but it can be a little frightening to express your feelings outwardly.I’m sure that not all your fellow parishers feel this way.If you feel more at ease or happier around people who are more outwardly demonstrative in their feelings of love for one another try a little harder to seek them out.All parishes have certain sections where people behave a little differently.Don’t expect everyone to act the way you feel.There are days when I myself want to be by myself in church and other days when I wish to be more friendly.Were not a perfect society or church.

 

[TrueLight]

I think this is an ingrained part of American culture, or at least it seems to be in large parts of the East Coast. We’re suspicious of strangers and we are afraid of drawing attention to ourselves. I can’t tell you how many times people in DC have reacted as though I just handed them a dead rat because I said “hello” to them.

People seem to be more friendly in the midwest.

It may be a NY thing. I don’t walk around smiling at people, which prompts strange men who have nothing better to say, to urge me to smile. However, I would expect in a house of God where we at least have Catholicism in common, there would at least be a benevolent smile.

It does take time for people to get to know each other. Love does take time, it doesn’t happen overnight no matter what Hollywood would like to see happen. I was a member of my parish for 30 years before people knew me enough to smile and engage.

I think that’s sad.

I did that by joining in and taking part in church activities and committees. Now people know me and I know them, but before I was just another stranger in the pew next to them.

I am used to joining groups/ministries. I have always done that especially when I have attended mega-churches. Looking at church bulletins though, I don’t see anything I really want to get involved with. Maybe there are groups that are not published.

So far, the common groups I see in bulletins are:

Knights of Columbus - obviously, I don’t qualify
Legion of Mary - Considering its focus on Mary, I am not ready to join such a group at this time.
Book Club - Not exactly what I’m looking for.
Choir- Not interested in joining as I already sing with a choir.

I have been thinking about this over and over and I don’t feel led to any of those groups.

You make the first move even if they don’t respond. Smile and say hello, some will respond some won’t but at least you are making the effort.

I’m pretty friendly. I have said hello and have gotten mostly mumbled hellos. sigh.

 

[TrueLight]

I know this is different with many prtestants because the majority belong to small groups, and those that don’t, they have a pasto which encourages community.

The thing is, I understand that in order to meet people one should get involved. I just don’t understand why one can’t even smile or nod, or otherwise acknowledge a sister/brother.

In many Catholic parishes, there are so many families that it is difficult to know if a new face is a visitor or maybe just someone who normally attends a different weekend mass.

Good point.

I have found a welcoming community when I get involved in other areas of ministry – like religious formation – and even more so if you engage in specifically social events (Friday fish frys during Lent, pancake breakfasts, bunco nights, etc…)

Is it in NYC?

 

[MaryAnne77]

My husband and I attended Mass for two years pretty faithfully at the same parish, and when I was put on strict bed rest during my first pregnancy and missed for FOUR MONTHS, we got nary a phone call or anything. When we returned, no one welcomed us back or said anything about our absence. This was also after submitting our envelope with $25.00 every single week for two years!

It is sad, but that’s the way it is in large parishes. You’re either in the “cool kids clique” or you’re a nameless face. This is where the Mormons get it right (maybe one of the ONLY ways!), and why they are able to poach so many Catholics looking for true fellowship.

 

[archangel04]

The thing is, I understand that in order to meet people one should get involved. I just don’t understand why one can’t even smile or nod, or otherwise acknowledge a sister/brother.

It just the times we live in. We live in a culture where it’s about the individualis, hence my resligion description “on my own”. “Make friends not with those who are spiritually/emotianelly beneficial for you but those who can get you in high places” is the mantality in our culture. It’s no wonder why younger generations of now manners! I’ve worked with young teens and I can tell you they are rude! No manners or respect. I don’t blame them, I place who ever is responsible for them.

 

[TrueLight]

IF YOU, FOR WHATEVER GOOD REASON, WANT TO TALK TO TOTAL STRANGERS, MAKE THE EFFORT YOURSELF.

Oh I do. But I’m talking about a way of viewing life and Christian brotherhood. I don’t talk to strangers in the street, but Christians are related.

I myself would very rarely, if at all, greet someone I had never previously spoken to. I would be afraid of irritating and/or embarrassing them—and thereby embarassing myself in the process.

And I don’t see what love has to do with it. Sure, if there’s a lonely- and harmless-looking old man who sits at the back and never speaks to anyone, it might be an act of charity to strike up a conversation with him. But that doesn’t mean everyone gets a warm and welcoming feeling when greeted by strangers after Mass (although I do).

Do you love your Christian brothers and sisters? Okay maybe love is asking too much. How about, do you have benevolent feelings for your brothers and sisters?

Under what circumstances? Do they have to look lonely or poor?

When you see a sister or brother praying next to you, do you ever say a quick prayer for them?

Do you ever smile at that guy you see Sunday after Sunday? Sure you don’t know each other and maybe you’re shy. Can you manage a smile when you see him in the vestibule or even a quick nod?

We’re a community of believers.

Now that’s not to say I always practice what I preach, but I can at least see where I can improve.

 

[TrueLight]

My husband and I attended Mass for two years pretty faithfully at the same parish, and when I was put on strict bed rest during my first pregnancy and missed for FOUR MONTHS, we got nary a phone call or anything. When we returned, no one welcomed us back or said anything about our absence. This was also after submitting our envelope with $25.00 every single week for two years!

It is sad, but that’s the way it is in large parishes. You’re either in the “cool kids clique” or you’re a nameless face. This is where the Mormons get it right (maybe one of the ONLY ways!), and why they are able to poach so many Catholics looking for true fellowship.

I’m sorry you went through that. If anything you should have been contacted to find out why your weekly $25 went missing.

Did you let the pastor know you were on bed rest?

Was there anyone at all who knew you in the church?

 

[odile53]

It’s kind of a NY thing, but happens everywhere else in the northeast. Are you a longterm resident of NY? The “neighborhood” parishes tend to be a little more friendly than the big churches.

Find one church you like, and stick with it, and one Mass at that church and stick with it. I’d also recommend trying to get to a weekday Mass. The whole point of this little exercise is to make yourself a fixture someplace, and then start warming up to some of the people you see there regularly. And check out some of the events on the archdiocese website, you may find either a ministry or even just a social group that appeals to you.

Instead of committing yourself to a parish organization, why not volunteer to work on a one-time event? You’ll get to know some people that way, without a long-term commitment to a specific organization.

And don’t forget to initiate a smile and a “hello.” If you wait for someone else in NY to do this (and I’m speaking as someone who spent thirty years in New York,) you may well be waiting till doomsday!

I do have to say this about my old city: While it has a reputation for coldness, there are lots of enclaves of warmth and community in New York, including in some New York parishes. You just have to dig to find them!