RANT!!!

[piusphilistine]

I can only speak for myself here but…
At our NO most (but not all) stand during the Agnus Dei.
I cannot do this in all good conscience. Regardless of the Bishop or the GIRM.
This prayer drives me to my knees:

The Bishop is the Teaching Magiserium of the Church. One of the pillars our faith is built upon.

I think a lot of people are driven to simulate the priestly orans posture and driven to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer.

At least in their defense they are not ignoring clear instructions from the Church…

 

[JRKH]

That presumes a well-formed conscience. Anyone who rejects the direction of God through His Church for some sort of private revelation as you are suggesting is simply not there yet.

So a brief exchange on a public forum board gives you this broad insight into my formation. Hmmmm.

I appreciate your intent but I am afraid that you do not know me that well.

James

 

[JRKH]

Kneeling is not more reverential than standing or sitting – particularly when God is instructing another posture.

my conscience tells me differently. God will deal with me as I deserve.

James

 

[Wolseley]

BlyssfulDreamer:

The lady at the bookstore said, “Why would you want to do that?” (Go to a TLM.)

I said that I wanted to go again and she said…“There was a reason for Vatican II”.

I probably would have looked right in the eye and said, “Yes, I know. When do they plan to institute it in America, do you think?”

 

[Edmac]

Vatican II has never been (name removed by moderator)lemented in America. It was
highjacked by fools and apostatesmany of them (take note)
bishops.

Is one obliged to obey a bishop who is openly disobedient to the
Magisterium?

In past times was one obliged to a bishop who was openly
Arian, Lutheran or Calvinist, and there were a number of them?

No.

Edmac

 

[Wolseley]

Precisely, Ed.

That’s why if the Holy See tells me to to one thing, and the bishop tells me another, the Holy See wins.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I hear you, Dempsey. I’m in the Archdiocese of LA- not even in the heart of it (where you can find maybe a semi-legit Latin Mass), but a suburb with absolutely no interest in Tradition. Once at my parish we were havinga discussion on who was the best Pope to date, and when I said “Pope Pius X” people looked at me like I grew another head.

Things are looking up though. We’ve got the best Pope we’ve had for a long, long time, and change (or unchange) is in the wind. My only prater is for Benedict to outlive Leo XIII!

SIGH

Why all the hating on the Archdiocese of LA? I know, off the top of my head, of several TLM’s you can go to this coming Sunday, in various parts of the Southland in LA County (one in Alhambra, every Sunday; one in Hawaiian Gardens, every Sunday; one starting in Wilmington/San Pedro this Sunday and every Sunday thereafter; and there’s the old schedule of indult masses still being offered). If you live in the Ventura area, there’s a TLM every Sunday at Mission San Buenaventura. Orange County also has two daily TLM’s; one in Yorba Linda and another in San Juan Capistrano. If you live in the Inland Empire, there’s a TLM in Ontario.

There are a LOT of opportunities for TLM’s in SoCal, even in the 'burbs.

My home parish in Atwater Village is VERY traditional (evening prayer, benediction and rosary before 7PM daily Mass followed by confessions, stations of the cross every Friday) and uses the NOM exclusively.

 

[piusphilistine]

my conscience tells me differently. God will deal with me as I deserve.

James

You what I find fascinating? One of the prime areas in which “liberal Catholics” are attacked by fundamentalist Catholics is their use of the exuse “I cannot go against my own conscience.”

Your comments suggest both extremes use the same excuse. More hypocracy.

 

[piusphilistine]

SIGH

Why all the hating on the Archdiocese of LA? I know, off the top of my head, of several TLM’s you can go to this coming Sunday, in various parts of the Southland in LA County (one in Alhambra, every Sunday; one in Hawaiian Gardens, every Sunday; one starting in Wilmington/San Pedro this Sunday and every Sunday thereafter; and there’s the old schedule of indult masses still being offered). If you live in the Ventura area, there’s a TLM every Sunday at Mission San Buenaventura. Orange County also has two daily TLM’s; one in Yorba Linda and another in San Juan Capistrano. If you live in the Inland Empire, there’s a TLM in Ontario.

There are a LOT of opportunities for TLM’s in SoCal, even in the 'burbs.

My home parish in Atwater Village is VERY traditional (evening prayer, benediction and rosary before 7PM daily Mass followed by confessions, stations of the cross every Friday) and uses the NOM exclusively.

Because Roger Cardinal Mahony makes the headlines and therefore becomes an object of hatred for the fundy Catholics.

With all of Mahony’s faults (he’s human too) hehas done a lot of good for the Church too – which I am sure is unknown by most fundies.

 

[piusphilistine]

Vatican II has never been (name removed by moderator)lemented in America. It was
highjacked by fools and apostatesmany of them (take note)
bishops.

Is one obliged to obey a bishop who is openly disobedient to the
Magisterium?

In past times was one obliged to a bishop who was openly Arian, Lutheran or Calvinist, and there were a number of them?

No.

Edmac

Oh yeah? Whom?

 

[JRKH]

You what I find fascinating? One of the prime areas in which “liberal Catholics” are attacked by fundamentalist Catholics is their use of the exuse “I cannot go against my own conscience.”

Your comments suggest both extremes use the same excuse. More hypocracy.

You are soooo right. That is why I try to avoid either extreme.
For you see I am neither “Liberal” or “Fundamentalist”. I am just plain Catholic. Born - Raised - Fallen away - Reverted.

We attend N.O. mass at during the week and the local TLM on Sunday. (If we can’t make it to the TLM we will attend the N.O.)
I believe in the validity of the Catholic Church because she has the history and tradition that traces back to apostolic times. I do tend to lean toward the conservative because I like history and consistancy of the older rites.

Having said that I don’t believe the Church is infallible in every way. History demonstrates this repeatedly. If the Church were perfect in every detail then we wouldn’t be having the controversies we are. We need to spend less time in labeling each other and more time trying to build bridges of love and understanding.

James

 

[stmaria]

The Bishop is the Teaching Magiserium of the Church. One of the pillars our faith is built upon.

I think a lot of people are driven to simulate the priestly orans posture and driven to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer.

At least in their defense they are not ignoring clear instructions from the Church…

This incident happenned last year. Many of the parishioners stood up to the Bishop and guess what?** they were right**. The Bishop ended up admitting that** he was wrong**. Bishops are not infallible.
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/1043056071.html?dids=1043056071:1043056071&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=May+28%2C+2006&author=David+Haldane&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&edition=&startpage=A.1&desc=A+Ban+on+Kneeling%3F+Some+Catholics+Won%27t+Stand+for+It

"**Kneeling “is clearly rebellion, grave disobedience and mortal sin,” **Father Martin Tran, pastor at St. Mary’s by the Sea, told his flock in a recent church bulletin. The Diocese of Orange backs Tran’s anti-kneeling edict.
Father Joe Fenton, spokesman for the Diocese of Orange, said the diocese supports Tran’s view that **disobeying the anti-kneeling edict is a mortal sin. **“That’s Father Tran’s interpretation, and he’s the pastor,” he said. “We stand behind Father Tran.”

ON BENDED KNEE: [Teri Carpentier] kneels during a service at St. Mary’s by the Sea in Huntington Beach. Kneeling, she says, is praying “with our bodies, not just our minds.”; DEFIANT: **About a third of the parishioners at a Huntington Beach church are disobeying an order not to kneel. **Kneeling, Father Martin Tran says, is a mortal sin and the diocese backs him"

 

[Pax_et_Caritas]

Father Martin Tran says, is a mortal sin and the diocese backs him"

This is probably the only time this wolf even uses the term mortal sin.

 

[pnewton]

ON BENDED KNEE: [Teri Carpentier] kneels during a service at St. Mary’s by the Sea in Huntington Beach. Kneeling, she says, is praying “with our bodies, not just our minds.”; DEFIANT: **About a third of the parishioners at a Huntington Beach church are disobeying an order not to kneel. **Kneeling, Father Martin Tran says, is a mortal sin and the diocese backs him"

It sounds like egos on both sides are in overdrive. A mortal sin???

 

[stmaria]

Kneeling is not more reverential than standing or sitting – particularly when God is instructing another posture.

You really believe that kneeling before God is NOT more reverent than sitting or standing?
In one of Cardinal Ratzinger’s books he wrote that God once compelled the devil to show himself to Abba Apollo,and what was most striking about his hideous and emaciated frame was that he had no knees. “The inability to kneel,” Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, "is seen as the very essence of the diabolical."

If a Bishop tells me to stand or sit during the consecration I will disobey. The Church has always taught the faithful to kneel, to do otherwise is a break from the Traditional teachings of the Church.

 

[piusphilistine]

It sounds like egos on both sides are in overdrive. A mortal sin???

So two wrongs make a right? Rather than acknowlege one dissents when they choose to follow their own egos instead of the clear instructions from the Church, you dig-up a quote that directs attention away from the matter at hand? Cute…

How come you didn’t include the quote from the same priest who explained he mispoke and apologized for his comments? I suppose that part wouldn’t be part of the fundamentalists’ library, huh?..

 

[stmaria]

So two wrongs make a right? Rather than acknowlege one dissents when they choose to follow their own egos instead of the clear instructions from the Church, you dig-up a quote that directs attention away from the matter at hand? Cute…

Following their own egos?? PLEEESE. The parishioners in this case were right. The Bishop was wrong.

 

[Titus1728]

I have noticed that the priests at my parish are getting alot smarter in terms of how they deal with people like me who ask about the TLM. Now, instead of looking at you like you are from Mars they smile, nod and say, “we’re discussing it with the Bishop.” Suuuuuure you are.

I keep asking about it and week after week I get the same answer, “We’re looking into it.”

The truth is they aren’t doing a thing to reach out to Traditionalist Catholics or implement the Motu Proprio in any way, shape or form.

Why? The answer is simple. They’re scared. They’re scared that if they offer a Latin Mass they will have to bring in a priest from the outside who knows how to say it. That means their captive constituency starts to shrink. When that happens they are in danger of losing their cushy jobs.

And, because most priests who know how to say the TLM are from orders like the FSSP or the SSPX they would not be answerable to the local Bishop. The last thing any politically savvy Bishop wants in his diocese are priests who don’t answer directly to him. Loss of control means loss of power.

So, week after week we faithful Catholics sit and suffer in the pew with what passes for the liturgy. Change, if it comes at all, will come slowly.

 

[stmaria]

I have noticed that the priests at my parish are getting alot smarter in terms of how they deal with people like me who ask about the TLM. Now, instead of looking at you like you are from Mars they smile, nod and say, “we’re discussing it with the Bishop.” Suuuuuure you are.

I keep asking about it and week after week I get the same answer, “We’re looking into it.”

The truth is they aren’t doing a thing to reach out to Traditionalist Catholics or implement the Motu Proprio in any way, shape or form.

Why? The answer is simple. They’re scared. They’re scared that if they offer a Latin Mass they will have to bring in a priest from the outside who knows how to say it. That means their captive constituency starts to shrink. When that happens they are in danger of losing their cushy jobs.

And, because most priests who know how to say the TLM are from orders like the FSSP or the SSPX they would not be answerable to the local Bishop. The last thing any politically savvy Bishop wants in his diocese are priests who don’t answer directly to him. Loss of control means loss of power.

So, week after week we faithful Catholics sit and suffer in the pew with what passes for the liturgy. Change, if it comes at all, will come slowly.

Totally agree with you. Plus they might actually have to make “homilies” that don’t put you to sleep. The sermons by the priests of the FSSP are amazing. You can actually learn what the Church has always taught and not this new age feel good dribble.

 

[piusphilistine]

Following their own egos?? PLEEESE. The parishioners in this case were right. The Bishop was wrong.

No they weren’t. While the priest was WRONG to suggest kneeling was a mortal sin, the Church’s instruction was to stand. And if one kneeled, they were not to be denied communion BUT counseled after Mass on the importance of following the Church and not one’s ego. Sadly they never repented of course as their egos would not allow it.

The whining and crying became so acute that the Church backed-off and allowed them to have their way. Change driven by dissent? Probably a great deal like employing female altar servers before the Church allowed the practice in order to force the Church’s hand.

The pride displayed by the fundamentalists on this posture issue was apalling and dismaying.