Rape and Abortion

[LordNecro]

If a man were to rape a woman and she were to become pregnant, I reckon most Catholics would still say that abortion is wrong. I’m undecided on the issue but when my non-Catholic mates say that they should be allowed to abort etc, I’m unable to effectively defend Church teaching on the matter.

I mean I know some of the points - that murder is worse than rape, and that abortion can ultimately be more traumatic than rape - but I don’t really think these are effective or convincing for atheists. Any help? You might be able to convince me while you’re at it too!

 

[EmeraldWings]

i replied to a similar topic not to long ago here -
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=260204

but i’ll also copy paste my post for you, and i will highlight the part i think you’ll benefit from the most…

"these pages might help -

catholicapologetics.info/…on/answers.htm

catholicapologetics.info/…tion/tough.htm

and as for rape and contraceptives, well first of all, it’s not easy getting threw to someone who doesn’t have any respect for life or if they don’t believe in souls,
if you’re talking with catholics, it’s a little bit easier…but still quite difficult, and alot of people no matter what you say just won’t listen, but that’s when your supposed to just let go and let God.

well talking about rape in general is a touchy subject, i rarely get threw to people about abortion being wrong with rape, but with people who are against abortion in any other situation, you can simply ask them, what makes the baby of a rape victim any less precious?
and why is it murder when you kill a baby who was willingly conceived, but not murder when you kill a baby who was conceived against it’s will?
when you kill the child inside of you that you received against your will, you don’t just kill the rapists child, you kill your own child,

some people would counter that with “well what if the rapist was a drug user or had serious physical or mental defects that could pass on to the child?”
well what if he wasn’t? would you be so willing to kill a healthy child, just to ensure you wouldn’t have an unhealthy one? and even if the child was unhealthy, is that a good enough reason to kill anyone? and would you not love the child anyways? could you honestly hate a child that did nothing wrong, who’s a victim just as much as you are, in as much as it didn’t have a choice?

ok well…as for contraceptives, they’re no different from any other means of preventing birth, they’re wrong because they do not leave open the conception of a child, and it’s essentially the same as a man “spilling his seed”,
but the problem is, you can’t get these kinda things threw to people who don’t believe that sex is only aloud if your open to the conception of a child, they just won’t understand, not that they refuse to, but sometimes they just honestly don’t get it,

remember that when you are confirmed, you receive the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit, which are-
wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.

and the 12 fruits of the Holy Spirit -
charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency, and chastity.

i’m pointing this out because i know it’s so frustrating sometimes to talk with people about things like abortion, and no matter what you say they just don’t understand at all, but a big reason for that may be that they just don’t have the ability to understand,
there is nothing good we have; catholics and non-catholics, that isn’t given to us by God, everything is from God and no one should give themselves credit for what comes to them naturally or even by means of hard work and prayer, it all comes from God,
so i just wanted to say that to maybe help you handle things with more patience and less stress…or maybe you already handle things that well, i dunno, but i’m sure someone can benefit from this e,e

ok well, those are some catholic standpoints, but for anything else, that first link i gave you is very good at defending yourself with the pro-choicers."

 

[puzzleannie]

If a man were to rape a woman and she were to become pregnant, I reckon most Catholics would still say that abortion is wrong. I’m undecided on the issue but when my non-Catholic mates say that they should be allowed to abort etc, I’m unable to effectively defend Church teaching on the matter.

I mean I know some of the points - that murder is worse than rape, and that abortion can ultimately be more traumatic than rape - but I don’t really think these are effective or convincing for atheists. Any help? You might be able to convince me while you’re at it too!

if you wish to defend the point of view that a rape victim should be allowed to abort you will have to come up with a reason why a second violent assault against the woman, not to mention the deliberate death of an innocent 3rd party, somehow modifies, heals, or corrects the first violent assault.

 

[kage_ar]

Killing a child and further tramautizing the mother is somehow going to help a woman who has been attacked? Makes no sense.

Women who have been raped need love and compassion and prayer and support, not more violence.

If it is the idea of killing the child because they are offspring of a rapist, let’s say that rapist has a 3 year old child - should that offspring of the rapist be allowed to live?

There is never a logical reason for abortion, never.

 

[seekerz]

Killing a child and further tramautizing the mother is somehow going to help a woman who has been attacked? Makes no sense.

Women who have been raped need love and compassion and prayer and support, not more violence.

If it is the idea of killing the child because they are offspring of a rapist, let’s say that rapist has a 3 year old child - should that offspring of the rapist be allowed to live?

There is never a logical reason for abortion, never.

Killing an innocent child because of it’s father’s despicable act is totally unjustified. Not even rapists receive a death sentence unless there are other crimes involved…so why the innocent child?

The crux of this argument is whether one believes life begins at conception, which is why I really don’t get the ‘abortion except in cases of rape’ crowd. If you believe there is an innocent child in the womb, even rape cannot justify deliberately killing it.

That said, carrying such a pregnancy would be traumatic to most women (I know of those who were readily able to differentiate between their attacker and the baby, and able to love and raise the latter).

Much support during and after pregnancy, the option of adoption and help getting justice meted out to the perpetrator should be topmost priorities. It should not just be the attitude of: “well the child’s life is more important than how you feel”. Most of us (thankfully) will never fully appreciate how a rape victim feels and the utmost empathy needs to be extended to her.

 

[twb1621]

I met many victims of rape and sexual assault after such an attack and would feel great sorrow and anger for what had been done to them not just physically but psychologically. Later in life I had an experience that allowed me to see the pain and sadness in the eyes of the aborted and that sorrow was so much deeper. In time and with help and guidance a victim can overcome their pain but there is no reversing the termination of the purist and most innocent of life.

 

[jmjconder]

This same question comes up in Jr/Sr High faith formation sessions ever year. I use this teaching tool to try to demonstrate the intrinsic value of each life.

Taking a $20 dollar bill and ask the youth how much it is worth…and the logical answer is given. I crumble it, stamp on it and each time I ask the same question and the youth give the obvious answer – still worth $20 dollars.

Then I begin to ask them how much it would be worth depending on where I get it? My purse, my husband’s wallet, found it, sold a personal possession, won a bet, stole it, sold something illegal…and on and on. No matter what I did with it (short of destroying it completely [another interesting point that ties in abortion]) can take away the value of $20 dollars nor the way I obtained the $20 dollars – it will retain its’ value.

It may seem like a simplistic explanation, however the example get people thinking. Using a $100 dollar bill is even more effective.

Sometimes faith centered answers are difficult with “non-Catholic mates” especially if they are struggling with the basics of the faith This topic is even hard for many that are beyond struggling with the basics.

Lastly, always pray to the Holy Spirit before beginning any discussion that involves defending the Catholic faith.

God Bless you for being courageous!

 

[puzzleannie]

If my father raped your daughter, would that give her (or you) the right to kill me, an innocent third party?

 

[jmjconder]

If my father raped your daughter, would that give her (or you) the right to kill me, an innocent third party?

I will keep this one for my Jr/Sr High sessions…puzzleannie ~ you are a wise one!

God Bless your intelligence…keep us thinking!

Grateful.

 

[strngrnrth]

I know two children conceived as a result of rape. They aren’t little films of the crimes playing over and over. They are kids. They bring joy and healing to their mothers and other people.
I like the lifeboat analogy. Suppose you grew up in a family that made canoes. You worked all your young years on a beautiful lifeboat, tied to buoys loaded with food, medical supplies, water stills and other needs. You always took it with you boating. One day you need it. You escape to the open sea, traumatized and grieving your family and friends on the boat but alive. Pirates attack you. They beat you, threaten your life, and take your jewelry and wallet. You float along. You hear a baby crying. It’s a year-old child apparently accidentally dropped on your boat by the pirates, who’d kidnapped him at some point.
You have some choices. You can adopt this child or look for rescue or both. If rescued, or marooned, you can adopt the child or look for someone to take him from you. You can report the crime or not (you should report it).
Is it acceptable to drown him?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

If a man were to rape a woman and she were to become pregnant, I reckon most Catholics would still say that abortion is wrong.

yes abortions is wrong always, all times, all places

I’m undecided on the issue but when my non-Catholic mates say that they should be allowed to abort

some would allow and encourage abortions for many reason as money being short, or a desire to upgrade the car, boat, etc.

etc, I’m unable to effectively defend Church teaching on the matter.

The church teaches the sanctity of life all human life. The church teaches not to judge who god puts on this earth which includes the rapist, baby, and the girl!

I mean I know some of the points - that murder is worse than rape, and that abortion can ultimately be more traumatic than rape - but I don’t really think these are effective or convincing for atheists. Any help?

atheists have no base to consider the rape an offense! Yet they have god’s law in their heart (known as Natural Moral Law) so their god given morals are showing

You might be able to convince me while you’re at it too!

hope that helps