Rape or not?

[pumpkinbeast]

This whole thread is beyond bizarre. Some rapists would be happy to oblige a woman a request like that, just so they won’t leave irrefutable DNA evidence behind.

You must not understand how easy it is for a man to overpower a women just by sheer force. They are physically stronger; even the most wimpy of them. Obviously, you’ve been brainwashed by all the stupid pop culture movies that show women beating men up but I guarantee you in real life in doesn’t work that way. I’d say a good 95% of men can overpower a woman anyday of the week.

To the OP: Rape for sure

To turtle: I agree. I have a blackbelt in karate, but no way would I be able to wrestle directly against an adult man. I’ve tried play-fighting with my bf, and he can hold me quite easily. We ever tried arm-wrestling once, and he asked me when I was going to start pushing, when I already was with all of my might. And he doesn’t even work out or anything. I have never pulled any of the tricks I would pull if a man was actually attacking me on my bf, obviously, because I don’t want to try to hurt him, in case I actually do. I’m pretty sure I could kick him faster than he could avoid it. What my teachers taught me about self-defense was that you have to use what you know to give yourself an opening, and then RUN. Don’t try to knock the guy down, you won’t be able to. Try to out-think them. For example, if someone grabs your wrists, they’re going to assume you’re going to try and pull away, and will have braced themselves for it. Try moving forwards, and thrusting your fists at their face. Another trick is that if they have you fairly immobilized, totally relax for a second, make them think they’re going to get what they want. Then renew your fight, bite them or something, all of a sudden, try to take them by surprise. Oh, and yell your head off. Make sure anyone who hears will know FOR SURE that you need help, and aren’t just playing around. Yell words like ‘help’ and ‘rape’.
This is all stuff I was told, I’ve never had to use it myself, thank God.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I fail to see the sarcasm, what I see is cruelty!

My sarcasm is toward the people who were condemning the woman for asking the rapist to use a condom, not the woman herself. Nor was I joking about rape.

I thought I was being clear by stating that I was being sarcastic.

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

My sarcasm is toward the people who were condemning the woman for asking the rapist to use a condom, not the woman herself. Nor was I joking about rape.

I thought I was being clear by stating that I was being sarcastic.

Jim

Apparently no one else picked up on the sarcasm. Perhaps you should be a little more careful in the future. You know, we tend to think of rape as an action against a woman. And generally speaking it is. However, there have been rapes involving men. I doubt very much if it were you, that sarcasm would be a welcome idea.

Kathy

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Apparently no one else picked up on the sarcasm. Perhaps you should be a little more careful in the future. You know, we tend to think of rape as an action against a woman. And generally speaking it is. However, there have been rapes involving men. I doubt very much if it were you, that sarcasm would be a welcome idea.

Kathy

You and two other people didn’t pick up on the sarcasm, despite my adding and stating it was sarcasm.

Perhaps you should take your time reading what is posted, and give the person the benefit of the doubt that they are not purposely trying to be cruel.

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

You and two other people didn’t pick up on the sarcasm, despite my adding and stating it was sarcasm.

Perhaps you should take your time reading what is posted, and give the person the benefit of the doubt that they are not purposely trying to be cruel.

Jim

You don’t get it do you? I can read. But your “sarcasm” is not well meaning nor appropriate when a crime such as rape is involved. I sure hope your poor wife/sister/mother/niece /neighbor would think your sarcasm was funny if it was them who was the victim.

Kathy

 

[Brendan]

However, you have notprovided any citations that define what the conjugal act is.

Because the defintion is in the name, itself; CON ( with, together) JUGAL (Joining)

A Conjugal act is an act that joins as a pair.

The Church has never used that term in Moral Theology to describe anything other than consensual sex. If you feel otherwise, I would like to hear your citations.

By the very narrow definitions you have here, you could also argue contraceptive devices can be used during the acts of adultery and fornication. Using contraception during those acts makes them all the more evil.

Huh?? adultery and fornication are both Conjugal acts. the Couple seek to join to together. The seek to do so sinfully, but they do so TOGETHER. (the ‘CON’ part of ‘CONJUGAL’)

That is not true, by defintion, in rape.

But if you want to claim that the Church supports the use of contraception during this particular type of (hyper-sinful and utterly evil) sexual encounter,

See, there is your problem. Rape is not sex. It is an assault on a person’s genitalia.

you must explain why it is permissible here while not permissible during fornication and adultery. AND you need citations.

See above. The ‘citation’ is ini the very definition of the word ‘conjugal’. (again, see above)

If you need any further clarifition on how the Church views the word ‘Conjugal’, I will refer you to

Modern Catholic Dictionary
Fr. John S. Hardon S.J.

review the various entries for Conjugal.

( FYI, Fr. Hardon was a professor of Systematic and Moral Theology at St. John’s University in New York. He passed away in 2001 and actually has a cause for sainthood open for him)

What you posted here is a good start, but it does not address the issue of rape in contrast with forms of illicit sex.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You don’t get it do you? I can read. But your “sarcasm” is not well meaning nor appropriate when a crime such as rape is involved. I sure hope your poor wife/sister/mother/niece /neighbor would think your sarcasm was funny if it was them who was the victim.

Kathy

Again, I wasn’t commenting on the rape itself, or joking about it, but rather, those who seem to be condemning the woman for asking her assailant to wear a condom and their assertion that she committed sin by doing so.

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

Again, I wasn’t commenting on the rape itself, or joking about it, but rather, those who seem to be condemning the woman for asking her assailant to wear a condom and their assertion that she committed sin by doing so.

Jim

And they are just as guilty as you for being insensitive.

Kathy

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And they are just as guilty as you for being insensitive.

Kathy

Gesh!

Why don’t you just put me on ignore. My guess is that you’re easily offended, and I don’t want to offend you, but apparently the only way to avoid that is for you to just ignore my post.

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

Gesh!

Why don’t you just put me on ignore. My guess is that you’re easily offended, and I don’t want to offend you, but apparently the only way to avoid that is for you to just ignore my post.

Jim

To the contrary…I am merely passionate. And when something riles me, such as your insensitivity and poor taste, I speak up. You want someone who cowers around you, afraid to speak up, look elsewhere. My guess is your particular brand of sarcasm doesn’t win you too many friends.
Kathy

 

[JimR-OCDS]

To the contrary…I am merely passionate. And when something riles me, such as your insensitivity and poor taste, I speak up. You want someone who cowers around you, afraid to speak up, look elsewhere. My guess is your particular brand of sarcasm doesn’t win you too many friends.
Kathy

But you misinterpreted my post and continue to mischaracterize me, even after my repeated explanation.

Go back and read my original post. I was defending the decision of the woman, in my sacasm against those who were judging her.

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

…However, if the woman doesnt get to confession to confess her sin of using artificial birth control(the condom), she will burn in hell for all eternity.

I’m being sarcastic, for those who may not notice.

Jim

Where pray tell is the defense of the woman??? All I see is you telling her to go to confession for her “sin” of using a condom. Tell the guy you hope he burns in hell for doing something so dispicable.

Kathy

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Where pray tell is the defense of the woman??? All I see is you telling her to go to confession for her “sin” of using a condom. Tell the guy you hope he burns in hell for doing something so dispicable.

Kathy

It was not me, but what others are suggesting in saying she committed sin by asking the rapist to use a condom.

I was criticizing the idea that she sinned. Thats what sarcasm is.

Is this clear now?

Jim

 

[Katie1723]

It was not me, but what others are suggesting in saying she committed sin by asking the rapist to use a condom.

I was criticizing the idea that she sinned. Thats what sarcasm is.

Is this clear now?

Jim

Poor choice of words on your part. Piece of advice, next time try defending the woman. Make your own statement and don’t follow others blindly.
Kathy

 

[rpp]

Because the defintion is in the name, itself; CON ( with, together) JUGAL (Joining)

A Conjugal act is an act that joins as a pair.

The Church has never used that term in Moral Theology to describe anything other than consensual sex. If you feel otherwise, I would like to hear your citations.

Huh?? adultery and fornication are both Conjugal acts. the Couple seek to join to together. The seek to do so sinfully, but they do so TOGETHER. (the ‘CON’ part of ‘CONJUGAL’)

That is not true, by defintion, in rape.

See, there is your problem. Rape is not sex. It is an assault on a person’s genitalia.

See above. The ‘citation’ is ini the very definition of the word ‘conjugal’. (again, see above)

If you need any further clarifition on how the Church views the word ‘Conjugal’, I will refer you to

Modern Catholic Dictionary
Fr. John S. Hardon S.J.

review the various entries for Conjugal.

( FYI, Fr. Hardon was a professor of Systematic and Moral Theology at St. John’s University in New York. He passed away in 2001 and actually has a cause for sainthood open for him)

First, let me start by saying that I have trmendous respect for Father John Hardon SJ. He is a great communicator and explains the Catholic faith exceptionally well. In fact it was one of his book, A Pocket Catechism, that helped me to gain an overview of the Catholic faith while I was in the RCIA. I will check out your source.

 

[rpp]

But you misinterpreted my post and continue to mischaracterize me, even after my repeated explanation.

Go back and read my original post. I was defending the decision of the woman, in my sacasm against those who were judging her.

Jim

We have read your post and that is what offended so many people. As I said in my response, some things should not be joked about. Your defense of your blatatly offensive post only demonstrates your insensitivity to this violent act. You clearly have little empathy for someone who is held down and has something forced into one or more bodily orifices.

Some jokes are inherently offensive. It does not matter if it was intended to be a joke. Has it occurred to you that some of the people reading this may have been victims of rape? Making such a comment on a public forum is quite inappropriate. Rather than defend it claiming that we are “too sensitive”, perhaps you should consider it is not us who are too sensitive. The fact that several people felt compelled to made negative comments regarding your post should tell you something.

 

[rpp]

But you misinterpreted my post and continue to mischaracterize me, even after my repeated explanation.

Go back and read my original post. I was defending the decision of the woman, in my sacasm against those who were judging her.

Jim

Okay.

This is rape, no two ways about it.

However, if the woman doesnt get to confession to confess her sin of using artificial birth control(the condom), she will burn in hell for all eternity.

I’m being sarcastic, for those who may not notice.

Jim

We have read your post and that is what offended so many people. As I said in my response, some things should not be joked about. Your defense of your blatatly offensive post only demonstrates your insensitivity to this violent act. You clearly have little empathy for someone who is held down and has something forced into one or more bodily orifices.

Joking about condemning someone to Hell because they are a victim of a sick, violent and unspeakable crime is indefensible.

Some jokes are inherently offensive. It does not matter if it was intended to be a joke. Has it occurred to you that some of the people reading this may have been victims of rape? Making such a comment on a public forum is quite inappropriate. Rather than defend it claiming that we are “too sensitive”, perhaps you should consider it is not us who are too sensitive. The fact that several people felt compelled to made negative comments regarding your post should tell you something.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Okay.

We have read your post and that is what offended so many people. As I said in my response, some things should not be joked about. Your defense of your blatatly offensive post only demonstrates your insensitivity to this violent act. You clearly have little empathy for someone who is held down and has something forced into one or more bodily orifices.

Joking about condemning someone to Hell because they are a victim of a sick, violent and unspeakable crime is indefensible.

Some jokes are inherently offensive. It does not matter if it was intended to be a joke. Has it occurred to you that some of the people reading this may have been victims of rape? Making such a comment on a public forum is quite inappropriate. Rather than defend it claiming that we are “too sensitive”, perhaps you should consider it is not us who are too sensitive. The fact that several people felt compelled to made negative comments regarding your post should tell you something.

Again, you misunderstand, what I wrote.

I was not joking about rape. I wasn’t joking about anyone. I was not condeming anyone to hell.

I was being sarcastic toward those who insist that the the woman committed sin, because she asked her assailant to use a condom.

That being said.

I apologize for any who took offense.

Jim

 

[estesbob]

Again, you misunderstand, what I wrote.

I was not joking about rape. I wasn’t joking about anyone. I was not condeming anyone to hell.

I was being sarcastic toward those who insist that the the woman committed sin, because she asked her assailant to use a condom.

That being said.

I apologize for any who took offense.

Jim

Its nice to see I am not the only one who’s jokes ocassionaly fall flat. I took no offense at your post and in fact it does raise an interesting theological quesion-does the Church condone the use of condoms in cases of rape?

 

[rpp]

Again, you misunderstand, what I wrote.

I was not joking about rape. I wasn’t joking about anyone. I was not condeming anyone to hell.

I was being sarcastic toward those who insist that the the woman committed sin, because she asked her assailant to use a condom.

That being said.

I apologize for any who took offense.

Jim

Okay. Thank you for being gracious. It is this humble graciousness that we will remember, not what lead to it.

We all make comments that can be misinterpreted. Myself in particular. I would like to think I too will have the humility you demonstrated here the next time I put my foot in my mouth.