Raping non-muslim... Legal in Islam?

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oh…Abu Sayyaf…grrrgrrrr

Our soldiers are on the way to crush them…but i dont know when will it be finished considering that they are part of the Al Qaeda netwrok of Bin Laden…
 
janryboy said:
oh…Abu Sayyaf…grrrgrrrr

Our soldiers are on the way to crush them…but i dont know when will it be finished considering that they are part of the Al Qaeda netwrok of Bin Laden…
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Yeah… I hate those terrorists. One reason I don’t trust their claims about their faith is because they harm even their fellow muslims. What a bunch of ****!
 
meedo, is it not true that Muhammed gave permission to violate the losers women after a battle?

pro, oh poor Muslims hurt feelings. How sad. It might interfere with crucifying Christian children. Btw, you can buy the Protocols in any Arab country. They consider it gospel truth.
 
Dale_M said:
The Bible says the same thing.

Normally people who commit adultery are to be executed (Leviticus 20:10), but if a man takes a female slave in this manner, all he has to do is offer up a ram as sacrifice and he is forgiven.(Leviticus 19:20-22)

Of course, that leaves open the question as to how slaves are to be acquired. I suppose the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda could be expected to offer up justification for enslaving others.
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Ahem!

You taking verses from the OT?

Why not try the NT, you know… the NEEEW Testament.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
Leviticus does not prove Islam does not condone the rape of female non-Muslim slaves. It has nothing to do with Islam. The logical fallacy of tu quoque is not a good way to argue.
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Ah, but the point is that the text supports something that today we would consider evil and inhuman. Quoting a text from 1400 years ago and expecting it to be applied literally today is simply an unwarranted expectation.

Granted we are talking about how a terrorist group/insurrection (Abu Sayyaf) interprets the Quran. But terrorist groups really shouldn’t be compared to how normal people view religion and the world. I am sure that the Lord’s Resistance Army uses Scripture to justify having children kill their parents, but its not an interpretation that most Christians would support.
 
cathgal said:
Ahem!

You taking verses from the OT?

Why not try the NT, you know… the NEEEW Testament.
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I fully agree that the New Testament takes priority over the OT, but I could point to lots of Christians who adhere to the principle of "An eye for an eye’, even though Jesus told us that it was wrong.
 
Dale_M said:
I fully agree that the New Testament takes priority over the OT, but I could point to lots of Christians who adhere to the principle of "An eye for an eye’, even though Jesus told us that it was wrong.
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Of course. But we don’t judge the faith by actions of people, only by what’s taught by the faith.
 
meedo said:
Islam doesnt allow rape. Plain and simple.

salam
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Okay, according to Islam’s definition of rape, Islam doesn’t allow rape. But…does Islam allow for the capture of women, who’s marriages are then null by virtue of the capture, the enslavement of those women, and then sexual relations between the captor/owner and those female slaves, even if that slave expresses the desire to
NOT have sexual relations with her owner/captor?
 
Dale_M said:
Ah, but the point is that the text supports something that today we would consider evil and inhuman. Quoting a text from 1400 years ago and expecting it to be applied literally today is simply an unwarranted expectation.

Granted we are talking about how a terrorist group/insurrection (Abu Sayyaf) interprets the Quran. But terrorist groups really shouldn’t be compared to how normal people view religion and the world. I am sure that the Lord’s Resistance Army uses Scripture to justify having children kill their parents, but its not an interpretation that most Christians would support.
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Of course you know that slavery was legal in Saudi Arabia until 1967 - is that recent enough for you? It is not ‘just’ a terrorist group that carries that view - the fact that Muslims no longer (by and large) take slaves does not make Islam true - the Quran is VERY explicit about the right of a Muslim to take slaves - Muslim who turn a blind eye to such verses are nothing short of hypocrites.

The words may be 1400 years ago - following your ‘reasoning’ why don’t we just scrap everything in the Quran since it is out-dated anyway or nothing novel compared to older religions.

Besides, what you argued is still tu quoque.
 
To correct a misconception:

Only in Pakistan and Nigeria do Muslimahs who are raped get stoned, if they get pregnant or report the rape to the authorities and are unable to produce 4 male witnesses to the crime.

In all other Muslim countries a Muslimah does not get stoned for being raped - however if she does not report the rape and she gets pregnant she isn’t likely to be believed that she was raped and therefore could get stoned anyway (in the less moderate countries).

However, in sharia law a non-Muslim cannot testify in a sharia court for crimes involving Muslims - which means that a non-Muslim woman who gets raped has no recourse to justice.
 
Meedo,

I, for one, don’t blame you for feeling rather attacked. I see an awful lot of generalizing about ‘most’ muslims or just everybody of the Islamic faith lumped together through generic use of the words ‘muslims.’

I’m disapponted in that a few of my compatriots seem to fail to recognize that muslims are humans and, in christian teaching, made in the image and likeness of God. Ascribing an evil nature to all of you flies in the face of a basic tenet of christianity.

That said, it IS a legitimate path of inquiry to wonder if there are inherently injust principles built into the Islamic faith. But it is not necessary to ascribe nefarious motives to all muslims in order to question the validity of Muhammed’s claims. Entirely sincere people of genuine goodwill and charity in accordance with the grace they have been given can and are deceived by false teachings and lies all the time. I would hope that christians learn to do a better job at critiquing the content of other religions without impugning all its people.

Similarly, it would help you and us if you can have skin thick enough to ignore unjust stereotyping and simply address the legitimate questions about the teachings of Islam that might lie beneath the hostility.
 
cestusdei said:
Dale, by Jesus’ time Jews did not stone adulterers. When Muhammed asked a Jewish Rabbi about it the Rabbi tried to cover the verse. He knew the kind of man he was dealing with and didn’t want to give him the excuse. Jews simply did not do that anymore. Christians followed them in that.
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Perhaps slightly off topic, but how does your statement make sense in the light of John 8:3-11?

Peace

Tim
 
ssejllenrad said:
I’ve herd in the news that the Abu Sayyaf (A radical muslim group here in the Philippines) said that they have the right to rape and kill their non-muslim hostages because the Quran says so… Is this really in the Quran? It’s hard to believe since they are extremists who said so…
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Rape is not legal in Islam in no way. It is a crime that can be punishable by death.
 
thistle said:
Looks like Meedo is lost for words and has gone into hiding.
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I wouldn’t blame Meedo at all if he or she never returned to this site. Of course, raping non-Muslims is not justified! What’s the next wild accusation? That Muslims cook and eat babies?

For a Christian site, this place is strangely lacking in charity. Perhaps if we are going to ask a question about Islam we should consider how we would react if the same question was asked about Christianity. Remember that Muslims here are guests. We should make them feel welcome and not feel if they are being baited by a hostile group of strangers. This isn’t the forum to be trying to score points against an opponent.
 
When I see hundreds of thousands of Muslims riot against terrorism and rape with the same verve they protest cartoons then I will feel more moderate towards Muslims. In Pakistan and Egypt Christian women are raped and given the choice of dishonor or marrying their rapist. What a choice! I want Muslims to get their act together and deal with their problems, not just sweep them under the rug or deny they exist.

Orogeny, that is a good question. Jesus was really putting them on the spot. They knew this. It wasn’t just that they knew they were sinners. They knew that he was questioning their interpretation and forcing them to look at the Torah in a new way. I can’t preach the whole homily here, but it does add some interesting dimensions.
 
I know Islam is unpalatable. The truth about Islam is almost always unpalatable. But what do you expect me to do? Lie to you and tell you Islam is a great religion?

I expect you don’t know that ‘rape’ is a common method of proselytizing in places like Pakistan. Christian girls are kidnapped and raped and thereby forced to marry their rapists and convert to Islam. Their parents are heartbroken when that happens but guess what? Nothing happens to the Muslims who do this - because it’s all in accordance with sharia law.

This is happening TODAY - not in the distant past. The fact that most Muslim countries don’t condone rape of non-Muslim is not because they are acting in accordance with the Quran, but are really acting against it. The Quran permits Muslims to take non-Muslim female slaves (captives or purchased) and allows Muslims to have sex with these female slaves. This came straight from Muhammad who did the same thing - with Rayhanna and Safiya and Mariyah the Copt.

There is no justice in the world, and let us not pretend that there is. Muslims always behave very badly towards adherents of other religions when they (Muslims) are in the majority.

And before any Muslim brings up Leviticus and Deuteronomy again, may I please ask them to bring a quote from Jesus telling us it is okay for Christians (not Jews) to rape female slaves.
 
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