Rapture: Claimed proof in ECF's?

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ESMDHokie77

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Hey CAF,

I just heard someone claim ECF belief in the Rapture? Specifically: Hippolytus and Irenaeus.

The commenter said:
Hmm, I don’t really want to get involved in a religious discussion on FB, but I also can’t let historical innacuracies go uncorrected. The concept of predicting the return of Christ is not an idea that got “thought of in the 19th century”—the concept of a sextamillennial span of human history followed by a 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth for a total of 7000 years of human history, otherwise known as the year-day tradition, was very widely held among the earliest Christian communities and some of the most influential Church fathers including for instance Irenaeus of Lyon and Hippolytus of Rome. In the earliest centuries of the Church many Christian communties and thinkers thought the rapture was imminent and would happen by the end of the millenium at the latest (ie, 1000AD), and so quite honestly this May 21st group, seen as wacko by today’s standards, is far more congruent with the tribulation teachings of the early Christian communities than any manistream church existing today…
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Thoughts???

Peace,
Phil
 
Hi Phil,

The rapture is anti biblical. Every Christian in ancient history believed that Jesus was coming back on the last day.
The rapture theory started when Increase Mather in 1680 mistranslated 1 Thes. 4:17.
From then on it just snowballed in Protestantism. Catholics do not believe in the rapture.
We do not believe in a literal 10000 year reign. We believe that Jesus is reigning now and will do so tile the last day at which time we will all be raised some to everlasting life and some to everlasting damnation.

I would ask that person to give you exact quotes that the ECF believed in the rapture. They certainly believed that Jesus would come again in his glorious body for us all and not just a few. The belief that some people will just be swept away is ridiculous.

Michael Voris on RealCatholic.TV has an excellent explanation of this in Apologetics.
My thoughts
Phyllo
 
I don’t know about the “Rapture” but Justin Martyr did believe in pre-millennialism and a 1000 year reign by Jesus on earth.
But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.
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Dialogue with Trypho
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.iv.lxxx.html

Earlier in the same chapter he does indicate that there were good Christians who did believe this.
 
When Jesus returns His followers will meet Him in the air. Then we return with Him to Earth (parousia). This is what the ECFs - and the Bible - are talking about. The Rapture as taught by many Evangelicals and Fundamentalists says that we will meet Jesus in the air and then be taken to Heaven. In addition, most Rapturists believe that we will be taken to Heaven to avoid the Tribulation. That idea was invented in the 19th century and is totally false. The Rapturists are looking for support for their views in the ECFs see the similarity of believers being caught up in the air while they overlook what happens next.
 
the gentleman who I had this conversation with went on to post:
It is for this reason that I think legitimate criticisms can be raised against this group’s beliefs because their teachings reflect one of the core beliefs of the original Christians, and it is from these people that the entire religion derives.
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Now, I’ve never really thought that eschatology is a core belief of Christianity, nor of the Early Church. Though I do know that throughout history people have been expecting the end times. I get the feeling this guy is an atheist or agnostic based on his disconnected language that he has used in other parts of the conversation not related to this topic.

Phyllo, I was looking for that Voris video, could you help me out?
 
ESMDHokie77 said:
the gentleman who I had this conversation with went on to post:

Now, I’ve never really thought that eschatology is a core belief of Christianity, nor of the Early Church. Though I do know that throughout history people have been expecting the end times. I get the feeling this guy is an atheist or agnostic based on his disconnected language that he has used in other parts of the conversation not related to this topic.

Phyllo, I was looking for that Voris video, could you help me out?
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Given the amount of Scripture which deals with it, how could it not be a core belief? (I’m not asking you. I realize you were quoting someone else.)
 
No that was me, I’ve just not put much thought into the end of the world. and I’m tired of hearing lots of people talking about it.

Starting to just ignore it all than speaking up and saying the Catholic view.
 
SyCarl said:
I don’t know about the “Rapture” but Justin Martyr did believe in pre-millennialism and a 1000 year reign by Jesus on earth.

Dialogue with Trypho
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.viii.iv.lxxx.html

Earlier in the same chapter he does indicate that there were good Christians who did believe this.
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Correct. Let’s be careful not to confuse premillennialism with the pre-tribulation rapture. You can’t have the latter without the former but that doesn’t mean that they are the same thing or that one follows the other. What pre-trib rapturists do is claim that Justin Marytr et al held to the pre-trib rapture when in fact they held to only premillennialism. The pre-trib rapture was entirely unheard of until the 19th century.
 
Barnabas (40-100) knew John and all 12 of Jesus disciples, and
traveled with Saint Paul to evangelize among the gentiles, wrote:
“The final stumbling block approaches…for the whole [past] time
of your faith will profit you nothing, unless now in this wicked
time we also withstand coming sources of danger…then the evil
one [Antichrist] may find no means of entrance…”
(Epistle of Barnabas, 4).

Polycarp (70-168) Johns apostle and knew Barnabas, wrote:
“He comes as the judge of the living and the dead.”
(Epistle to the Philippians, II).

Justin Myrtyr (100-167) a contemporary of Polycarp, wrote:
“The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things
against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the
earth against us the Christians…” (Dialogue with Trypho, 110):

Irenaeus (138-202) Polycarps apostle and knew Justin Myrtyr,
wrote: “And they [the ten kings who will arise] shall lay Babylon
waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the
beast, and put the church to flight” (Against Heresies, V,26).

Tertullian (150-220) a contemporary of Irenaeus, wrote:
“The souls of the martyrs are taught to wait [Rev.6:9,10,11]
…that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage
war on the Church of God…”
(On the Resurrection of the flesh, 25).

Hyppolytus (158-240) a contemporary of Tertullian, wrote:
“The one thousand two hundred and three score days (the last
half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and
persecute the church…” (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61).

Cyprian (200-258) a contemporary of Hyppolytus, wrote:
“The day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the
end of the world and the time of the Antichrist to draw near, so
that we must all stand prepared for the battle…” (Epistle, 55, 1).

Victorinus (240-303) a contemporary of Cyprian, wrote:
“…the times of Antichrist, when all shall be injured.”
(Commentary on the Appocalypse of the Blessed John, VI, 5).

Lactantius (242-330) a contemporary of Victorinus, wrote:
“And power will be given him [Antichrist] to desolate the whole
earth for forty two months…” (Divine Institutes, VII, 17).

Athanasius (293-373) a contemporary of Lactantius, wrote:
“…they have not spared Thy servants, but are preparing the
way for Antichrist.” (History of the Arians, VIII, 79).

Ephrain the Syrian (306-373) a contemporary of Athanasius,
wrote: “Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our
enemy, Antichrist, appear…” (Sermo Asceticus, I).

Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386) a contemporary of Ephrain, wrote:
“The church declares to you the things concerning Antichrist
before they arrive…it is well that, knowing these things, thou
shouldest make thyself ready beforehand.”
(Catechetical Lectures, 15, 9).

Jerome (340-422) a contemporary of Cyril of Jerusalem, wrote:
“I told you that Christ would not come unless Antichrist had
come before.” (Epistle 21).

Chrysostom (345-407) a contemporary of Jerome, wrote:
“…the time of Antichrist…will be a sign of the coming of Christ…”
(Homilies on II Thessalonians 2:2-3)

Augustine (354-430) a contemporary of Chrysostom, wrote:
“But he who reads this passage [Daniel 12:1-13], even half asleep
can not fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, for
a short time, assail the church…” (The City of God, XX, 23).

Venerable Bede (673-735) wrote:
“The Church’s triumph will follow the reign of Antichrist.”
(The Explanation of the Apocalypse, II, 8).

Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153) wrote: “There remains only
one thing–that the demon of noonday [Antichrist] should appear,
to seduce those who still remain in Christ…”
(Sermons on the Song of Songs, 33, 16).

earlychurchbelief.blogspot.com/

The Shepherd of Hermas.

You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast. Go, therefore, and tell the elect of the Lord His mighty deeds, and say to them that this beast is a type of the great tribulation that is coming. If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart, and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly.

biblicaleschatology.org/2009/03/13/did-the-early-church-fathers-teach-a-rapture-or-a-particular-position-of-it/

essentialchristianity.com/pages.asp?pageid=21918
 
The rapture, in the “Left Behind” sense that the elect will be taken up before the tribulation, is unbiblical and actually contradicts scripture:
But in those days, ***after ***that tribulation,…He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Mark 13:24-27
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A few comments before my reply, a poster using the screen name “Big Dummy” lists pseudo support for the opposite, unbiblical idea (that the elect will be taken up before the tribulation) with quotes such as:

Polycarp (70-168) Johns apostle and knew Barnabas, wrote:
“He comes as the judge of the living and the dead.”
(Epistle to the Philippians, II).

No Christian doubts what is said in this quote; even Muslims believe Christ will be the judge on the last day. Opponents of the man-made “rapture” doctrine do not reject Christ’s role as judge, they reject the claim that the elect will be taken up *before *the tribulation. Big Dummy’s quotes echo general Christian beliefs, having nothing to do with the specific belief of being “taken up” *before *the tribulation a.k.a. “the rapture.”

This trick has been around since Christianity began: smuggle non-Christian beliefs, whether gnostic dualism, the “rapture,” or anything else you want to pass off as “authentic Christianity” by presenting them in a pseudo-Christian context. Christians presented with claims couched in beliefs they’re familiar with are less likely to realize those claims are not Biblical at all, and indeed contradict the word of God passed down through apostolic tradition and scripture.

The Bible talks about end times and tribulation, but nowhere does it support the 19th century scipturally bankrupt novelty that the elect will be taken up *before *the tribulation. Rather, the Bible speaks of people being taken up after the tribulation. None of Big Dummy’s quotes actually express the backwards belief of pre-tribulation rapture either, the quotes listed don’t mention being taken-up or whether it will happen pre- or post tribulation, so why fill up space with numerous quotes that do not refer to the question at hand?

Baptist theologian Dale Moody touches on this tactic of using quotes as support that don’t actually support the claim, "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject. " (The Word of Truth, 556–7).
catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

It seems an attempt at persuasion by quantity rather than quality; list numerous quotes regardless of their pertinence and hope that the sheer number will give the illusion of support. There is absolutely zero support for pre-tribulation “taking up” or “rapture” in any of those quotes. And while multiplying quotes may give a superficial sense of support for the “rapture,” when the quotes multiplied contain zero support for the “rapture,” multiplying zero by 10, 20, or even 100 quotes still leaves you with absolutely zero support for a doctrine which cropped up in the 19th century known as “the rapture.”
 
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