Rapture theory

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An evangelical friend of mine posted a dramatic youtube video showing people disappearing from an auditorium during a preacher’s talk on the rapture. I sent her a youtube video of Tim Staples explanation of the error in this belief. She then sent me a book called 'The Rapture Question Answered: by Robert Van Kampen.
She never commented to me on the Tim Staples video. She says she just wants all her friends and family get to heaven. I wrote her back and thanked her for the book and told her I’d made a return to the Catholic faith and added also that we are all members of the body of Christ and even if some of us are “left behind” it doesn’t necessarily mean we’re “left out”, my thoughts on the understanding of the rapture. Can you give me a short explanation of the Catholic understanding of the second coming and the error of the protestants’s understanding of the rapture?
Even though I read a Catholic book on this subject, I don’t remember what it said and don’t have the book anymore.
Sincerely,
Debbie
 
Hello debgab:

This is from Catholic Answer Library:

Here is the link to the entire article: catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been “amillennial” (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word “rapture” to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term “rapture” is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—“we will be caught up,” [Latin: *rapiemur]).

Spinning Wheels?

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, “But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace” (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

God Bless,

HC
 
<<The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called “millenarianism” (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism “cannot safely be taught,” though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue>>

That is not true.

The Church has indeed dogmatically rejected the idea of a literal millennium.

This is PRECISELY why the words “whose kingdom shall have no end” were inserted into the Creed by the Second Ecumenical Concil, meeting at Constantinople. It was a conciliar rejection of chiliasm (millenianism).
 
debgab said:
An evangelical friend of mine posted a dramatic youtube video showing people disappearing from an auditorium during a preacher’s talk on the rapture. I sent her a youtube video of Tim Staples explanation of the error in this belief. She then sent me a book called 'The Rapture Question Answered: by Robert Van Kampen.
She never commented to me on the Tim Staples video. She says she just wants all her friends and family get to heaven. I wrote her back and thanked her for the book and told her I’d made a return to the Catholic faith and added also that we are all members of the body of Christ and even if some of us are “left behind” it doesn’t necessarily mean we’re “left out”, my thoughts on the understanding of the rapture. Can you give me a short explanation of the Catholic understanding of the second coming and the error of the protestants’s understanding of the rapture?
Even though I read a Catholic book on this subject, I don’t remember what it said and don’t have the book anymore.
Sincerely,
Debbie
Click to expand...
Appendix 1: What the Catholic Church Teaches about the End-Times
The Catholic Church does not have an official “guide to the Bible” which tells you what everything in there means. She doesn’t have an official guide to any book. What she does have is a long-standing tradition of passing down the teachings of the Apostles, and they taught a whole lot of things—more than I can delve into in this appendix. In the past few decades, though, the Church has published a book, “The Catechism of the Catholic Church”—a kind of “Book of Catholic Teachings”—which sets forth in order almost everything that the Catholic Church holds to be true.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (the CCC) is written in numbered paragraphs, to make it easy for citation, so that anybody can say (for example)—the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is God in CCC 469, which means that the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph four-hundred sixty-nine, states in some way that Jesus is God. And it does, it says, “The Church thus confesses that Jesus is inseparably true God and true man.” See how that works?
Okay. It has three sections about the End-times. Paragraphs 668-682 talk about the Second Coming, paragraphs 731-747 talk about the Church in the Last Days, and paragraphs 1038-1065 talk about Judgment Day. Here is what the Catholic Church definitely teaches, presented as closely as possible to a sequential countdown of End-time events:

· When Jesus died on the cross, He defeated the powers of the devil. (CCC 2853)
· When Jesus rose to heaven, He inaugurated the End-times in which we now live. (CCC 670)
· The Church should expect the imminent completion of the End-times (see CCC 732) at every moment. (CCC 673)
· Jesus left the Church as the foundation of His messianic Kingdom. (CCC 541)
· Judgment Day has been delayed so that more Gentiles and (especially) Jews may be converted. (CCC 674)
· The Church always endures various ‘smaller’ tribulations, (CCC 769) and these will be fulfilled in a Great Tribulation as we approach Judgment Day. (CCC 675-676)
· The Great Tribulation “ushers in the struggles of the last days.” (CCC 672)
· During the Great Tribulation, many believers will deny the Faith rather than endure persecution, (CCC 675) and many remaining believers will be martyred. (CCC 677)
· The Great Tribulation will include a full-fledged Antichrist movement (CCC 675)—incomplete versions of this movement have appeared throughout Christian history. (CCC 676)
· The Second Coming of Jesus will deliver Christians from the Evil One (CCC 2853) and announce the end of the Great Tribulation, (CCC 673) the coming of the New Jerusalem, (CCC 677) the completion of the enduring, messianic Kingdom of God, (CCC 671) the gathering of all believers to Christ, (CCC 2853-2854) including the resurrection of the dead followed by Judgment Day. (CCC 1038 with CCC 677)
· Judgment Day will also be the last day of this world’s current existence. (CCC 678)

That is what the Catholic Church definitely teaches about the End-times. It basically mirrors post-tribulationalism, which is the teaching that Christianity will have to undergo the Great Tribulation and won’t be raptured out of the world—at least, not until the Second Coming. Then again, the idea that, at His Second Coming, all believers will be gathered to Christ (CCC 2853-2854) has much in common with the idea of a Rapture. Many Catholic theologians are starting to use that very term to describe that event, so make of that what you will.

God bless!
-Dmar198
 
debgab said:
An evangelical friend of mine posted a dramatic youtube video showing people disappearing from an auditorium during a preacher’s talk on the rapture. I sent her a youtube video of Tim Staples explanation of the error in this belief. She then sent me a book called 'The Rapture Question Answered: by Robert Van Kampen.
She never commented to me on the Tim Staples video. She says she just wants all her friends and family get to heaven. I wrote her back and thanked her for the book and told her I’d made a return to the Catholic faith and added also that we are all members of the body of Christ and even if some of us are “left behind” it doesn’t necessarily mean we’re “left out”, my thoughts on the understanding of the rapture. Can you give me a short explanation of the Catholic understanding of the second coming and the error of the protestants’s understanding of the rapture?
Even though I read a Catholic book on this subject, I don’t remember what it said and don’t have the book anymore.
Sincerely,
Debbie
Click to expand...
If I remember from my Pentacostal days, most evangelicals believe that those “taken up” are the holy and rightous, and won’t have to endure the end of the world as we know it.(The 7 seals in Rev)

If her video is showing people being taken up while a preacher is preaching, and he is still there, that’s not such a good thing if you know what I mean.

Could you post a link to the video? I would really love to see it.
 
There are two forms of judgement accepted in the Catechism:

1.) Particular Judgment:

Insomuch as the Catechism teaches us that we are judged immediately following our deaths, we do not have the “wiggle room” to believe that we (the elect) are all called up to Christ at the same time. If that were true, this would be evidence of ‘soul sleep’ and a position for protestants to argue against the intervention of the Saints for us. This would be considered heresy.

2.)

And because we as catholics believe that all the living and the dead are judged at the same time (Nicene Creed), we do not have the wiggle room to believe that the elect and the non-elect are separated for some period of time before the non-elect are cast into hell. the “general judgment” calls for the whole of the world to be judged together. Where fathers shall pay for the sins of their sons, so to speak.

So, with that said, the amilliniest position is the best platform the be on. It basically leaves all this up to God and His judgment.

Blessings,

HC
 
debgab said:
I’ve pasted the link below to the youtube video showing the rapture happening in an auditorium where a preacher is preaching.

youtube.com/watch?v=SmLhyPjHVes
Click to expand...
Thank you. It is funny, but that is the video I found when I did a search on youtube.com

The verse quoted at the end (Matt 24:27), is correct, but in no way indicates that the holy/rightous will be taken away.

If you read further in that same chapter of Matthew, I believe it is referring to the Final Judgement of humanity, and Jesus is separating the Wheat from the chaff. But all will endure the last days.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Your welcome Twopekinguys. And thanks to everyone for their help. Feel free to correct me if my thinking on this is wrong, but I don’t understand why my friend and others who subscribe to this version of the rapture, believe they won’t have to endure any of the suffering that will come with the tribulation, it seems a bit of naivete and arrogance to assume that they are going to be raptured with Christ to heaven. I know she’s genuinely worried some of her family and friends won’t be with her, but I guess it’s just how she understands things.
Really, how could anyone go to heaven with Jesus automatically, doesn’t the bible say none shall enter unless they are without spot or blemish or something to that effect? The only two I understand that have been taken immediately to heaven are Elijah and Mary correct?
Debbie
 
There is nothing more anti-Biblical than the notion of the Rapture.
The notion of the Rapture is false because it almost relieves your fears. It says you are going to get to escape. That there will be no suffering, no Trial or Tribulation for Christians, and good Christians, and that’s just preposterous.
Jesus Christ died on the cross and was crucified, beaten, and all the suffering He went through, and you believe Jesus Christ is your savior, and yet you somehow believe you get to escape the suffering and the pain?
Jesus said exactly the opposite. This is why it is anti-Biblical.
This whole notion of the Rapture of getting pulled out, caught up in the earth and snatched away is also extremely dangerous because it is tied to a large body of theology which is decidedly anti-Catholic.
The problem with the supporters of the Theology of the Rapture is that they only recognize as Jesus’s teachings in the Word. In the Scriptures, people go out of their way to twist things up to such a degree and ignore, just totally ignore other sections of Scripture to come up with the notion of the Rapture.
Don’t believe it.
 
I think this is a very dangerous and Satanic doctrine, I say this on a few grounds:
  1. Its based on one passage with a questionable translation and some barebones support elsewhere, if that. Its just bad on that alone.
  2. Only Enoch and Elijah never died, out of so many great Biblical men and women, even Jesus died.
  3. Biblical examples and Christian history shows He helps us ENDURE suffering or God will protect His people rather simply, but He is not one to lift people from harm as in a Rapture. That is far, far more common.
And this could be devestating to many Christian converts they expect to be Raptured and aren’t when the Antichrist rises, and lose faith in many cases. That is not a good thing. I would rather teach we will be here, have to endure and likely stand up to the Antichrist and will likely be martyred. But if the Rapture happens then good for God but don’t expect it. I feel God will provide protection and the strength to endure. And we KNOW where we are going so who cares if we suffer here in the end we go to paradise.
 
Rapture is a very practical miracle, see Acts chapter eight.

Here is a video about the salvation of a small girl. She was raptured and delivered to safety…

Rescue
 
Ask your friend this. In Matthew 24:36-41, who was taken away, the godly or the ungodly? The depiction is of Noah and the ark in which the floodwaters took away the ungodly. So if that is the comparison Jesus uses, how does it support the rapture doctrine which calls for a taking up of the godly?

Matt 24: 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
 
BPW75 said:
Ask your friend this. In Matthew 24:36-41, who was taken away, the godly or the ungodly? The depiction is of Noah and the ark in which the floodwaters took away the ungodly. So if that is the comparison Jesus uses, how does it support the rapture doctrine which calls for a taking up of the godly?
Click to expand...
The godly are taken up. This is clearly demonstrated by the other scriptures about being taken up by the spirit of God. I think also in that scripture you quoted is says not to be sleeping when the rapture comes. If you were not to be taken up what difference would it make?
 
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It’s not the idea of the Rapture as such is anti-Biblical, as much as the teaching of a PRE-TRIBULATION rapture is wrong.
 
geometer said:
Rapture is a very practical miracle, see Acts chapter eight.

Here is a video about the salvation of a small girl. She was raptured and delivered to safety…

Rescue
Click to expand...
Your profile states you as religion being a Theosphen. What exactly is that.
 
geometer said:
The godly are taken up. This is clearly demonstrated by the other scriptures about being taken up by the spirit of God. I think also in that scripture you quoted is says not to be sleeping when the rapture comes. If you were not to be taken up what difference would it make?
Click to expand...
So did Jesus use a bad analogy when he compared “the rapture” to Noah? He said just like in the days of Noah, as the floodwaters took away the ungodly, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Who did the floodwaters take away? When the language is plain, why convolute it?

And what other scriptures clearly demonstrate the pretribulational rapture taking away the believers and leaving behind the unbelievers?

Yes, it does say to keep watch. Meaning what? Be on your guard against sin, right? If you’re going to get taken up, why do you need to keep watch? What would it matter?
 
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