Rapture

[hmgs1]

FWIW, Presbyterian Church USA and most mainline denominations tend to agree with Rome on this and conclude it is a figurative rather than literal passage. In fact, there is a very high comfort level that while the message of Revelation is timeless, it was originally written for Christians of the 1st Century, at least partially disguised in code, and refers to the Roman Empire when speaking of the Beast.

The Rapture concept seems to have been a more recent interpretation. Though some trace it back to Clement, Origin and Augustine, I think most agree it was a manifestation of a former Catholic curate named John Nelson Darby in 1827, and then popularized by William Eugene Blackstone in 1908 and the Schofield Reference Bible in 1909.

I don’t ever recall it among Luther, Calvin or the Church’s teachings during the Reformation.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

I have been wondering about the general comparison/contrast of Catholic vs. Protestant views on the “Rapture”. I have been watching a few of the Protestant spins on the TBN network and my basic gut feeling is that their take is somewhat missing in the fundamental idea of salvation…

Thank you for your catholic references. They make more sense to me as you might expect…I am a Catholic after all.

I heard an interesting contradiction within their commentary a couple of days ago. The commentary was describing the difficulties of the end times yet mentioned the prosperity of those that tithe even in the end times (these being the end times in his view) To be honest. I don’t think there will be any prosperity for the Christian in the Tribulation. I think we see a certain hint of it right now where parents are driven out of the public school system and have to pay taxes on their children’s education twice via home schooling and taxation.

Satan unchained is a rather frightening prospect and I am doubtful there will be much opportunity for the Christian till our beloved Lord returns.

Waiting in joyful hope.

David Hunt

 

[Steadfast]

The Church has been going through Tribulation for 2000 years. The only rapture will be the catching up of believers to meet the Lord at His return which will be the next and last time He comes.

 

[cthulhubryan]

What I’ve read and been taught about the rapture comes from two sources:

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be “caught up” together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Revelations 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

It is from Revelations that the idea of the Tribulation occurs and the two get combined to make the idea of the Rapture as a pre-tribulation happening, but Revelations does not mention the actual Rapture and Thessalonians does not mention the Tribulations.

Of course, I was also taught the Revelations was written in code and we do not truly know what it means.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

What do the Catholics believe or teach on the rapture? I have never heard that much said here on the topic and was wondering about that.

Rapture? that is not a biblical term, the biblical term is “Parousia”. **I hope I am left behind **to be caught up in the sky in the “Parousia”.

Jesus instituted the Mass at the Last Supper. Catholics experience this “Parousia” every time in Mass. The Mass as describes in the book of Revelations, The Mass experiences the “Parousia” or “Presence” of Jesus Christ as an anticipation of his second coming made present in the celebration when the groom meets his bride during the “REVELATION” OR “UNVEILING” of the bride of Jesus Christ. To understand the true “Parousia” or the caught up in the Presence of Jesus Christ, one just needs to look to the understanding of the Catholic Mass.

The “rapture” theory as believed by Evangelical non catholics invented it in the 20th century.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

Ultimately that is the fundamental difference for me in the description of the Evenangelical “Rapture” and the more Catholic stated “Parousia”.

It is the the connectivity of the Blessed Sacrament to our Lord and the Lord to us in that sacrafice realized.

Without this concept of connectivity to Christ ulimate original sacrafice you are left with only part of the picture that the Evangelicals provide. No surprises there I guess. The protestant movement has been running around with only part of the picture for a good long time. Some of these Rapture teachings imply that the Holy Father will “be” the antichrist or that all Catholics in particular will find only a fiery end result…

I am completely perplexed by the logic of this since we hold in our chalices and tabernacles the very holy bread that they seek. The manna that Jesus left for us.

Because we can, will, and do claim that we have Jesus the living Christ alive in our hearts.

I always marvel at the richness and truth of the Catholic teachings. They are noteably challenging but quite beautiful just the same.

Again and again they show Gods love and mercy for creatures that little deserve salvation.

Thank you for your posts…

“Create in me a clean heart oh God, blot out my offenses”:knight2:

 

[Steadfast]

Rapture? that is not a biblical term, the biblical term is “Parousia”. **I hope I am left behind **to be caught up in the sky in the “Parousia”.

Jesus instituted the Mass at the Last Supper. Catholics experience this “Parousia” every time in Mass. The Mass as describes in the book of Revelations, The Mass experiences the “Parousia” or “Presence” of Jesus Christ as an anticipation of his second coming made present in the celebration when the groom meets his bride during the “REVELATION” OR “UNVEILING” of the bride of Jesus Christ. To understand the true “Parousia” or the caught up in the Presence of Jesus Christ, one just needs to look to the understanding of the Catholic Mass.

The “rapture” theory as believed by Evangelical non catholics invented it in the 20th century.

Actually, “rapture” is a biblical word. It’s from a Latin word meaning “to catch up”. This is why eagles and hawks are known as “raptors”. They catch up their prey.

The biblical reference is to 1 Thess. 4:17:

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The Greek word is ἁρπάζω (“harpazo”).

In the Vulgate the word is “rapiemur” which is the passive form of the verb “rapio” “to catch”. In English, this has been rendered “rapture”.

It’s an interesting word. We speak of being “in rapture” when we listen to particularly wonderful music and are “caught up” in it. Similarly, we will listen to a great story teller with “rapt” attention as we are “caught up” in his tale.

Any way, the word is certainly biblical, though the theology the chiliasts have attached to it is not.

 

[ralphinal]

Actually, “rapture” is a biblical word. It’s from a Latin word meaning “to catch up”. This is why eagles and hawks are known as “raptors”. They catch up their prey.

The biblical reference is to 1 Thess. 4:17:

The Greek word is ἁρπάζω (“harpazo”).

In the Vulgate the word is “rapiemur” which is the passive form of the verb “rapio” “to catch”. In English, this has been rendered “rapture”.

It’s an interesting word. We speak of being “in rapture” when we listen to particularly wonderful music and are “caught up” in it. Similarly, we will listen to a great story teller with “rapt” attention as we are “caught up” in his tale.

Any way, the word is certainly biblical, though the theology the chiliasts have attached to it is not.

Correct. Catholics can and do accept this as teaching if the time-line is correct.

No pre-trib rapture. At the end, taken up, given ressurected bodies, and then judged.

 

[Ruthie]

Well, I was fretting there for a minute. I wouldn’t like to be caught up out of my car, resulting in an accident. But the Lord Himself said we will all be gathered before Him (Mt 25:31-33), and then He’ll separate the sheep from the goats. So even if we are taken in the twinkling of an eye, there will be no one left for my car to hurt.

Yay!

Heart of Jesus, full of goodness and love, have mercy on us.

Ruthie