Rapture.

[Brotherchuckles]

To All:
Please do a search and type in “What were the views of the Early Fathers view of the Rapture”.
In Christ,
Charles

 

[zz912]

I think there is a bit of a language barrier. The Rapture, is derived from the Latin text I believe it was Rapimier as stated above!

The word Rapture has unfortunately been highjacked by Dispensationalist. There is room to believe in a calling up, as you have probably read, but not a 7 year Pre-trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib Rapture as dispensationalist teach.

We look at the second advent as a one time event. No secret rapture of Christians while Jews and non-believers are LEFT BEHIND!

You can see some of the Catholic view in an Ignatius Study Bible.

Google…Partial Preterism or Orthodox Preterism!

Oh I know that. I was pointing out the unintentional comedy that the Dispensationalists term “Rapture” comes from certain prooftexts they use, and the Latin Vulgate is the source of it. It is funny because these same Dispensationalists would never in a million years acknowledge the Catholic Church as correct, but they use the translation from a Catholic Bible.

 

[QuickCat]

There is no such thing. Rapture theology is a fairy tale made up in modern times to comfort people who don’t feel like Christians should have to endure the trials of the apocalypse…

Please explain: 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and Titus 2:13.
Thanks,
QC

 

[David]

Please explain: 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and Titus 2:13.
Thanks,
QC

Those verses refer to the second and final coming of Jesus Christ.

Peace
David

 

[Nate13]

I’m recommending the book “The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life” by Father Charles Arminjon which was written in the 1800’s.

St. Therese of Lisieux gave a great recommendation for the book.

 

[QuickCat]

Catholic interpreters tend not to distinguish the Rapture from Christ’s glorious Second Coming.

Hi Todd: So do some non-catholic groups. But, if you place the Scriptures for the rapture side by side with those covering the 2nd coming you will find much contrast. It seems to be a common error to make the translation of the saints [the rapture] and the 2nd coming the same event. They are not the same.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[QuickCat]

Those verses refer to the second and final coming of Jesus Christ.

Peace
David

Hi David: No, not really! See #26. If you would like I can expand on this and show the contrasts.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[QuickCat]

I’m recommending the book “The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life” by Father Charles Arminjon which was written in the 1800’s.

St. Therese of Lisieux gave a great recommendation for the book.

Hi Nate: I haven’t read the cited book, but I would guess that Mr. Arminjon equates the “rapture” with the end of the world. That seems to be a common error. The rapture takes place before the onset of Daniel’s 70th week and the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Christ to set up the long promised kingdom for Israel and the nations. Paul writes that we, in the Body of Christ, are not subject to the wrath of God [1 Thess. 5:9]. The tribulation period will see the wrath of God poured out on a Christ rejecting world.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[zz912]

Hi David: No, not really! See #26. If you would like I can expand on this and show the contrasts.
Grace and Peace,
QC

Well don’t keep us in suspense, show what ya got!

But remember this, all Christians for 1800 years read the same verses you have read, and they didn’t interpret them in this way. I hope you don’t believe that Jesus left His Body in the dark and teaching error for such a long time, do you?

 

[TimothyH]

Please explain: 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and Titus 2:13.
Thanks,
QC

It is a reference to the practice of “Going out to meet” a visiting dignitary, king or military leader.

***Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord *in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

The citizens of a city would leave the relative safety of their city, which was sometimes even a walled city, and go some miles outside of the city gate to meet visiting kings and military leaders. They would go out unamred as a gesture of subordination. Prominent members of the citizenry, civic leaders, judges and even the local king or governor would greet the dignitary, gifts would be given, and the citizens would escort the dignitary back to their homes as an honored guest.

We see an example as early as Abrham’s reception after his victory in battle in Genesis 14.

***When Abram returned from his defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were allied with him, the king of Sodom went out to greet him *in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley). (Genesis 14:17)

There are numerous incidents like this in the Bible and it is a documented to have been a custom in many cultures. To this day a crowd will still go out to the airport to meet a visiting dignitary such as the president or the governor when he comes to town.

It has to do with meeting Jesus when he returns and escorting him to earth as an honored guest. It has nothing to do returning to Heaven with Jesus.

It ties in with Jewish belief that the earth would be transformed and recreated at the end of time. There would be a new Genesis, a new creation.

***The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new." *(Revelation 21:5)

We see that not only Jesus comes down out of heaven, but heaven itself comes down.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.b 3I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race." (Revelation 21:1-3)

Jesus and all of heaven come down and dwell with men.God dwells with man on earth. Paul was speaking about the Jewish custom or “Going out to meet” Jesus, escorting him to earth, and the belief that the earth would be radically transformed into heaven itself by Jesus at the end of time.

-Tim-

 

[David]

1 Thes 4:15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the** coming** of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Notice that St Paul wrote of the coming (singular) and not comings plural.
Christians for over 2 thousand years have believed in the second coming. No mention of a third coming. The second coming will be on the last day.

The multiple coming belief is not Catholic.

Peace
David

 

[QuickCat]

Well don’t keep us in suspense, show what ya got!

But remember this, all Christians for 1800 years read the same verses you have read, and they didn’t interpret them in this way. I hope you don’t believe that Jesus left His Body in the dark and teaching error for such a long time, do you?

RAPTURE
Translation of all believers – 1 Thess. 4:16,17
Saints caught up to be with the Lord = 1 Thess. 4:17
Earth not judged at this time
Before the day of wrath – 1 Thess. 5:9,10
No Reference to Satan
Christ comes for His own – 1 Thess. 4:16,17;
Translation of the saints a mystery revealed to Paul – 1 Cor. 15:51
Christ comes in the air, not to earth – 1 Thess. 4:16,17
Tribulation begins after the rapture [translation] of the saints

2ND COMING
No translation of saints
Follows prophetic signs – Matthew 24:29ff
Foretold in many O.T. Scriptures – e.g., Jer. 23:5ff; 31:31-34; Zech. 14:4ff,9
Satan bound – Rev. 20:1-3
Christ returns to earth – Zech. 14:4ff
Millennial kingdom begins – Rev. 20:4

 

[PeVee]

Act says that Jesus will return the way he left. That is why at the 2nd coming he is in the air and coming down to the ground.

Are we to understand that the “rapture” is a fly-by of Jesus and since he is in the air and doesn’t touch ground that it doesn’t count as the second coming?

All the rapture verses refer to the 2nd coming.

Keep in mind that if your interpretation of the bible doesn’t match the interpretation of the church that gave the world the New Testament, you’ve got a problem with your interpretation. Do we go with 2,000 years of oral and written tradition, or 200 years of a misinterpretation? Give me the church of Jesus’ interpretation any day.

 

[Luvtosew]

The Catholic church does not teach the false dispensational teaching of the Rapture.
It is a false teaching from the 1800’s. The Rapture Trap is a very good book, I am surprised
you thought it was frilly. It is dangerous because it leads those who believe in it into a false security that they will escape suffering and also causes its adherents to withdraw from the world since they are going to be taken away from all this evil and suffering. If you follow this garbage, you would be less likely to “become the salt” of the earth and to work to advance God’s kingdom.

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1005.asp

In this link it says the council of ephesus denounced the rapture in 431
and again in 1516 at the Fifth Lateran Council

so it had to be there to be denounced.

I’m not sure what you mean by false security, if the rapture is true all faithful Chritians will be taken up and so no false security there, as we sure would want to be faithful Christians,

but any of us can die tomorrow so we all need to be prepared for our own rapture if you will.

 

[David]

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1005.asp

In this link it says the council of ephesus denounced the rapture in 431
and again in 1516 at the Fifth Lateran Council

so it had to be there to be denounced.

I’m not sure what you mean by false security, if the rapture is true all faithful Chritians will be taken up and so no false security there, as we sure would want to be faithful Christians,

but any of us can die tomorrow so we all need to be prepared for our own rapture if you will.

That website says the Church denounced millennialism, not the rapture.
Peace
David

 

[BaileyJoe]

It’s a 19th century invention. Wasn’t it an American Protestant?

Yes I think you are right. I recall reading, a young girl had a dream about a rapture and told Schofield, who was making a Bible. I think he added her dream in the margin and some preachers took it as gospel.

 

[Luvtosew]

1 Thes 4:15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the** coming** of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Notice that St Paul wrote of the coming (singular) and not comings plural.
Christians for over 2 thousand years have believed in the second coming. No mention of a third coming. The second coming will be on the last day.

The multiple coming belief is not Catholic.

Peace
David

The way I understood the rapture is Christ does not come to Earth but takes the Christians up.

Now I don’t know what to think, acutally we all need to be ready, we could pass tomorrow.

 

[onemangang]

RAPTURE
Translation of all believers – 1 Thess. 4:16,17
Saints caught up to be with the Lord = 1 Thess. 4:17
Earth not judged at this time
Before the day of wrath – 1 Thess. 5:9,10
No Reference to Satan
Christ comes for His own – 1 Thess. 4:16,17;
Translation of the saints a mystery revealed to Paul – 1 Cor. 15:51
Christ comes in the air, not to earth – 1 Thess. 4:16,17
Tribulation begins after the rapture [translation] of the saints

2ND COMING
No translation of saints
Follows prophetic signs – Matthew 24:29ff
Foretold in many O.T. Scriptures – e.g., Jer. 23:5ff; 31:31-34; Zech. 14:4ff,9
Satan bound – Rev. 20:1-3
Christ returns to earth – Zech. 14:4ff
Millennial kingdom begins – Rev. 20:4

Here is a debate you can watch on youtube between Tommy Ice (dispensationalist) and Gary Demar (partial preterist)

The contrasting views of both camps are made clear!

youtu.be/h3WrtZ_H7OU

A few Partial Preterist from the Protestant camp are Kenneth Gentry, Anthony Hoekema, R.C Sproul, Hank Hannegraaff, N.T Wright and many more!

For the most part Catholic Scholars have been typically modified partial preterist, as well as Orthodox and Anglicans

preteristarchive.com/Modern/index.html

 

[QuickCat]

Act says that Jesus will return the way he left. That is why at the 2nd coming he is in the air and coming down to the ground.

Are we to understand that the “rapture” is a fly-by of Jesus and since he is in the air and doesn’t touch ground that it doesn’t count as the second coming?

All the rapture verses refer to the 2nd coming.

Keep in mind that if your interpretation of the bible doesn’t match the interpretation of the church that gave the world the New Testament, you’ve got a problem with your interpretation. Do we go with 2,000 years of oral and written tradition, or 200 years of a misinterpretation? Give me the church of Jesus’ interpretation any day.

Compare Acts 1:11 with Zech. 14:4 - This is the 2nd advent. In the translation of the saints, as described in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and Titus 2:13, the Lord Jesus Christ does not return to earth, He “catches up” the believers.

Many scholars have seen and taught this distinction. BTW, chiliasm [millennialism] was the escatology of the early church.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[QuickCat]

1 Thes 4:15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the** coming** of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Notice that St Paul wrote of the coming (singular) and not comings plural.
Christians for over 2 thousand years have believed in the second coming. No mention of a third coming. The second coming will be on the last day.

The multiple coming belief is not Catholic.

Peace
David

There are only 2 comings to earth. Obviously His 1st coming to earth [for Israel - Mt 15:24; Rom. 15:8] is history. His 2nd coming to Israel and the nations - to setup His kingdom is yet future. In between these 2 comings He is going to come in the air to “catch up” the believers, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We are to “comfort one another with ese words.”
Grace and Peace,
QC