Rapture.

[QuickCat]

I never said you specifically did contradict scripture being that I only read one of your post. I said the non-denominational evangelical/fundamentalist crowd tends to fit their theology into scripture by contradicting scripture!

I just laid out, there is a Particular Judgment that we undergo at death and a General Judgement that All partake in after the Resurrection when Christ returns, that’s all!

As far as Religion goes, I can only assume that, you do not worship God but you believe Jesus is your savior and Lord?

Or am I missing something?

The Dictionary definition of religion

religion |riˈlijən|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods

Or do you mean the biblical definition of religion as in James and 1 Timothy

1 Timothy 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their** religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.**

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

So you say NO to either, or both, worshipping God and helping out orphans and widows?

Strong’s Greek Dictionary
2151. ευσεβεω eusebeo
Search for G2151 in KJVSL
ευσεβεω eusebeo yoo-seb-eh’-o
from 2152; to be pious, i.e. (towards God) to worship, or (towards parents) to respect (support):—show piety, worship.

See Greek 2152
“Religion” is not mentioned in 1 Tim. 5:4.
James is writing to Israel [James 1:1] and speaking of the Jew’s religion. Judaism was their religion. Biblical Christianity is never called a “religion” in Scripture. It is a relationship - “Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ…” To say that I don’t worship God is apalling. I pray to GOD the Father, in the name of GOD the Son, in the power of GOD the Holy Spirit - Ephesians 4:20.

 

[onemangang]

Strong’s Greek Dictionary
2151. ευσεβεω eusebeo
Search for G2151 in KJVSL
ευσεβεω eusebeo yoo-seb-eh’-o
from 2152; to be pious, i.e. (towards God) to worship, or (towards parents) to respect (support):—show piety, worship.

See Greek 2152
“Religion” is not mentioned in 1 Tim. 5:4.
James is writing to Israel [James 1:1] and speaking of the Jew’s religion. Judaism was their religion. Biblical Christianity is never called a “religion” in Scripture. It is a relationship - “Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ…” To say that I don’t worship God is apalling. I pray to GOD the Father, in the name of GOD the Son, in the power of GOD the Holy Spirit - Ephesians 4:20.

Ok in 1 Tim 5:4 it says Religion, but that was in the NIV my bad.

greek-dictionary.net/eusebeō

So you are saying that James is giving by letter, a message to Israel, and not converted or completed Jews in the diaspora? Silly me, I thought James was a Christian, speaking to Messianic Jews.

As far as “Biblical Christianity is never called a “religion” in Scripture.” I provided a couple of text that say otherwise and Jesus was a Jew who followed the Jewish Religion. He didn’t abolish but Fulfill it!

“To say that I don’t worship God is apalling.” You’re the one who said it by saying religion NO, not me! I simply pointed out Religion’s dictionary definition, and scripture references that speak on religion.

Apparently you have your own personal definition of the word “religion”, one that is not used among the masses, and general population, but understood only by those in your particular Christian TRADITION!

 

[QuickCat]

Please know that it was “religion” that brought these ideas to you. You didn’t think of them yourself.

If you are really interested in the Catholic view of the “rapture”, I recommend this site: biblechristiansociety.com/download
Scroll down to the appropriate talk. The speaker even uses a Protestant “beat 'em over the head” style that appeals to so many rapturists.

Nah! No religion! Relationship! Checkout the “religions” of the world. They all require “you” to do something - works! Biblical Christianity does not require you to work for your salvation. The LORD Jesus Christ did it all. There is nothing for you to do, but -“Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Believe what? 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Paul calls this “The gospel by which you are S-A-V-E-D.”
Grace and Peace,
Don J.

 

[QuickCat]

Ok in 1 Tim 5:4 it says Religion, but that was in the NIV my bad.

greek-dictionary.net/eusebeō

So you are saying that James is giving by letter, a message to Israel, and not converted or completed Jews in the diaspora? Silly me, I thought James was a Christian, speaking to Messianic Jews.

As far as “Biblical Christianity is never called a “religion” in Scripture.” I provided a couple of text that say otherwise and Jesus was a Jew who followed the Jewish Religion. He didn’t abolish but Fulfill it!

“To say that I don’t worship God is apalling.” You’re the one who said it by saying religion NO, not me! I simply pointed out Religion’s dictionary definition, and scripture references that speak on religion.

Apparently you have your own personal definition of the word “religion”, one that is not used among the masses, and general population, but understood only by those in your particular Christian TRADITION!

In Gal. 2:1-8. James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel . They continued to preach the “gospel of the circumcision” [vs 7,9]. James writes to the “twelve tribes scattered abroad.” How many tribes in the Body of Christ? Please also note that James, Peter and John “added nothing to Paul” [vs 6]. On the “contrary” he added much to them [vs 7 "gospel of the UNcircumcision]. Paul is the “apostle to the Gentiles” [Romans 11:13; 15:16]. BTW, the NIV is a very faulty translation.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[cajunhillbilly]

1 Thes 4:15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the** coming** of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Notice that St Paul wrote of the coming (singular) and not comings plural.
Christians for over 2 thousand years have believed in the second coming. No mention of a third coming. The second coming will be on the last day.

The multiple coming belief is not Catholic.

Peace
David

Nor is it in keeping with any of the early Reformers. None of them- not Luther not Calvin not the Anglican, Lutheran or Reformed bodies- held to such a novel idea. Sorry I know this is a Catholic site, but had to mention that so people can see how new and novel the “pretrib rapture” view is.

 

[onemangang]

Nah! No religion! Relationship! Checkout the “religions” of the world. They all require “you” to do something - works! Biblical Christianity does not require you to work for your salvation. The LORD Jesus Christ did it all. There is nothing for you to do, but -“Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Believe what? 1 Cor. 15:1-4. Paul calls this “The gospel by which you are S-A-V-E-D.”
Grace and Peace,
Don J.

Wow, so I can throw out the rest of the bible and just rely on 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Sorry as Catholics, we don’t just cherry pick scriptures to follow. We are people of the book, not people of a passage!

Back to the Word Religion. I have provided a Dictionary Definition and pointed out what religion is and does from the scripture already!

You don’t accept that. Instead you redefine the word “Religion”** and subject it to your terms,** instead of the widely accepted term in which religion is defined, then expect us to accept your personal interpretation of that definition. Sorry,** I do not accept your definition**. If I were to accept your terms in defining words, then you would have to redefine the entirety of english linguistics and be a personal interpreter of the English language for ALL men.

I wonder what else you redefine and subject to your own personal interpretation, scripture?

Lets look at what St. Augustine said about that.
"Your design clearly is to deprive Scripture of all authority and to make every man’s mind the authority of what he is to approve or disapprove of. This is not to be subject to Scripture, but to make Scripture subject to you. If you discard authority, to what, I beseech you, will you take yourself?" (Reply to Faustus the Manichaean, 32:19 [A.D. 400])

I would** not** contend that people who are believers in the 7 year pre-mid-or post trib Rapture are subjecting scripture to their own personal interpretation, because that interpretation is not their own. It is a TRADITION, one that is taught by men and handed down by the TRADITIONS of MEN!

You keep bringing up works? Catholics do not believe we receive payment due for work performed, that’s called Strict merit. Catholics believe we are saved by God’s Mercy and Grace and not by OUR works, but HIS merit.

I’ve read a couple of your post and it seems like you think one can will themselves to believe, is that true?

**If that is true, it sounds to me that you believe that your saved by works being that if **you believe faith is not something that was GIVEN to you by God, through HIS grace, but an autonomous free act of the sinner exercising his free will to believe in God apart from the Holy Spirit ALREADY dwelling inside of you. That is a work of man, better yet, it is Pelagianism, a heresy declared by the Catholic Church. Any Calvinist would love to point that out to you.

It is the Holy Spirit ALREADY working in you that moves you toward the Love of God and hatred of sin.

preteristarchive.com/

Peace!

 

[David]

Nor is it in keeping with any of the early Reformers. None of them- not Luther not Calvin not the Anglican, Lutheran or Reformed bodies- held to such a novel idea. Sorry I know this is a Catholic site, but had to mention that so people can see how new and novel the “pretrib rapture” view is.

Thank you, good information.
It is interesting how the rapture proponents operate under the assumption, that their novel Bible interpretations are infallible. All the while, there are dozens of different rapture scenarios.

Peace
David

 

[onemangang]

In Gal. 2:1-8. James, Peter and John agreed to confine their ministry to Israel *. They continued to preach the “gospel of the circumcision” [vs 7,9]. *

First. The gospel was to go first to the Jew and then the Gentile as CHRIST had commanded Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent: commanding them, saying: Go ye not into the way of the Gentiles, and into the city of the Samaritans enter ye not.[6]** But go ye rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.**.

That also blows a big hole in the 7 year trib theory of the Rapture. When you lay out the timeline from Daniel 9 (70 weeks) you will see there is no room for a 7 year trib because It has already been fulfilled. (To get the Jewish clock or time line look at Leviticus 25:8-10) To find Dates look at 1 Kings 6:1

James writes to the “twelve tribes scattered abroad.” How many tribes in the Body of Christ? Please also note that James, Peter and John “added nothing to Paul” [vs 6]. On the “contrary” he added much to them [vs 7 "gospel of the UNcircumcision]. Paul is the “apostle to the Gentiles” [Romans 11:13; 15:16]. BTW, the NIV is a very faulty translation.
Grace and Peace,
QC

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed for declining charity.