Rapture?

[Fidelis]

Here’s a website with several articles from a Catholic perspective regarding this subject. The writer is Carl Olsen, the author of the best selling book “Will Catholics Be Left Behind?”

carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html

I’d also recommend going to the Catholic Answers home page and putting “Rapture” or “Left Behind” into the “Search” feature. You’ll find several good articles there from reliable writers. Here is one of their Special Reports on this:
catholic.com/library/false_profit.asp

If you’re looking for other good books on the subject by Catholics, look for the following:

The Rapture Trap, by Paul Thigpen
catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=948

Rapture, by David Currie
catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=3447

If you prefer tapes or CDs, I’d recommend:

The Rapture Files, by Tim Staples
The Rapture Revealed, by David Currie
(both available from St. Joseph’s Communications)
saintjoe.com/

Will You Be Left Behind?, by Carl Olsen
(Same link as above)

Catholics & The Rapture, by Patrick Madid
surprisedbytruth.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=52

Introduction to Prophecy, by Steve Wood
Delusions of Rapture & Prophecy, by Steve Wood and Paul Thigpen
familylifecenter.net/cart/display_results.cfm?category=Biblical%20Prophecy&user=51422080

 

[holy_wood]

I really hate it when people refer to their faith as the One, True Faith. I’ve only heard Christians do this and it pisses me off. Our faith is not the only one out there, and we don’t know fopr sure that everything in Christianity is true. That’s why we call it faith, isn’t it?

Well if your Christian you have to believe that Jesus Christ is the one true Lord of all of creation. You also have to believe that his word and Church can never teach anything different than he for they are one in the same.

Yes, there are many beliefs out there and those people have every right to practice them, as do I have the right to practice mine. However, those people also believe there religion is the only true one (Islam, Judaism, Mormon’s, Jehobah’s Wittnesses, Satanism, ect.).

WWe have faith that are religion is the only true one, but I also believe for a variety of reasons and common sence should tell you that everyone believes there religion is the only true one even if they do not say it, otherwise they would be willing risking there eternal salvation on a lie.(Which of course they already are since the truth only comes from the Catholic Church)

 

[holy_wood]

Also try this mp3 download…
biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/rapture_and_the_bible.mp3

and this article at…
scripturecatholic.com/second_coming.html

 

[Kitty_Chan]

As the “Left Behind” fiction points out, Catholics won’t be “raptured”. The only ones even remotely similar to Catholics to be raptured are the fringe Seda groups.

Well if Catholics in the book are not raputured, then I guess the Pope was not Catholic as he was outta there. The new “pope” was crooked man who was left behind. And one of the main characters was a Protestant pastor who was left behind.

Just to keep things clear.

To anyone who states that Catholics will be left behind in the event of a Rapture has no clue about Christianity and are missing the point of the Rapture. Its for those who accept Christ and who He is. Thats certainly fits Catholics.

Thats all IF the Rapture should occur.

as for me since studying this stuff Ive decided on the 4th therory.
Thats Whatever, whenever, Im good with it.

What we should be doing is understanding all of it then trimming our lamps and filling them with oil. Because to say whos is, whos out, whats gonna happen, even Jesus said only the Father knows. We just have to be ready for any eventuality.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I read Carl Olsen’s book that has been mentioned a time or two already. There are a couple of things he pointed out in the book that really show how false the “rapture” theory is. First of all, it is all based on cutting and pasting scripture together out of context. For example, rapture believers will put part of a scripture of Daniel, with part of 1 Thessalonians, with part of Revelation. Heck, you could come up with nearly any theory doing that! And I love the use of 1 Thess 4:16-17: 16: For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
17: then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

They tend to disregard the part I’ve bolded. The trumpet call is clearly shown in Revelation (and I think there is a verse in Matthew as well) to be the beginning of the Second Coming.

Another bothersome thing about “rapture” is that there is no supportable historical evidence that the early Church believed it or even the reformers. Again, they show a few out of context remarks about Christ’s second coming and turn them into statements that supposedly support the rapture theory.

And lastly, what really bothers me about the rapture theory is the fact that dispensationalists believe that the Church is just some sort of after thought of God. That the Jews were supposed to accept Jesus (even though scripture clearly foretells they would not) and because they didn’t God had to establish His new Church as a Plan B. The folks at His new Church just cannot suffer the Tribulation, so they have to be snatched up prior to it. Guess they missed those passages that talk about redemptive suffering. They also misinterpret the “last days” and believe that we are just getting into the last days. Wrong again…scripture clearly states we have been in the last days since Christ ascended to Heaven. And someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think rapture believers believe Christ is reigning as King right now, that He has not taken His throne ( for them, that only happens at the Second Coming). Yikes!

PS. about the Tim Lahaye books, the only reason that the Pope was raptured was because He had realized that the Catholic Church teachings were wrong, so he had, in effect, become a “real Christian” . Secondly, there are a lot of subtle jabs toward the Catholic Church from Tim Lahaye who says he is not “anti-Catholic” but just “anti-false church”. To me, his books did as much damage as the Da Vinci Code. They have literally led millions astray.

 

[Sabda]

I read Carl Olsen’s book that has been mentioned a time or two already. There are a couple of things he pointed out in the book that really show how false the “rapture” theory is. First of all, it is all based on cutting and pasting scripture together out of context. For example, rapture believers will put part of a scripture of Daniel, with part of 1 Thessalonians, with part of Revelation. Heck, you could come up with nearly any theory doing that! And I love the use of 1 Thess 4:16-17: 16: For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;
17: then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.

They tend to disregard the part I’ve bolded. The trumpet call is clearly shown in Revelation (and I think there is a verse in Matthew as well) to be the beginning of the Second Coming.

.

I have noticed that myself. They tend to talk about a “secret” rapture. Well that passage blows that out of the water. Trumpet calls ext. are clearly noisy. That means that everyone is going to be aware of what is going on. It’s not going to be a secret.
I don’t know if you have read David Currie’s book but he does a good job of walking you though the entire book of Daniel and Revelation as well as several other relevant sections. He doesn’t just pick verses out.

And lastly, what really bothers me about the rapture theory is the fact that dispensationalists believe that the Church is just some sort of after thought of God. That the Jews were supposed to accept Jesus (even though scripture clearly foretells they would not) and because they didn’t God had to establish His new Church as a Plan B. The folks at His new Church just cannot suffer the Tribulation, so they have to be snatched up prior to it. Guess they missed those passages that talk about redemptive suffering. They also misinterpret the “last days” and believe that we are just getting into the last days. Wrong again…scripture clearly states we have been in the last days since Christ ascended to Heaven. And someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think rapture believers believe Christ is reigning as King right now, that He has not taken His throne ( for them, that only happens at the Second Coming). Yikes!

From what I understand they believe Christ will literally come down to earth and reign on earth for a 1000 yrs. Of course they completely ignore the words of Christ “my kingdom is NOT of this world”. What they don’t realize is they are falling into the same belief that some of the Jews had in the first century. Christ was already aware of this belief and dealt with it.

 

[mark_a]

Well if Catholics in the book are not raputured, then I guess the Pope was not Catholic as he was outta there. The new “pope” was crooked man who was left behind. And one of the main characters was a Protestant pastor who was left behind.

My bad. The storyline of the first book or two was told to me, I have not read it. I’m sorry for misrepresenting the books.

What we should be doing is understanding all of it then trimming our lamps and filling them with oil. Because to say whos is, whos out, whats gonna happen, even Jesus said only the Father knows. We just have to be ready for any eventuality.

Who knows when the end will come, but as Father Corapi says “the end is very near for you and me.”

 

[Texan_in_DC]

The word rapture comes from the Greek for “caught up”. Paul uses it in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the very first book of the New Testament: “Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” Sadly the fundamental circles and many good Christians will take this one simple verse out of context, which can easily be done. By doing this anyone that reads this verse would indeed believe in the “Rapture” as taught by theses fundamental circles and other Protestants.

“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” With this vocabulary and scenario, borrowed from the arrival (parousia) of the emperor, who had come to restore order to a troubled region, Paul symbolically illustrates the Parousia of Jesus. Like the emperor, Jesus will be greeted at his arrival by those “caught up” in enthusiasm. Paul never intended his analogy with the Roman political scene to be taken literally, having christians tiptoeing around on the clouds.

Like the word anti-christ, the word rapture is not found in the book or Revelation referring to christians, but it has become a part of the eschatological vocabulary among the fundamental protestant groups. This Rapture theory was unheard of before the 20th century!

---

 

[SeekerJen]

My bad. The storyline of the first book or two was told to me, I have not read it. I’m sorry for misrepresenting the books.

I’ve read the first two books, unfortunately. You did not misrepresent them IMO. The anti-Catholicism was not overt, but it was certainly present. These books are as dangerous as “The Davinci Code”.

 

[johannahw]

I’m pretty sure the word rapture comes from a verse in the Latin Vulgate. Its roots are in Latin and not in Greek.
Johannah

 

[mark_a]

I’ve read the first two books, unfortunately. You did not misrepresent them IMO. The anti-Catholicism was not overt, but it was certainly present. These books are as dangerous as “The Davinci Code”.

I remember that there was a buzz about the books each time one came out. I was curious until I was told that they were fiction.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

I’m pretty sure the word rapture comes from a verse in the Latin Vulgate. Its roots are in Latin and not in Greek.
Johannah

“Rapture” is a word of Latin origin (“raptus” = “having been seized”), not Hebrew or Greek, the languages of the Bible. In Greek harpazo, which is found in the Greek text of 1 Thes. 4:17. means, “to raise from the ground”, “take for oneself” or, simply, “to choose” (haireomai), all of which are akin to airo, “to raise up.”

 

[Sabda]

The word rapture comes from the Greek for “caught up”. Paul uses it in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, the very first book of the New Testament: “Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” Sadly the fundamental circles and many good Christians will take this one simple verse out of context, which can easily be done. By doing this anyone that reads this verse would indeed believe in the “Rapture” as taught by theses fundamental circles and other Protestants.

“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” With this vocabulary and scenario, borrowed from the arrival (parousia) of the emperor, who had come to restore order to a troubled region, Paul symbolically illustrates the Parousia of Jesus. Like the emperor, Jesus will be greeted at his arrival by those “caught up” in enthusiasm. Paul never intended his analogy with the Roman political scene to be taken literally, having christians tiptoeing around on the clouds.

Like the word anti-christ, the word rapture is not found in the book or Revelation referring to christians, but it has become a part of the eschatological vocabulary among the fundamental protestant groups. This Rapture theory was unheard of before the 20th century!

---

That’s another thing that get’s ignored about this passage. If you look at the verse, especially the parts in bold, it states that “we **who are left **…will get caught up to the Lord”. Left from what? What happened that we are left? Where did everyone else go?

They make it sound like the believers will be the first to leave and everyone else will be left. The Bible clearly says not so.

 

[Texan_in_DC]

That’s another thing that get’s ignored about this passage. If you look at the verse, especially the parts in bold, it states that “we **who are left **…will get caught up to the Lord”. Left from what? What happened that we are left? Where did everyone else go?

They make it sound like the believers will be the first to leave and everyone else will be left. The Bible clearly says not so.

You are reading too much into it, those who are alive means those who are alive today, those who are left means the ones that are still alive, lets not forget if you asked Saint Paul x years ago that we would all still be waiting on Jesus Christ second coming today in 2007, he would either look at you crossed eyed or call you crazy.

These early christians expectted Jesus return any day, and many were “dying for their faith” or putting their faith on the line as they were converting to the new Christian religion.

There are many many issues with the Raputue concept but ironically this was a comparison used by Paul in his writtings.

 

[Sabda]

Your right I was, my bad.

 

[blacktiger057]

Well if your Christian you have to believe that Jesus Christ is the one true Lord of all of creation. You also have to believe that his word and Church can never teach anything different than he for they are one in the same.

Yes, there are many beliefs out there and those people have every right to practice them, as do I have the right to practice mine. However, those people also believe there religion is the only true one (Islam, Judaism, Mormon’s, Jehobah’s Wittnesses, Satanism, ect.).

WWe have faith that are religion is the only true one, but I also believe for a variety of reasons and common sence should tell you that everyone believes there religion is the only true one even if they do not say it, otherwise they would be willing risking there eternal salvation on a lie.(Which of course they already are since the truth only comes from the Catholic Church)

I believe the Catholic faith is mostly true, but that doesn’t mean it is the only true one. The only religion I highly disaprove of is Satanism because it’s evil for so many reason, from demons to blood sacrifice. But all the rest have good intentions. As you said, everyone believes there beliefs are the one true ones, otherwise they wouldn’t believe it. So you telling Jews that Catholicism is better than their religion is really bitchy. It pisses so many people off, even people who are Catholics themselves. Spread the faith, but don’t go preaching it out to the world when they don’t want to listen, because they won’t.

 

[Sabda]

I believe the Catholic faith is mostly true, but that doesn’t mean it is the only true one. The only religion I highly disaprove of is Satanism because it’s evil for so many reason, from demons to blood sacrifice. But all the rest have good intentions. As you said, everyone believes there beliefs are the one true ones, otherwise they wouldn’t believe it. So you telling Jews that Catholicism is better than their religion is really bitchy. It pisses so many people off, even people who are Catholics themselves. Spread the faith, but don’t go preaching it out to the world when they don’t want to listen, because they won’t.

FACT: People will get annoyed with you no matter what you say. If you say the sky is blue, someone out there WILL argue with you over it! If you say the sky is pink, someone out there WILL argue with you over it! I do not worry about what other people think. Truth is truth and there are not multiple truths out there.

 

[blacktiger057]

Truth is truth and there are not multiple truths out there.

At least that’s what you believe…lol

 

[Kitty_Chan]

My bad. The storyline of the first book or two was told to me, I have not read it. I’m sorry for misrepresenting the books.

Who knows when the end will come, but as Father Corapi says “the end is very near for you and me.”

no biggie and Im gonna dig into the first bk and reread what it was about the Pope becoming protestant to be raptured, Im sure I didnt read that, but I will make sure to be fair.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Now like I said I refuse to “believe” in any of the theorys because if our Lord Jesus didnt know, then how can we* hold our breath *and say we do

---

So, as for the rapture, something to think about is this. Right now the world does not erupt why? Why is it not the days of Noah yet? As bad as it seems, were not there yet. Why?

Perhaps because the church is here, if it be Catholic or Protestants. To be clear lets divide believers by the Nicene Creed for the sake of example. Once those people are gone. Where is Gods voice? As in we are His hands and feet.

NOT that God doesnt have a voice as according to Rapture theory He is sending 2 witnesses, and those “left behind” will have to decide if they want to continue sitting on the fence or get off. Be hot or cold, the hot are gone and the cold have to become hot.

Dont forget alot of people have knowledge of God they just reject Him because they want and need that all elusive “proof” give us Proof they cry, well a Rapture would just about do it. But hard hearts are hard hearts.

And if christians are no longer a driving force then the world is “free” to continue its path of self destruction because the only other choice than God to listen to is . . . . .

Im not so sure the rapture deal is about *“getting out of it for believers” *so much as getting the cold to become hot. People never do anything about things until the monsters at the door, because we are a hard headed bunch, a bunch of dumb sheep, it wasnt just Israelites. In case we become snotty about it.