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mark_a
Guest
Most of the rapture believers I know are happier about the suffering of those not raptured (left behind) than they are about being raptured away from the suffering.
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johnstown_johnn
Guest
LOL !!! It is so befuddling as to the different outlooks we christians have on things.
I was raised in Catholic schools since 1st grade and “Rapture” has never been a topic of focus…in fact, I don’t ever remember it being taught. I believe the interpretations are indeed read in reverse.
For any of us to “meet Jesus in the sky” it would take an uncommon holiness to see Him face-to-face without perfecting our souls beforehand. The Rapture is far too presumptuous, IMO.
It is NOT what some imagine it to be. IMO
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Jeanette_L
Guest
That is a sad byproduct of overzealous, over emotional, arrogant preaching. There’s very little room for humility when you believe this false doctrine.
Got it. Purgatory is sort of a detour prior to going to heaven for those not ready. Saved, but needing a makeover, so to speak. Two questions:
- Does purgatory take place for the dead now, or after Christ returns for judgement? Are the dead dead, or are they aware of their status?
- From a Catholic point of view, would a Non-catholic Christian by definition be required to go to purgatory, regardless of their good works here on earth?
Jon
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
I’ll PM you rather than derail this thread any more.
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St_Aloysius
Guest
Well, all those in purgatory are destined for heaven, right? If that’s so, then I should hope purification is completed by the Last Day! Ha, ha. And, what’s more, all suffering united with Christ is efficacious for salvation: so those suffering through the Tribulation would undergo purgatorial experiences of their own.
I admit, I don’t know the specifics. I’ve always hated apocalyptic discussions because of my former experience as a Protestant. I think it’s beautiful that Catholics are so ready to suffer, though.
Think of it, really: Fundamentalists who believe in the Rapture hope to be swept away just in time to leave to “wicked” to suffer torment. Catholics say, “Wait! Don’t leave me out! LET me suffer for you!” Out of the two, I know which I’m going with…
Great answers, guys!
And to the Baptist who commented earlier, I understand your intents and your beliefs, but you should at least give props to your Catholic brothers and sisters who are ready and willing to suffer for Christ! It may not be yours, but my experience as a Baptist made it hard for me to like the Rapture because I felt it dwelled too much on the punishment of the wicked and presumed us righteous enough (even now) to face God.
I hate to tell you, but I’m not righteous enough to face God right now! I sin, I like to sin. When I die, hopefully I’ll sin a lot less and excel in righteousness and be as one more fully united with my beloved Christ. But I’ll still like sin… and I’ll still need purifying. I don’t think myself ready to face him, to be honest–and if you do, that’s great! But you should examine your soul under fluorescent light and make a conscious effort to better yourself every day… That’s all Catholics are trying to do. That’s why we confess, why we need the grace offered via the sacraments, why we fall and get up again: So we will be as ready as possible.
That’s why we’re ready to suffer for him–and are excited about it even. It means growing closer to him in that we share in his own Sufferings, in his Passion.
“You have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’ it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ—if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him. I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us.” Rom. 8:15-18
“Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same intention (for whoever has suffered in the flesh has finished with sin).” 1 Pet. 4:1
I admit, I don’t know the specifics. I’ve always hated apocalyptic discussions because of my former experience as a Protestant. I think it’s beautiful that Catholics are so ready to suffer, though.
Think of it, really: Fundamentalists who believe in the Rapture hope to be swept away just in time to leave to “wicked” to suffer torment. Catholics say, “Wait! Don’t leave me out! LET me suffer for you!” Out of the two, I know which I’m going with…
Great answers, guys!
And to the Baptist who commented earlier, I understand your intents and your beliefs, but you should at least give props to your Catholic brothers and sisters who are ready and willing to suffer for Christ! It may not be yours, but my experience as a Baptist made it hard for me to like the Rapture because I felt it dwelled too much on the punishment of the wicked and presumed us righteous enough (even now) to face God.
I hate to tell you, but I’m not righteous enough to face God right now! I sin, I like to sin. When I die, hopefully I’ll sin a lot less and excel in righteousness and be as one more fully united with my beloved Christ. But I’ll still like sin… and I’ll still need purifying. I don’t think myself ready to face him, to be honest–and if you do, that’s great! But you should examine your soul under fluorescent light and make a conscious effort to better yourself every day… That’s all Catholics are trying to do. That’s why we confess, why we need the grace offered via the sacraments, why we fall and get up again: So we will be as ready as possible.
That’s why we’re ready to suffer for him–and are excited about it even. It means growing closer to him in that we share in his own Sufferings, in his Passion.
“You have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’ it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ—if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him. I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory about to be revealed to us.” Rom. 8:15-18
“Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same intention (for whoever has suffered in the flesh has finished with sin).” 1 Pet. 4:1
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
As a former Fundamentalist/Evangelical, all I have to say is “beautiful”.
Thank you for sharing that. :grouphug:
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