Rapturists. . . .

[reteeks21]

Personally, I think Tim LaHaye is a joke. He has made millions off of a myth, and then called people who questioned him delusional and dishonest historians. A careful, honest, and objective look at eschatology would show him that he is wrong.

 

[ralphinal]

Personally, I think Tim LaHaye is a joke. He has made millions off of a myth, and then called people who questioned him delusional and dishonest historians. A careful, honest, and objective look at eschatology would show him that he is wrong.

Amen

 

[reteeks21]

Amen

Since the ability to explain it is limited here, can you point me to a source that will explicitly explain the rcc’s position on the “end times”?

 

[bpbasilphx]

Personally, I think Tim LaHaye is a joke.

**Did you know that he and his wife Beverly of Concerned Women for America are pro-choicers?

In their book THE ACT OF MARRIAGE, they say they support abortion when it’s in the best interest of the mother or the unborn child.

How does this differ from the pro-death position?**

 

[ralphinal]

Since the ability to explain it is limited here, can you point me to a source that will explicitly explain the rcc’s position on the “end times”?

Catholic.com has some good info.

There are many books on the topic, including the Rapture Trap and Will Catholics be left Behind.

 

[With_Questions]

Does lack of belief in a rapture preclude one from it if it happens?

Just a couple of comments.

If you can read 1 Thessaloninas 4:13-18 and pretty well take it at fact value, then you believe in the rapture and thus are a “Rapturist”, even if you do not call it “The Rapture”.

The disagreement seems to me is when relative to all of the other stuff that takes place at the end of the age this event occurs.

I have not located the Scripture that says “Believe in the rapture according to and thou shalt be saved”, but maybe this Scripture can be found in some obscure chapter like Amos 10,

 

[cthulhubryan]

**Did you know that he and his wife Beverly of Concerned Women for America are pro-choicers?

In their book THE ACT OF MARRIAGE, they say they support abortion when it’s in the best interest of the mother or the unborn child.
**

Umm, excuse my ignorance but how does being ripped out of your mother’s womb and being torn limb from limb and discarded ever become something that is in the interest of the unborn child?

 

[cthulhubryan]

From my position as a Protestant becoming Catholic:

To my mind focusing on the Rapture (aka Le Haye) is just more PITS (Pie In The Sky) thinking and is an odd variant on some forms of liberation theology.

When I read the Bible I am not sure when/if the rapture comes but I do get a really good sense that we are not to overly worry about it.

We are to focus on our relationship with God and His Church and on bringing others into His Church and on trying to better the situation of our brothers and sisters on this world through sound personal, local, and national social policy.

If end times fiction is your thing, Joel C. Rosenberg’s series is much more interesting and has no bashing of non-fundamentalist protestants, Catholics, et al.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Since the ability to explain it is limited here, can you point me to a source that will explicitly explain the rcc’s position on the “end times”?

Carl Olson’s book, Will Catholics Be “Left Behind” is an easy and compelling read that describes both premillenialism and the Catholic teaching on the subject. It also does a pretty good job of explaining where Catholic and premillenialism are in sync and where they part ways.

We all believe in the Second Coming of Christ. Catholic teaching rejects the notion of a “secret” second coming in which the “church” is taken away separately before a tribulation, a 1,000 year reign, an armageddon, etc.

Rather, we are in the midst of the 1000 year reign (figurative time period) that will end with the Second Coming, followed immediately by the Last Judgment, after which God makes all things new and we will be with Him for eternity.

Amen!

Peace,
-Robert

 

[Feanor]

I and most Catholics, leave this up to God the Father and to Christ.

Revelations is not to be taken literally or analyzed as a play-by-play of what God plans. We are called to be ready and pray for His return.

If this happens in my lifetime I pray that I will be!

 

[mark_a]

honestly I don’t care if its pre mid post tribulation or whatever. We know Jesus will return. I await His return. It will be beyond my imagination anyhow. I meant before, that I don’t think Its a matter that determines salvation but simply a matter of something that will happen regardless of what you (or anyone) think.

For generations Jews awaited Jesus first arrival… and it was not what they expected. I figure the second will follow that trend… like a thief in the night. I don’t know the day or the hour or the position of it in relation to the Tribulation on a time line. I don’t need to know. I need only to be ready.

My pastor preached on it two weeks ago, He believes in a pre-Trib rapture. A lady raised her hand and when he acknowledged her she said “Pastor, I disagree with you!” and he said “Well, thats alright.” I guess they agree with me.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

 

[flaco40]

It seems to me that a few people are getting the rapture mixed up with religion or politics. As I understand it rapture just means " taken up", And don’t we all belive that we will be taken up at some point? I hope so. Any way I think where it gets dicey is the when of it. Some people seem to believe that the Church has one standing on it while others believe it has another. I am not sure that the magisterium has said anything one way or another? I’ll have to check the catechism. But This Tim Lahaye stuff just confuses the issue. People start thinking about fiction and they think that there is only this little option for what the rapture might be. I don’t care one way or another about fiction. I’m interested in Jesus and his plans. To say we as Catholics don’t think about what is going on around us just makes us sound ignorant. I’m Catholic and I think about Jesus a lot. If you love him why wouldn’t you? If you love someone you don’t just not think about the next time you will see them.

 

[jac1972]

It seems to me that a few people are getting the rapture mixed up with religion or politics. As I understand it rapture just means " taken up", And don’t we all belive that we will be taken up at some point? I hope so. Any way I think where it gets dicey is the when of it. Some people seem to believe that the Church has one standing on it while others believe it has another. I am not sure that the magisterium has said anything one way or another? I’ll have to check the catechism. But This Tim Lahaye stuff just confuses the issue. People start thinking about fiction and they think that there is only this little option for what the rapture might be. I don’t care one way or another about fiction. I’m interested in Jesus and his plans. To say we as Catholics don’t think about what is going on around us just makes us sound ignorant. I’m Catholic and I think about Jesus a lot. If you love him why wouldn’t you? If you love someone you don’t just not think about the next time you will see them.

I really like what you posted here. Let me start off by saying, I do believe in the rapture, but not so much the pre-trib raptue. There is more evidence pointing to post-trib than pre-trib. I am scared for a lot of pre-tribers. They are more vulnerable to lose their faith if they have to endure the tribulation. Also, a lot of them base their salvation on the pre-trib concept. VERY DANGEROUS.
My hope is in my Savior. If He comes before the trib, great. We won’t have to see the horrors of His wrath on this world. If it is mid or post, I am ready. If I am around to see it. We aren’t guaranteed our next breath.

I hope to talk to you all soon.
God bless all of you. Your brother in Yeshua.
Jason

 

[Callin]

I really like what you posted here. Let me start off by saying, I do believe in the rapture, but not so much the pre-trib raptue. There is more evidence pointing to post-trib than pre-trib. I am scared for a lot of pre-tribers. They are more vulnerable to lose their faith if they have to endure the tribulation. Also, a lot of them base their salvation on the pre-trib concept. VERY DANGEROUS.
My hope is in my Savior. If He comes before the trib, great. We won’t have to see the horrors of His wrath on this world. If it is mid or post, I am ready. If I am around to see it. We aren’t guaranteed our next breath.

I hope to talk to you all soon.
God bless all of you. Your brother in Yeshua.
Jason

My concern with any pre-tribulation rapture belief has always been this, and it’s basically what you said.

You believe you’ll be raptured before the tribulation happens. So you don’t prepare yourself for it. What if that interpretation’s wrong, though? The world get worse, the tribulation starts. You’re still here. You question your pre-trib belief more and more. You start to lose hope. You never expected this. And if you fail to see just why that interpretation went wrong, then you might just conclude the Bible itself is wrong, and start to question your faith as a whole.

But if you think it’ll happen right when Jesus returns, then you expect to go through everything, and prepare for everything. You’re ready to face whatever persecution might happen.

 

[flaco40]

Thank you this was the kind of (name removed by moderator)ut that I was looking for. And I agree that pre trib rapture just seems wrong, for the reasons put forth already but also because my relationship with Jesus hasn’t been that simple. Don’t get me wrong he does most of the work, but he expects me to show up! Jesus was God on earth which can be very soothing. But anyone who has read the Gospels also Knows that he was challenging. I think that God would not waste a perfectly good tribulation by taking everyone to heaven before he was finished with them.

 

[a_burger]

I was very shocked to hear someone say that those who believe in the pretribulation rapture will worship the antichrist. It sounds like those who believe in the pretribulation rapture are fools. Beware of people who speak like this. For the person who said this gird your loins. Have you ever read Matthew 5:22. Jesus says if you call your brother (adopted in the family of God) a fool you will be in danger of the fire of hell. Do not be influenced by these people. No matter what don’t ever call your Christian brother a fool.

While reading the comments on the rapture I’m saddened to see the lack of people quoting scripture or the tradional teachings of the church. It is what God thinks that counts. I would challenge each of you to search God’s word when speaking things of God.

Let me speak to the statement that people who believe in the pretribulation rapture will worship the antichrist. This statement is not logical. People who believe in the rapture would never worship the antichrist who rules on earth. They are looking for Christ in the sky and to be translated up in the wink of an eye. They would only worship the one who comes in the sky.

Ask the Holy Spirit to be your paraclete. The wisdom of man is foolishness to God. The prophecies of God are never figured out by man in advance. It is quite common for man to say so that’s how God accomplished that prophecy.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

You believe you’ll be raptured before the tribulation happens. So you don’t prepare yourself for it. What if that interpretation’s wrong, though? The world get worse, the tribulation starts. You’re still here. You question your pre-trib belief more and more. You start to lose hope. You never expected this. And if you fail to see just why that interpretation went wrong, then you might just conclude the Bible itself is wrong, and start to question your faith as a whole.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here…

So if the rapture happens after the tribulation, that the most likely outcome for pre-trib believers is that they keep thinking that as bad as things are, they’re not the tribulation because the rapture hasn’t happened yet. Then, when when Jesus returns and says the tribulation is already over, they’re pleasantly relieved that they’re wrong.

Your suggestion that someone might see the tribulation happening and conclude that the Bible is wrong doesn’t really follow, because if they’re identifying something as “the tribulation” they’re ascribing to a belief from the Bible.

 

[Callin]

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here…

So if the rapture happens after the tribulation, that the most likely outcome for pre-trib believers is that they keep thinking that as bad as things are, they’re not the tribulation because the rapture hasn’t happened yet. Then, when when Jesus returns and says the tribulation is already over, they’re pleasantly relieved that they’re wrong.

Your suggestion that someone might see the tribulation happening and conclude that the Bible is wrong doesn’t really follow, because if they’re identifying something as “the tribulation” they’re ascribing to a belief from the Bible.

If the post-trib view is right, then yes, some pre-trib believers will likely think that it hasn’t really begun yet, and yes, will be pleasantly surprised in the end. Others however, will likely have interpreted Revelation in ways which indicate the tribulation has surely started. What do they do?

The tribulation is supposed to be a time of unprecedented suffering. There will probably be enormous pressure for people to abandon Christianity, and any contradiction or uncertainty will make people especially vulnerable to this pressure. “Where’s your Jesus now?” “He should have taken me already!” “Then that must mean Jesus is a lie!” “But this is the tribulation mentioned in the Bible. The Bible was right about it!” “Come on! Christianity isn’t the first religion to predict the end, or to be wiped out! If it’s any different, then where’s the Savior you say should have come by now?”

Those people who cave into such pressure…I doubt they would be pleasantly surprised to see Jesus after abandoning him.

Of course, this is all speculation, but I still think it’s a bad idea to put too much faith in anything that the Bible’s not 100% clear on.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Of course, this is all speculation, but I still think it’s a bad idea to put too much faith in anything that the Bible’s not 100% clear on.

I think there’s a certain degree of wisdom in that statement. Similarly, about those Marian Doctrines…

 

[sambos671]

I think the consept behind the rapture is that if you are a Born Again christian with a relationship with God whether you are a pretrib, premillenialist, rapturist or not is irrelevant. You will be raptured because, your “oil lamp will” be full