Wow, what university offer an advanced degree in mind-reading and the revelation of hidden motivation? When I minored in it at the state college, I’d get hobbled by rash judgment all the time, so changed my discipline to other charisms.
Fortunately that abuse was from 15 years ago, the priest is likely retired
. The other was from a couple of years ago, but he has been reassigned.The new translation of the Missal (coming with Advent this year) makes it clear that the Church wants to keep the requirement of the XXI Ecumenical council: the Liturgy should be under strict control of the Apostolic See, and translations had to be approved by the National Conferences of the Bishops and by the Apostolic See. Self improvisations are clearly deny this power.
Not that big of a deal. Obviously it shouldn’t be done but its nothing too serious.
Let’s be clear: he has not invalidated the Eucharist with that wording. However, he has caused confusion amongst the faithful and that is a big problem.
Seriously? May I ask what is accomplished by dredging up some irregularity from fifteen years ago? If this has remained in someone’s memory and festered for that long, I have to wonder what the focus is during the Mass: worship, or self-appointed liturgical watchdog. I find the whole idea of “rating liturgical abuses” as offensive and misplaced. I’ve seen too many accusations on these boards of so-called “liturgical abuses” which turned out to be approved variations or less-used and unfamiliar Eucharistic Prayers.Fortunately that abuse was from 15 years ago, the priest is likely retired
This is more in line with what I struggle with, are we there to worship or nit-pick at the mistakes mortal men make during the Liturgy? Priests after all are imperfect, am I supposed to lose respect for these men and report them to the Bishop because they don’t do every little thing perhaps as they should? The Mass is still valid, thus it comes full circle to my original question, illicit vs. invalid.
This is something I think many struggle with, but here are some points that might help you. I don’t intend to mean-spirited, just frank and open with you. I hope this helps you.
You misunderstand me. I am not condemning anyone nor claiming to read anyone’s thoughts. I am sure that you know, as I do, numerous priests who make dozens of these little unauthorised “improvements” to EVERY Mass they celebrate - sometimes the same ones every time, sometimes a different varuiation every time. They cannot possibly be just unintentional slips of the tongue. Do you have any alternative explanation than that the priest thinks that it’s his job to “entertain” the parishioners by giving them a different and more “relevant” Mass??Wow, what university offer an advanced degree in mind-reading and the revelation of hidden motivation? When I minored in it at the state college, I’d get hobbled by rash judgment all the time, so changed my discipline to other charisms.
You misunderstand me. I am not condemning anyone nor claiming to read anyone’s thoughts. I am sure that you know, as I do, numerous priests who make dozens of these little unauthorised “improvements” to EVERY Mass they celebrate - sometimes the same ones every time, sometimes a different varuiation every time. They cannot possibly be just unintentional slips of the tongue. Do you have any alternative explanation than that the priest thinks that it’s his job to “entertain” the parishioners by giving them a different and more “relevant” Mass??Wow, what university offer an advanced degree in mind-reading and the revelation of hidden motivation? When I minored in it at the state college, I’d get hobbled by rash judgment all the time, so changed my discipline to other charisms.
Wow. This is a very good point. I never thought about it in this way, but it makes sense.
You seem to be jumping the gun. Your first course of action is to have the common courtesy to talk to the priests first to find out why they did what they did or said what they said. What you think may be an abuse may not be and you owe them the chance to tell you. Haven’t you heard of presumption of innocence??
Thanks. I’m glad it helped you.
From De Defectibus,
So, for example, if instead of saying “Hoc est enim Corpus Meum” he were to say “Hoc est enim Corpus Meum tantum pro servis*,” even though the “Hoc est Corpus Meum” is in the consecration it probably wouldn’t be a valid consecration.
You’re kidding, right? Jesus said that whenever two or more gather in His name, He is present. He said nothing about the form of words to be used. Based on the evidence in the Gospels, do you honestly think that He would strictly insist on particular words being uttered before revealing Himself through the Eucharist to people gathered in good faith? Puhlease.
And how are we supposed to know if there’s a valid consecration or not? Didn’t He Himself use specific words to convey that knowledge and intent? Or would the Apostles have figured it out for themselves without His words?
Yes, I honestly believe that, because that’s what the church teaches. You are sounding very protestant.
There are several reasons for the distinction between validity and liceity:
Nonsense - as a faithful Catholic you have a right to a licit and valid Mass. If the priest does NOT offer Mass in a licit manner in accordance with the approved texts, rubrics and allowed variations you have both a right and obligation to demand it. You are under no obligation to check with him first.
That is so often forgotten in these discussions. Although many do not like faithful priests, and may deploy their typical liberal whine and scream trash, at least the complaints of people against faithful priests are always unfounded complaints.