RC vs EC

[Halyna]

I am having a very difficult time re RC vs EC.
I’m Ukrainian Catholic. Born & raised. Very strong in my faith
I was chastised by RC Franciscan nuns in high school for crossing myself the wrong way (which in fact is the right way), The same nuns made me leave church one day (my girlfriend & I went to each others churches to participate in Marys May day and I was told to leave the RC church because of the ?seating? arrangements).
Years later I became a secular Franciscan and was kicked out because Mother Superior did not understand my ‘respect’ for her position.
Its not just me…my brother was suspended from school ( he was a straight A student, very quiet) because…he does odd things in church (when the monstrance was out for exposition, he got on his knees and on his knees crawled to his seat).

By all these, now, my own children, one will not go to church at all… the other will never step foot in an RC church for fear of chastisement.

I will suffer persecution in RC church (I had no EC church near by) but what can I do about my children?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Find a parish that will respect your Liturgical tradition.

Although the rule is, “when in Rome…” so you should abide by Roman traditions when in a RC parish.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

If your child will not set foot in a Roman Catholic Church out of fear of “persecution” it is because YOU taught them to fear that.

You know full well how the RC church does things, if you choose to do them differently, then you CHOOSE to call attention to yourself. It has nothing to do with how you were raised, it has entirely to do with the choices that you make.

Would you expect a Roman Catholic to come to a Ukrainian Rite Church repeatedly and refuse to follow the practices of that Church? Do you not think that the Priest or Deacon would approach that person and ask them to please conform to the practices that this Church is used to?

Would you consider a Latin Rite Catholic to be rude, if they insisted on consistently following the rituals that THEY were raised in, while attending a Ukrainian Rite Church?

Would the Priest of a Ukrainian Rite Church think that a Latin Rite Catholic that came to that church for Mass over a period of months and years was being more than a bit disrespectful if they refused to conform to the Ukrainian Rite form of liturgy?

There is no ‘RIGHT’ way to make the sign of the cross. What is important is NOT if one touches the right shoulder first, or the left, but that they MAKE THE SIGN OF THE CROSS AT ALL.

If you are truly so unhappy attending Mass (and other services) in a Latin Rite Church, then you always have the choice to move closer to where an Eastern Catholic service is
available to you.

Until that time, then the old adage holds: “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” To do otherwise is to show disrespect for the church, and for the services, that you attend.

 

[ibo]

I am having a very difficult time re RC vs EC.
I’m Ukrainian Catholic. Born & raised. Very strong in my faith
I was chastised by RC Franciscan nuns in high school for crossing myself the wrong way (which in fact is the right way), The same nuns made me leave church one day (my girlfriend & I went to each others churches to participate in Marys May day and I was told to leave the RC church because of the ?seating? arrangements).
Years later I became a secular Franciscan and was kicked out because Mother Superior did not understand my ‘respect’ for her position.
Its not just me…my brother was suspended from school ( he was a straight A student, very quiet) because…he does odd things in church (when the monstrance was out for exposition, he got on his knees and on his knees crawled to his seat).

By all these, now, my own children, one will not go to church at all… the other will never step foot in an RC church for fear of chastisement.

I will suffer persecution in RC church (I had no EC church near by) but what can I do about my children?

You are taking things too much hard. I cam from Africa to Europe when I was 9 years old and I had a hard time with nuns and priests. Do not believe nuns are saints and priests are saints too. They have so many faults as ordinary people do.

And then nuns are women. And women pay much attention to details more than men. something that is amiss, for some of them, is a tragedy. Both my sisters and my sister-in-law attended nuns’ school and they have a lot of stories.

I get along very well with nuns for I am a man and I do not pay any attention to their little tragedies: if the flowers were in the right place, whether people did things on the traditional way, whether this and that. I just do what they want or, if it is too much, I simply forget and suffer their complaints.

I think that you are dealing with strict congregations so you have to make a list of all their rules and just follow them. Do not think whether they are right or wrong. Just do it.

Forget the Rite where you came from. Just do what others do and that’s ok.

I am a teacher in Europe and I had some Ukrainian students. Good students I will tell. I liked them very much. But I felt that they were not too adaptable, too introvert. It seems they were missing their own country, language, religion. Other foreign students adapted better.

So, try to be flexible, do not take too hard those expulsions, tell your kids to be smart, to just look around and very fast, see the rules, see where they are, the community habits, “ticks”, customs, stereotypes and play with it. It is fun. For each community has its mad rules.

In my country we drink everywhere. Once, I was in New York Bus Station, and with nothing to do, I read the regulation, which were longer than a grocery list. And I saw one that said that you cannot drink in public!!! I was dumbfounded. See if had a beer in my hand which is normal in my country, sorry, in Europe, I would be in trouble with police. The other day I was strolling in the town where I was in Connecticut and saw a Church. As I do in Europe, I asked gently to the lady who was washing the windows: “May I see the Church, please?” She stopped and looked at me, up to down. I thought she did not understand (my English is so and so), so I repeated the request. She shouted at me as if I were a criminal: “Take your hat off”. I was surprised that she thought I would enter the Church with an hat, something my aunties taught me since I was 4 years old not to do.

I learnt that that is the way it is and I laugh at that and do not get offended. Of course, in America, I always read the fine print for … you never know …

 

[IrishRush]

You are taking things too much hard. I cam from Africa to Europe when I was 9 years old and I had a hard time with nuns and priests. Do not believe nuns are saints and priests are saints too. They have so many faults as ordinary people do.

And then nuns are women. And women pay much attention to details more than men. something that is amiss, for some of them, is a tragedy. Both my sisters and my sister-in-law attended nuns’ school and they have a lot of stories.

I get along very well with nuns for I am a man and I do not pay any attention to their little tragedies: if the flowers were in the right place, whether people did things on the traditional way, whether this and that. I just do what they want or, if it is too much, I simply forget and suffer their complaints.

I think that you are dealing with strict congregations so you have to make a list of all their rules and just follow them. Do not think whether they are right or wrong. Just do it.

Forget the Rite where you came from. Just do what others do and that’s ok.

I am a teacher in Europe and I had some Ukrainian students. Good students I will tell. I liked them very much. But I felt that they were not too adaptable, too introvert. It seems they were missing their own country, language, religion. Other foreign students adapted better.

So, try to be flexible, do not take too hard those expulsions, tell your kids to be smart, to just look around and very fast, see the rules, see where they are, the community habits, “ticks”, customs, stereotypes and play with it. It is fun. For each community has its mad rules.

In my country we drink everywhere. Once, I was in New York Bus Station, and with nothing to do, I read the regulation, which were longer than a grocery list. And I saw one that said that you cannot drink in public!!! I was dumbfounded. See if had a beer in my hand which is normal in my country, sorry, in Europe, I would be in trouble with police. The other day I was strolling in the town where I was in Connecticut and saw a Church. As I do in Europe, I asked gently to the lady who was washing the windows: “May I see the Church, please?” She stopped and looked at me, up to down. I thought she did not understand (my English is so and so), so I repeated the request. She shouted at me as if I were a criminal: “Take your hat off”. I was surprised that she thought I would enter the Church with an hat, something my aunties taught me since I was 4 years old not to do.

I learnt that that is the way it is and I laugh at that and do not get offended. Of course, in America, I always read the fine print for … you never know …

Ibo, your advice is more profound than you realize. It’s wonderful advice. People in general would be wise to follow, not just “strangers in a strange land.” In fact, it’s something I need to do better myself. One other way that is expressed, especially in the south in America, is “Don’t sweat the small stuff.”
Blessings!

 

[runningdude]

I am having a very difficult time re RC vs EC.
I’m Ukrainian Catholic. Born & raised. Very strong in my faith
I was chastised by RC Franciscan nuns in high school for crossing myself the wrong way (which in fact is the right way), The same nuns made me leave church one day (my girlfriend & I went to each others churches to participate in Marys May day and I was told to leave the RC church because of the ?seating? arrangements).
Years later I became a secular Franciscan and was kicked out because Mother Superior did not understand my ‘respect’ for her position.
Its not just me…my brother was suspended from school ( he was a straight A student, very quiet) because…he does odd things in church (when the monstrance was out for exposition, he got on his knees and on his knees crawled to his seat).

By all these, now, my own children, one will not go to church at all… the other will never step foot in an RC church for fear of chastisement.

I will suffer persecution in RC church (I had no EC church near by) but what can I do about my children?

I’m stumped about how an Eastern Catholic stuck in your position would approach the Latin liturgy, especially how to raise your children with eastern spirituality. Maybe you could scout out a few parishes first, and speak to the pastor about how to express your traditions within a Latin parish. Maybe have the priest meet with your whole family to address their fears and concerns.

Eastern Catholics have a right to celebrate their faith according to their particular right; you shouldn’t have to fear reprisal or being kicked out of mass because you’re not celebrating things correctly.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m stumped about how an Eastern Catholic stuck in your position would approach the Latin liturgy, especially how to raise your children with eastern spirituality. Maybe you could scout out a few parishes first, and speak to the pastor about how to express your traditions within a Latin parish. Maybe have the priest meet with your whole family to address their fears and concerns.

Eastern Catholics have a right to celebrate their faith according to their particular right; you shouldn’t have to fear reprisal or being kicked out of mass because you’re not celebrating things correctly.

Wait, we can’t force our traditions onto another rite. If we’re in an RC parish we should “do as the Romans do.” The same way that RCs should not be kneeling during consecration or when receiving communion in an Eastern parish just because they are RC. Its one thing to be free from persecution, its another to practice your traditions where they should not be practiced.

 

[Vico]

I am having a very difficult time re RC vs EC.
I’m Ukrainian Catholic. Born & raised. Very strong in my faith
I was chastised by RC Franciscan nuns in high school for crossing myself the wrong way (which in fact is the right way), The same nuns made me leave church one day (my girlfriend & I went to each others churches to participate in Marys May day and I was told to leave the RC church because of the ?seating? arrangements).
Years later I became a secular Franciscan and was kicked out because Mother Superior did not understand my ‘respect’ for her position.
Its not just me…my brother was suspended from school ( he was a straight A student, very quiet) because…he does odd things in church (when the monstrance was out for exposition, he got on his knees and on his knees crawled to his seat).

By all these, now, my own children, one will not go to church at all… the other will never step foot in an RC church for fear of chastisement.

I will suffer persecution in RC church (I had no EC church near by) but what can I do about my children?

I am sorry you have been mistreated. Many in the Latin Church are intolerant, mainly because they do not have an understanding of the eastern Catholic churches. If you are a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church because your father was also, then you have a right to be helped by the Eparch where you live to establish a new parish, or the get you some support for following your eastern tradition. You can contact the Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy and explain your situation. (But in case you have Ruthenian (Carpathian) heritage, then contact the Byzantine Catholic Church.)

If your are in Canada

1) Ukrainian Greek CC:
archeparchy.ca/
Metropolitan Archeparchy of Winnipeg, CAN
Eparchy of Toronto and Eastern Canada, CAN
Eparchy of Saskatoon, CAN
Eparchy of Edmonton, CAN
Eparchy of New Westminster, CAN

2) Slovak Greek CC:
eparchy.blogspot.com/
Eparchy of Saints Cyril and Methodius of Toronto, CAN

If you are in the USA

1) Ukrainian Greek CC:
ukrarcheparchy.us/
Metropolitan Archeparchy of Philadelphia, USA
Eparchy of Saint Josaphat in Parma, USA
Eparchy of Saint Nicholas of Chicago, USA
Eparchy of Stamford, USA

2) Byzantine CC (also Croatian, Hungarian, Slovak):
archeparchy.org/
Metropolitan Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, USA
Eparchy of Parma, USA
Eparchy of Passaic, USA
Eparchy of Van Nuys, USA

byzcath.org/index.php/resources-mainmenu-63/list-of-eparchies-mainmenu-93

 

[runningdude]

Wait, we can’t force our traditions onto another rite. If we’re in an RC parish we should “do as the Romans do.” The same way that RCs should not be kneeling during consecration or when receiving communion in an Eastern parish just because they are RC. Its one thing to be free from persecution, its another to practice your traditions where they should not be practiced.

I recommended he speak to his priest about how to appropriate live his spirituality within a Latin parish, rather than live in fear of persecution or causing offense.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I recommended he speak to his priest about how to appropriate live his spirituality within a Latin parish, rather than live in fear of persecution or causing offense.

Honestly its hard to do. You certainly cannot do it during Mass. Then everything else is personal prayer time. Its not like the RC priest will start celebrating Vespers and Matins for the OP.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Honestly its hard to do. You certainly cannot do it during Mass. Then everything else is personal prayer time. Its not like the RC priest will start celebrating Vespers and Matins for the OP.

I’ve thought about talking to the pastor at the local RC parish about the need to celebrate Vespers and Matins. LOL!

I mean, 7pm sunday mass is pretty sketchy. Hahahaa.

 

[Hesychios]

I’ve thought about talking to the pastor at the local RC parish about the need to celebrate Vespers and Matins. LOL!

I mean, 7pm sunday mass is pretty sketchy. Hahahaa.

Although I think it would be good for the parish, I think you will have better luck associating with a monastery. It has not been a western parish tradition for hundreds of years and your idea will probably not get much traction.

When I was in the situation I connected with an oblate program.

 

[joeantony]

Hi All,

I read the comments from the Latin Rite followers asking everybody else to conform to the same tradition and practices because you are in a RC. It is reasonable to advise or suggest to follow the practices of RC while in a RC. However RC do not have to be rude. I belong to the Syro Malabar Rite, very different in liturgical form from Latin Rite. We also stand during the Consecration. I also attend Latin Rite mass and I happily follow their customs during the Latin Rite Mass.

However it will be rude to insist someone only to make the sign of the Cross in a particular way or asking them to do everything only in a particular way just because they may not have another Church of their own Rite nearby. After all Catholic Church values, respects and preserves tradition. Latin Church suffered most by going little too modern.

It is not a grave sin if we admit that , yes, sometimes RC (I mean Latin Rite) exert a kind of supremacy. Well, I could be wrong, it is just my opinion. May be major RC crowd ( I don’t mean the church authorities) is little ignorant of the much more active, alive and “conforming to the tradition” catholic churches that make the universal church a true Catholic Church.

Showing compassion and to be accommodating is a good thing, if any nuns or priests lack in that, it could be due to ignorance or lack of understanding. But as a lay person so much that you can do.

However , I am still saying that there is nothing wrong in being a bit flexible. Also I don’t blame you if you feel offended or “attacked” considering all the instances mentioned in the first post !

Joe