RCC difficult to join

[tcraig]

We didn’t want to be the only two people to be received into the Church at Easter Vigil … It was explained to us that joining at Easter Vigil would be a “big deal” and my wife and I didn’t want all that attention.

Well, I’m sorry, but you yourself have delayed your own entry into the Church. It shouldn’t have mattered that you were the only two … smaller parishes often have only one joining at Easter Vigil. This was the case for my son. My husband and I were received into the Church during the month of November during a regular Wednesday weeknight mass; we were the only ones then, too.

I think you worried too much about any “attention” you might have received. Receiving new members into the Church is expected at the Easter Vigil, and is a cause for celebration. People would have congratulated you after mass, but then life would have returned to normal.

You’re now in a “you’ve made your own bed now lie in it” situation. Figure out when you can reasonably join the Church, and stop worrying about whether anyone else is going to be up there with you. If you had just bucked up, you would have received First Confession and First Holy Communion already.

 

[theAuthor]

Well, I’m sorry, but you yourself have delayed your own entry into the Church. It shouldn’t have mattered that you were the only two … smaller parishes often have only one joining at Easter Vigil. This was the case for my son. My husband and I were received into the Church during the month of November during a regular Wednesday weeknight mass; we were the only ones then, too.

I think you worried too much about any “attention” you might have received. Receiving new members into the Church is expected at the Easter Vigil, and is a cause for celebration. People would have congratulated you after mass, but then life would have returned to normal.

You’re now in a “you’ve made your own bed now lie in it” situation. Figure out when you can reasonably join the Church, and stop worrying about whether anyone else is going to be up there with you. If you had just bucked up, you would have received First Confession and First Holy Communion already.

I do see your point. But remember my wife still doesn’t even know when to sit/stand/kneel, say most of the prayers at Mass and until recently was totally an AOG Penticostal. The liturgy is complicated at first. You go through that whole period of just copying what everyone else does. It’s nerve racking. I love her and can understand her terror. She is scared enough just going to Mass, and is always asking about the “Catholic Aerobics” as she calls it. So that leaves me. Would they even have wanted to have one one new member received (as in I doubt with this Parish they would have bothered with the pomp and ceremony for just one). I don’t actually know why it was not arranged for just me to join at Easter, it was just never mentioned. I know that part of it is a public declaration of faith, but am under the impression that Easter Vigil is one of those occasions where even the twice a year Catholics go. In other words it would have been a BIG Mass.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

davidarlette:

I know “all” the teachings and accept them so let’s go there… I expected having gone through years of Catechesis to simply be received into the RCC, but was told I had to do the RCIA. What has happened is that things I used to accept as fact (Apostolic Succession, Infallibility of the Pope, the Churche’s concern for the poor) have all come into question since doing the RCIA.

So good thing you had the opportunity to examine your understanding of “all the teachings” you thought you knew as well as those that you could wholeheartedly accept. RCIA gives you as much time as you need to make a fully informed decision. It does not force you or rush you.
davidarlette:

I have looked into history, since my sponsor is a history buff, and found things to be not so clear-cut as I once though.

Your sources for these histories please?
davidarlette:

She also insists that all other Churches are false since the RCC is the “One True Church.”

What did she say exactly? What does the Church say exactly? Is there a difference between what she says and what the Church says?
davidarlette:

We also strongly dislike being called converts.

Fair enough. Just ask folks to call you Catholics if you have been received.
davidarlette:

is Catholicism a different religion altogether to the AOG?

What is your belief about this?
davidarlette:

Another thing we dislike is being called protestants, since we have never had any ill-feeling towards the RCC, and were not involved in the Reformation.

If you accepted Protestant teachings then you didn’t have to be alive during the Reformation. Did you accept Protestant teachings?
davidarlette:

With my history, if I still have to jump through a million hoops to be received (despite my preist mentor saying I was ready 5 years ago), how are we expected to gain any new members for the RCC?

The new members of the Church should be joining the Church – not finding reasons to disagree with it. It is more about respecting your free will enough to provide you with opportunities to examine your understandings, ask question, and make informed choices – and not so much about jumping through hoops.

Are you expected to gain new members for the RCC? Who said this? I would expect you would do better by steeping yourself in the nourishment of your new Faith for a fair bit of time than recruiting for the RCC.
davidarlette:

One more thing:We are told to go to Mass, but cannot receive the Eucharist, despite believing in the Real Prescence, and that hurts.

Yes. It does hurt. Receiving the Eucharist means being in communion with Jesus and the Church which He established on Earth. Until you are received into the Church – which means that you accept Church teachings – and have received Absolution, you are not in communion with Jesus and the Church.
davidarlette:

I also wish to make a good cofession and cannot do that either until just before being received into the Church.

Discuss this with a priest.
davidarlette:

SO why do we confess to a preist at all?

Did you say the following?
davidarlette:

I know “all” the teachings and accept them…

 

[Ani_Ibi]

davidarlette:

If it takes so long to learn (and this is anger talking now, sorry), maybe it is more complicated than Jesus intended it to be.

How might you go about finding out for sure how Jesus intended it to be? It is we who are complicated. We have the questions. We have the hesitations. We are the ones who need as much time as it takes. God does not force. God does not rush. God does not trick. RCIA time is a gift so that you can be sure about your decision either to join the Church or not to join the Church.
davidarlette:

Traditionally, Catholicism has been transmitted intergenerationally by large families such as in Ireland, and so one is brought up in the faith as you were.

The Church was built on the basis of converts. That is part of our Tradition.
davidarlette:

So like it or not, the Calvinist down the road who is anti-Catholic is Catholic so far as he believes what the Church teaches.

The Church is a community. It is more than ideas. It is relationship. An anti-Catholic is not a Catholic. These two terms are contradictory.
davidarlette:

He will not believe in some doctrines/dogmas and so lacks the fullness of Truth, but his church is not* false*, for it has some truth (say the Nicene creed), but lacks the fullness and beauty of the Lord’s real prescence in the Eucharist.

Some precepts taught by other churches are not able to be substantiated. However, some precepts they hold in common with the Church. Attention is better spent at this time discerning what you believe and not what other churches believe.

 

[tcraig]

I do see your point. But remember my wife still doesn’t even know when to sit/stand/kneel, say most of the prayers at Mass and until recently was totally an AOG Penticostal. The liturgy is complicated at first. You go through that whole period of just copying what everyone else does. It’s nerve racking. I love her and can understand her terror. She is scared enough just going to Mass, and is always asking about the “Catholic Aerobics” as she calls it. So that leaves me. Would they even have wanted to have one one new member received (as in I doubt with this Parish they would have bothered with the pomp and ceremony for just one). I don’t actually know why it was not arranged for just me to join at Easter, it was just never mentioned. I know that part of it is a public declaration of faith, but am under the impression that Easter Vigil is one of those occasions where even the twice a year Catholics go. In other words it would have been a BIG Mass.

Yes, Easter is a “big mass” but not everyone attends the Easter Vigil. People with young children often prefer to just attend Sunday morning during normal mass times. And a lot of people don’t like to attend Easter Vigil Mass because they know the new converts are being received, which makes for a longer mass! So not everyone attends Easter Vigil Mass, just like not everyone attends Midnight Mass.

It’s not really a big deal to just have only one person join at the Easter Vigil, and I think you’re exaggerating the “pomp and ceremony” that accompanies it. It’s just an “extra” part of the Mass - if there’s someone/many joining it’s done, if not it’s skipped.

As for mass being complicated on when to sit/stand/kneel - while I understand your wife’s confusion, I haven’t yet met a priest (even the goofy ones who abuse the liturgy) who wouldn’t tell a person what to do when necessary. You’re told when to come forward, what to say, etc. You won’t/wouldn’t have been left hanging.

If you and your wife are ready to join the Church, and have done what is necessary in order to do so, just do it. And stop worrying about all the “externals”.

 

[theAuthor]

As for history, look up the following:

1. Name one secular eye-witness historian who wrote of Jesus’ ministry.
2. When do you think the first Bishop of Rome was? (clue:it wasn’t Peter, even though I agree that Jesus left him as leader, try in the 300’s).
3. Even amongst Catholic books and scholars the authorship of the Gospels and time of writing is disputed. I have read everything (in Catholic literature and web pages) that they were written by the Apostles themselves, to followers of the Apostles, to followers of followers of the Apostles. Most websites disagreed with the RCIA text we were given “At Home With God’s People.” at least in terms of dates. Even on this site you will find phrases I am sure like “most biblical historians”
4. Did you know that the RCC accepts (theistic) evolution?

She said the Catholic Church is the One True Church, so all other churches are false. What she says is a corollary of the “One True Church” heading in the CCC, if you didn’t read the rest of the paragraph. I see the church as saying all Trinitarian Baptised are brothers in Christ. There is a BIG difference there between the love shown in the CCC and our sponsor’s prejudice against prots. She even said, that they only put “separated brethren” in there to be nice, like as a courtesy! The CCC says that all persons are in some way or another ordered to the one true Church, so even an antiCatholic prot is Catholic as far as he believes what the Church Teaches. The CCC teaches that other churches have some Truth, and since God is the source of all truth, have some value, but that only the RCC has the Fullness of truth. To me, if someone has communion as a memorialist, what they are doing is not wrong, but it is a weak shadow of the Eucharist in the RCC.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

davidarlette:

But remember my wife still doesn’t even know when to sit/stand/kneel, say most of the prayers at Mass and until recently was totally an AOG Penticostal.

These things take time to learn and in any case are not fundamental to her joining the Church. Giving herself time to learn them however might make her somewhat more comfortable with the whole process.
davidarlette:

The liturgy is complicated at first. You go through that whole period of just copying what everyone else does. It’s nerve racking.

Well it’s humbling.
davidarlette:

Would they even have wanted to have one one new member received (as in I doubt with this Parish they would have bothered with the pomp and ceremony for just one).

The pomp and ceremony? Is that what this represents to you? That pomp and ceremony represents your joining with the prayers of the whole Church both geographically and historically. It might be very reassuring for you to ask about how the liturgy came about, what the elements mean, what is their historical origin.
davidarlette:

I… under the impression that Easter Vigil is one of those occasions where even the twice a year Catholics go. In other words it would have been a BIG Mass.

Yes. It is huge. The bishop asks you questions, welcomes you. You get to see the lines of folks going up to be received. And wonder about their lives, what brought them along this journey. (And not feel alone) People in the Church are praying quietly for you, happy for you, happy for your presence. But there is no embarrassing of you. No violation of your space or your dignity. It is very respectful. Not to worry on that score.

Take the time you need. See your priest – or a priest – about confession. Try to enjoy undestanding the Faith. If you have made up your mind – even just to yourself – to accept Jesus, then you have already undergone the Baptism of Desire. Not to worry on that score.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

davidarlette:

As for history, look up the following:

If you have a point to make, please be kind enough to put it forward while providing your own evidence and references.
davidarlette:

1. Name one secular eye-witness historian who wrote of Jesus’ ministry.

Ah! So you are teaching us? Perhaps starting another thread with a more specific title might be a really good gesture on your part at this point.

 

[theAuthor]

So good thing you had the opportunity to examine your understanding of “all the teachings” you thought you knew as well as those that you could wholeheartedly accept. RCIA gives you as much time as you need to make a fully informed decision. It does not force you or rush you.

Your sources for these histories please?

What did she say exactly? What does the Church say exactly? Is there a difference between what she says and what the Church says?

Fair enough. Just ask folks to call you Catholics if you have been received.

What is your belief about this?

If you accepted Protestant teachings then you didn’t have to be alive during the Reformation. Did you accept Protestant teachings?

The new members of the Church should be joining the Church – not finding reasons to disagree with it. It is more about respecting your free will enough to provide you with opportunities to examine your understandings, ask question, and make informed choices – and not so much about jumping through hoops.

Are you expected to gain new members for the RCC? Who said this? I would expect you would do better by steeping yourself in the nourishment of your new Faith for a fair bit of time than recruiting for the RCC.

Yes. It does hurt. Receiving the Eucharist means being in communion with Jesus and the Church which He established on Earth. Until you are received into the Church – which means that you accept Church teachings – and have received Absolution, you are not in communion with Jesus and the Church.

Discuss this with a priest.

Did you say the following?

Gain new members for the Church? Jesus said it. He said go out and make disciples. My faith is not new. Well, its about 10 years old, anyway. When we were married I went with my wife to the church she grew up in out of love for her.

Yes, I did accept some protestant teachings, but read your Catechsim, it says not to hold this against me. They were not heretical though, if that’s what you mean, just the Creed, stuff like that. CCC says the separation caused there (1500’s) cannot be pinned on prots today(Para 818 in CCC) unless they know that the RCC is the One True Church…which I do, and want to join.

Yes, I did say that I am quite familiar with the teachings of the RCC, notice I had “all” in quotes, to denote that I do not think I am a super-Catholic, but I know more than many Catholics I know, and being the only religious person in my family I get asked questions. People *ask me *questions about Catholicism. Am I expected to hide my light under a bushel?

There is One True Church, reread that bit of your CCC (esp para 819 of CCC), and you will see that yes indeed, even a penticostal or Calvinist is as catholic as they believe in Her teachings. That’s because there *IS only *one true church. We are also to seek Christian unity by theo dialogue and fraternal knowlegde of each other (CCC para 821). So yes, that is part of my role, since God has chosen to gift me in that area.

Many precepts of the Catholic church have little or no Scriptural foundation and require faith in the Tradition and Magisterium, so before criticising your Christian brothers at least admit they try to use Scripture to do the right thing.

Politely, can you see that I do in fact know my faith now?

 

[theAuthor]

If you have a point to make, please be kind enough to put it forward while providing your own evidence and references.

Ah! So you are teaching us? Perhaps starting another thread with a more specific title might be a really good gesture on your part at this point.

I have no intention of writing a treatise when there are plenty on the web. I would trust here more than Wikipedia, but maybe go there and type a couple of keywords. Or hang on, I’ll post a link.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope :

Early bishops occupying the See of Rome were designated Vicar of Peter; for later Popes the more authoritative Vicar of Christ was substituted; this designation was first used by the Roman Synod of 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius I, an advocate of papal supremacy among the patriarchs. Marcellinus (d. 304) is the first Bishop of Rome whom sources show used the title of Pope. In the 11th century,Gregory VII declared the term “Pope” to be reserved for the Bishop of Rome. The current Pope is Benedict XVI

As for Q2, there is none. There were some secondary sources refering to Jesus followers, but not his miracles, etc. I was debating atheists at the time who were arguing Jesus didn’t exist, let alone do miracles, so I looked HARD!

 

[theAuthor]

These things take time to learn and in any case are not fundamental to her joining the Church. Giving herself time to learn them however might make her somewhat more comfortable with the whole process.

Well it’s humbling.

The pomp and ceremony? Is that what this represents to you? That pomp and ceremony represents your joining with the prayers of the whole Church both geographically and historically. It might be very reassuring for you to ask about how the liturgy came about, what the elements mean, what is their historical origin.

Yes. It is huge. The bishop asks you questions, welcomes you. You get to see the lines of folks going up to be received. And wonder about their lives, what brought them along this journey. (And not feel alone) People in the Church are praying quietly for you, happy for you, happy for your presence. But there is no embarrassing of you. No violation of your space or your dignity. It is very respectful. Not to worry on that score.

Take the time you need. See your priest – or a priest – about confession. Try to enjoy undestanding the Faith. If you have made up your mind – even just to yourself – to accept Jesus, then you have already undergone the Baptism of Desire. Not to worry on that score.

Don’t worry about it, we are on a different page. There was not going to be any line of people, everyone else backed out. I am already baptised, I think I did say Candidate didn’t I? If you aren’t going to listen, don’t worry about it.

I have already said the preist refuses to hear my confession until a few days before Confirmation.

I think the condescending tone makes it pretty clear that many Catholics just start by assuming they know much more than you do. News flash: I lap religious stuff up. Some even talk of there being no faith without healthy doubt.

Oh well, looks like I study the Early Church Fathers, ecclesiolgy and Catholic theology for a few years and maybe then, if I am lucky, I can join the club. I am starting to lose the warmth and affection I once had for the RCC after meeting these people. They are just as biggotted as my AOG Pastor in-laws! What more am I supposed to know, seriously?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

A few more years??? After five years???

Might I make a couple very simple suggestions?

You are not bound to one parish or the other, are you? Australia is a big place. There should be priests galore, parishes galore.

And what happened to these priests with whom you lived? Could they not better direct you?

And have you approached your local bishop and chancery, or are you dealing with a committee of lay people in one parish who have set up their very own requirements, beyond what is mandated? Better check on that. Sometimes, they even outtalk their parish priest, who might be afraid to upset them.

And by the way- those who are already validly baptized do NOT have to be received at the Easter Vigil.

 

[theAuthor]

A few more years??? After five years???

Might I make a couple very simple suggestions?

You are not bound to one parish or the other, are you? Australia is a big place. There should be priests galore, parishes galore.

And what happened to these priests with whom you lived? Could they not better direct you?

And have you approached your local bishop and chancery, or are you dealing with a committee of lay people in one parish who have set up their very own requirements, beyond what is mandated? Better check on that. Sometimes, they even outtalk their parish priest, who might be afraid to upset them.

And by the way- those who are already validly baptized do NOT have to be received at the Easter Vigil.

Thanks for your kind words Finally someone who can see my point. I will indeed ask adjacent parishes, and have been told by a priest friend that our local parish is too traditional at any rate. He says that Brisbane is actually known for its progressiveness. So good idea. Our ideal would be to go to a place that even had Bible studies during the evening/ Charismatic groups, etc, so looking around is a great idea.

How do we go about this without hurting our Sponsor or Catechist’s feelings? They have gone out of their way in love to come to our house since we have kids to try and teach us, and I do feel great gratitude towards them.

In fact, nothing happens in our Parish unless the lay people push for it. That’s because we have a Vietnamese Parish Priest (genuinely nice guy, but has to convert back to vietnemese then back to English to talk) who cannot hold a conversation, so the retired parish priest, a very busy man, does most of the work. So we had to get someone to go in to bat for us to get the kids baptised (to pin him down to a date).

Thanks again for your suggestions, I appreciate your kindness

God richly bless you.

 

[Allweather]

I was received into the Catholic Church in the mid-80s after having been validly baptized in a Protestant denomination. The parish did not operate an RCIA program, for what reason I do not know. The priest held meetings with me and my wife over a period of a couple of months. At one meeting, near the end of the programme, I casually mentioned to the priest that I had been married as a teenager, a stupid elopement of children, just before I went to Vietnam. This marriage failed very quickly. The priest stopped the instruction immediately and explained the problem to us. The previous failed marriage was a roadblock to our conversion. An annulment had to be got. I was devastated. All my fundamentalist friends, who were already convinced I’d gone off the deep end in my desire to become Catholic, started saying to me, see there? That Catholic Church is just a big obstacle in your path to Jesus. I was hard-headed enough, though, to stick it out, and boy, am I glad I did. Much *very necessary *healing took place during that annulment process. I was able to see God’s hand at work through the agency of the Catholic Church and its rules, which at first seemed so onerous to me. Out of that experience, I came to develop a trust in the Church. Many times, Catholic rules seem stupid to me, and I am tempted to sidestep them. Just as I am about to take that first sidestep, I recall the wisdom of the annulment that I was “forced” to endure 20+ years ago just to get into the Catholic Church, and I remember how beneficial that was, not just to me, but to my ex-wife, and the witness it provided to her, and only God knows, who else.

I know it is hard to be patient. I was very impatient, and at times, I was angry. My best advice to you would be to submit to this process and allow God to work this out for you in His own way. Even if there are people involved who are roadblocking you, God will use this to His own purposes and make something good out of it.

 

[adventistnomore]

And having had questions raised by very clever people, that is what I have to do now to have the same level of faith I once had.

This is a real blessing. It shows that you have grown, intellectually and spiritually, so that a childlike faith is no longer sufficient for you. Advance from “milk” to “solid food” in Christ.

I don’t see how it is fair that I should have to read the Early Fathers (I’ve read Augustine), things like St Ignatius, St Clement of Rome, Thomas Aquinas, just because I have had people pose tough questions and I have found that the history is not as conclusive as I thought once. What, do I have to study Theology, Ecclesiology and History just to be a lay member of the Church with no authority?

God has give you an inquisitive mind, and is attempting to develop it with trying questions and challenges (I find myself persistently investigating the same). Not all Catholics are called to the same intellectual burden, but you are. Receive your lot with gratitude, and allow the Church to continue to instruct you from her capacity as teacher. She has dealt with all these questions before, and if you search the depths of her wisdom, you will find the answers you seek. If I can be of help with any particular doctrines you struggle with, I’d be glad to assist you.

Finally, as for Christ, I could quite happily receive Him in the Eucharist today without guilt. Before you call me a heretic remember I am on fire for God, read the Bible and pray daily, have repented of a lifetime of sins and he who is forgiven much loves much. Just between me and Jesus, He would have me in the Church today, I am sure of that, and certainly would allow me to have the peace that comes from a good confession.

And I hope you find that peace. I would be careful of language that seems to imply you “deserve” it in any way, because none of us do. But I believe that you truly seek after God, and have a contrite heart. Again, cling to Christ through this experience, and continue to strive for humility. It’s a virtue that takes more than a lifetime to perfect, and every frustration is a means to its realization.

 

[adventistnomore]

A few more years??? After five years???

Might I make a couple very simple suggestions?

You are not bound to one parish or the other, are you? Australia is a big place. There should be priests galore, parishes galore.

And what happened to these priests with whom you lived? Could they not better direct you?

And have you approached your local bishop and chancery, or are you dealing with a committee of lay people in one parish who have set up their very own requirements, beyond what is mandated? Better check on that. Sometimes, they even outtalk their parish priest, who might be afraid to upset them.

And by the way- those who are already validly baptized do NOT have to be received at the Easter Vigil.

Agreed, if you can find a quicker alternative, take it. You don’t have to endure the weaknesses and flaws of your parish’s RCIA if there are alternative routes of entry. But again, guard the door of your heart; never forget that God had a purpose in allowing you to experience this delay.

 

[Contarini]

I would like to vent a bit of my frustration at the difficulty in joining the RCC, and a couple of other things.

I came to know Jesus through the RCC (I boarded with preists for 5 years undergoing Catechesis), and the AOG church (my wife’s church) at the same time. The AOG church went off on the prosperity tangent, and I thought, well the RCC still teaches the truth. I know “all” the teachings and accept them so let’s go there.

I expected having gone through years of Catechesis to simply be received into the RCC, but was told I had to do the RCIA. What has happened is that things I used to accept as fact (Apostolic Succession, Infallibility of the Pope, the Churche’s concern for the poor) have all come into question since doing the RCIA. I have looked into history, since my sponsor is a history buff, and found things to be not so clear-cut as I once though.

But isn’t that a very good reason for going through the process? If your Catholic beliefs were not as firm as you thought, then it’s good that you have discovered this. I had a very similar experience, and that is one of the reasons I’m not Catholic today.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

As for history, look up the following:

1. Name one secular eye-witness historian who wrote of Jesus’ ministry.

There isn’t one. I don’t see this as a serious objection to the historicity of Christianity, though of course outside confirmation would be nice. What would a Greco-Roman historian be doing in Jerusalem anyway? This is an unrealistic condition imposed by anti-Christian polemicists. Greco-Roman historians were interested in the Jews as an important cultural group within the Empire, but there’s no reason why they would be interested in the doings of some backwoods Galilean preacher.

1. When do you think the first Bishop of Rome was? (clue:it wasn’t Peter, even though I agree that Jesus left him as leader, try in the 300’s).

Are you saying that the first bishop of Rome was in the 300s? This is certainly false. It is commonly believed that the “monarchical episcopate” did not arise at Rome until the mid-to-late *second *(not fourth) century. That is certainly one of the stronger historical objections to the RC doctrine of the papacy, but it’s not conclusive in my opinion. The argument is largely based on silence, which is always weak, and even if it’s correct, it simply means that no one Roman presbyter had a clear and direct authority over the others. It does not exclude the possibility that one of these presbyters might have been first among equals and the successor of Peter and Paul. I would also be willing to talk about all the Roman presbyters as the successors of Peter and Paul together, but I’m not sure that this would fit the RC understanding of the papacy (since I’m Anglican I don’t have to worry about that!).

1. Even amongst Catholic books and scholars the authorship of the Gospels and time of writing is disputed.

Sure. Why is that such a big deal?

1. Did you know that the RCC accepts (theistic) evolution?

It is not an official teaching, but it’s certainly a legitimate opinion and probably the most widely held one. Sure. What’s the problem with that?

Your sponsor’s attitude is not typical of official Catholic teaching today, as I think you know. I actually had the opposite problem–the parish I tried to join was so liberal that it was hard for me to see the point in jumping through all the hoops and making my family think I was deluded by Satan. I probably would have responded better to being told that I had to become Catholic to save my soul–that would have made it worthwhile!

Edwin

 

[jmcrae]

I know that part of it is a public declaration of faith, but am under the impression that Easter Vigil is one of those occasions where even the twice a year Catholics go. In other words it would have been a BIG Mass.

Actually, Easter morning is the big one.

The Easter Vigil isn’t that large, mostly because it’s late at night, and runs quite long, especially if all seven Old Testament readings are done. (We only did four of them, and we still ran pretty close to 11:00 pm last night. One person in my row had to go home early, because he was starting to pass out from exhaustion.)

I took 17 years to become Catholic, and I should have taken 18 - I didn’t realize until it was too late to back out that I wasn’t ready at all for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I should have taken an extra year, or at least several months, to be more thoroughly catechized on that subject.

Fortunately, it’s one of those things you can do very badly and still come out on top - but I do wish that I had not had to do it quite as badly as I did - I wish I had known more about what I was really doing, when I got there.

I really, highly, strongly recommend that you take care of all your doubts, and make sure you have all of your prayers firmly in your head to the point where someone can be banging pots and pans, and you can still remember how to say them (especially the Act of Contrition) and be willing and able to believe that the Church is always teaching you the Truth, before you become an “official” Catholic.

 

[Techno2000]

Thanks for your replies:

To the person who said my pride is causing my confusion, FullofZeal, I don’t believe that. Am I not allowed to have certainty in my convictions? I just know that some people are born into the Church and have all the Blessings of the Sacraments they want. And yet I who grew up unchurched put in a lot of study at the Presbytery and over the years. I had to seek and work hard. rI have been at the stage of understanding and believing “more than most Catholics.” BTW, that was said of me by a priest, not my words. And yet, all I want is to participate in Christ’s Church. My point was that things I had accepted with a childlike faith have been questioned greatly since doing the RCIA. I have had clever people: ex-Catholics, venomous atheists (some ex-ministers), non-Catholics really put my Catholic beliefs through the ringer. If was just accepted immediatley, I would have been too busy learning about the Councils, liturgy, rosary, Hierachy to question such things. If you like I can give you some examples of the curlies that have been thrown my way. For instance, name one eye-witness secular historian who recorded Jesus’ life for themself (must be a primary source).

Adventistnomore:

I have not made myself clear. It is not that I don’t believe these things, it is just that I accepted them in a childlike fashion before (the equivalent of accepting Christianity based on Pascal’s Wager), whereas now my faith in the RCC has been tested. I still believe them, but my faith has been shaken. People say that those who study Church history become Catholic. And having had questions raised by very clever people, that is what I have to do now to have the same level of faith I once had. I don’t see how it is fair that I should have to read the Early Fathers (I’ve read Augustine), things like St Ignatius, St Clement of Rome, Thomas Aquinas, just because I have had people pose tough questions and I have found that the history is not as conclusive as I thought once. What, do I have to study Theology, Ecclesiology and History just to be a lay member of the Church with no authority?

A priest friend who has perfect timing rang me tonight and did say that my particular parish is extremely traditional and that maybe we should seek a more progressive parish. Man I needed that man’s words of encouragement.

Finally, as for Christ, I could quite happily receive Him in the Eucharist today without guilt. Before you call me a heretic remember I am on fire for God, read the Bible and pray daily, have repented of a lifetime of sins and he who is forgiven much loves much. Just between me and Jesus, He would have me in the Church today, I am sure of that, and certainly would allow me to have the peace that comes from a good confession.

Hi davidarlette,
You can do a Spiritual Communion :

Holy Communion
Each time we receive Holy Communion our venial sins are forgotten.

Christ revealed to St. Gertrude the Great that each time one person receives Holy Communion, something good happens to every being in Heaven, on earth, and in Purgatory.

The Cure of Ars said that a Communion well received is worth more than 20,000 NFF given to the poor.

Each time we receive Communion our place in Heaven is raised forever, our stay in Purgatory shortened.

WE SHOULD NEVER LET A DAY PASS WITHOUT GOING TO HOLY COMMUNION!

Spiritual Communion
The value of a spiritual Communion well made is enormous. We can, and should, make one frequently. Simply think on Jesus and how much He loves us and how much we love Him, then ask Our Blessed Mother to ask Her Divine Son to come into our hearts. We can offer these Communions for the interest of the Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, noting our special intention!

After receiving Holy Communion, Our Lord said we should pray: “Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, may the whole world burn with love for You!” (revelation to Gabrielle Bosse in France).
THE SPIRITUAL COMMUNION
By a rescript of November 24. 1922 the Sacred Congregation of Indulgences approved the following formula for a spiritual communion:

"O Jesus I turn toward the holy tabernacle where You live hidden for love of me. I love you, O my God. I cannot receive you in Holy Communion. Come nevertheless and visit me with Your grace. Come spiritually into my heart. Purify it. Sanctify it. Render it like unto Your own. Amen.

Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldst enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.

An indulgence of 500 days, if thrice repeated.
(129 The Raccolta 1944).

It was the Cure of Ars who said, "A spiritual communion acts on the soul as blowing does on a cinder-covered fire which was about to go out. Whenever you feel your love of God growing cold, quickly make a spiritual communion

angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/nholycommunion.html