RCC difficult to join

[christianley]

He is working on it as best he can in Australia. Many things may be different there. His Parish certainly didn’t sound very encouraging if they wanted him (them) to wait.

I hope your post encouraged him all the more!

Peace,
SingtotheLord

I hope he can hang in there. It’s been wonderful for me even though my Mormon wife and kids didn’t come in with me. I’d be all over the Bishop to see what I had to do to make it happen.

 

[theAuthor]

SingtotheLord,

I am so pleased for your offering your Rosary for me today. That’s so sweet! I dont’t think anyone has offered a Rosary for me before And thanks for your encouragement.

I prayed earnestly for hours the other night, since I couldn’t sleep for worry about it. Why I didn’t say “at this time” is just because my patience is already spent. I am not perfect and have already been earnestly seeking the Sacrament of Reconciliation for months. It is mainly a feeling of rejection that I struggle with, so I would like to be received into out local Parish so there’s no bitter feeling there. I want my only feelings towards the Church to be warm ones. The Parish Priest from our local Parish is coming over on thursday night to discuss our being received.

However, if that does not work out, my Priest friend from Sydney has arranged for me to see another Priest having explained my situation to him, and is sure that this other Priest will arrange things for me. I don’t know if people overseas use expresssions like “pulled a few strings” or “called in a favour”, but that’s what he did for me.

As for our Parish, yes they are extremely cautious. But overly so. My wife made the comment many times that it seemed like they were trying to scare us off! IF it wasn’t for the grounding I received from Fr Michael for those 5 years, we would have given up as the rest of our RCIA group has. They say they fear that we will join and then learn that there was something we didn’t know about and regret joining. But even my sponsor who is an expert in the Saints didn’t know about the Knights Templar, so you just can’t prevent that. Not that it matters really. I find I keep going through a process: having faith in what the Church teaches, smart alec people testing what I believe, then me studying, and regaining or my faith deepening and understanding more. This was especially true when I worked at the Mater Hospital! Despite being a Catholic Hospital, there were many very intelligent anti-Catholics there with some clever arguments that forced me to study some more apologetics. I don’t see that process ever stopping as I reach out to people and tell them the good news. But I do have absolute faith that the Church has the fullness of Truth, so I trust that over and again She will provide new levels of Truth as I need it.

God Bless

 

[SDA2RC]

David,
I hope the new priest will be able to help you out. Candidates for Confirmation (i.e. those who are already Christians) should be treated differently than new Christian Converts and it sounds like this has not been the case at your parish.

When I converted to Catholicism, I did not have to go through RCIA and was received into the Church on Pentecost Sunday. I began talking with a priest whom I had known since childhood and mentioned that I had written a letter to my family (about 100 pages) explaining my conversion. He asked to read the letter. After reading it, he told me he did not feel that I needed RCIA and that I understood the faith well enough to be received. It was still about 3 months before I was received however.

I will pray for you… hang in there!

SingtotheLord,

I am so pleased for your offering your Rosary for me today. That’s so sweet! I dont’t think anyone has offered a Rosary for me before And thanks for your encouragement.

I prayed earnestly for hours the other night, since I couldn’t sleep for worry about it. Why I didn’t say “at this time” is just because my patience is already spent. I am not perfect and have already been earnestly seeking the Sacrament of Reconciliation for months. It is mainly a feeling of rejection that I struggle with, so I would like to be received into out local Parish so there’s no bitter feeling there. I want my only feelings towards the Church to be warm ones. The Parish Priest from our local Parish is coming over on thursday night to discuss our being received.

However, if that does not work out, my Priest friend from Sydney has arranged for me to see another Priest having explained my situation to him, and is sure that this other Priest will arrange things for me. I don’t know if people overseas use expresssions like “pulled a few strings” or “called in a favour”, but that’s what he did for me.

As for our Parish, yes they are extremely cautious. But overly so. My wife made the comment many times that it seemed like they were trying to scare us off! IF it wasn’t for the grounding I received from Fr Michael for those 5 years, we would have given up as the rest of our RCIA group has. They say they fear that we will join and then learn that there was something we didn’t know about and regret joining. But even my sponsor who is an expert in the Saints didn’t know about the Knights Templar, so you just can’t prevent that. Not that it matters really. I find I keep going through a process: having faith in what the Church teaches, smart alec people testing what I believe, then me studying, and regaining or my faith deepening and understanding more. This was especially true when I worked at the Mater Hospital! Despite being a Catholic Hospital, there were many very intelligent anti-Catholics there with some clever arguments that forced me to study some more apologetics. I don’t see that process ever stopping as I reach out to people and tell them the good news. But I do have absolute faith that the Church has the fullness of Truth, so I trust that over and again She will provide new levels of Truth as I need it.

God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

People being what they are like to have their exclusive little clubs. The RCC is not a country club. It is not based on ettiquite. As the One True Church, it is a matter of salvation for me, so I will keep trying to get in with all of my strength, with every fibre of my being. You, Thomas, have no monopoly on either Her or the Lord. As it turns out, we may be received very soon, since the Parish Priest is visiting us on Thursday night. If someone here has been praying for us, thanks, your prayers are being answered, doors are opening finally.
Thomas, frankly I find your lack of Christian charity appalling. Wasn’t what you just said the equivalent of “Why don’t you just F off!?”

That’s not how I understood it. I was understanding him to mean, If you don’t agree with the teachings, don’t like the liturgies, hate the people, etc., then what is it that you are doing here?

The idea of the RCIA is to instruct people in what the RCC believes, so that they know what Catholicism is all about, what it involves (eg weekly Mass, Reconcilitation). My argument has always been that since I understand these things already then why am I being refused entry? As it turns out, I think I found out today. Our sponsor, who we once thought was lovely is extrremely legalistic and old fashioned and would expect anyone to be perfect before joining. This is the same woman who says that all dancing is evil, that people should not wear nice backless dresses to Mass, etc. However, as my priest friend said, if you had to be perfect before joining, no-one would ever be able to join!

If this is true, then your sponsor is in need of further instruction in the faith - Catholics think dancing is just fine.

I know of a few who have been received by the Church without doing the RCIA.

This is extremely rare, and it doesn’t always work out - a lot of these people end up leaving the Church because they don’t know anybody. Part of what happens in RCIA is that the group becomes a community that is bonded together through the shared experience of the conversion process. They continue to support each other, even for years afterwards.

jmcrae, have you been listening, sweetie? That is my point! I have the head knowledge and now wish to be in full Communion with the church sacramentally. That has been the whole point of this thread.

What I was trying to say was that the head knowledge isn’t the point.

I didn’t realize you had a bad sponsor - I thought you were giving the priest reason to believe that you weren’t ready, yet - that you were giving him the impression that you were depending on your head-knowledge to make you Catholic.

We become Catholic in our hearts - not in our heads. Head knowledge is also good to have, as well, but the essentials are in our hearts; not in our heads.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

After decades of Protestantism I was Chrismated and became Orthodox after 2 meetings with the priest. Since I was active in Church leadership and prison/teaching ministries, it seemed to the priest that I “got the drill” so he received me immediately. No problem. That was 12 years ago.

We decided it was time to become Catholic (for reasons not germaine to this thread) and were told that the process is a lengthy one involving RCIA. I was a little miffed because I felt that I understood what I was doing and couldn’t understand why I had to do this.

I was so wrong. The relatively long process of RCIA was really a gestational period that was necessary to do it properly. It made all the difference. Being received last night was THE most meaningful faith experience I have ever had. This would not have been possible without the long process of RCIA.

A year ago I thought RCIA would be annoying, extraneous and redundant. Now I view it as absolutely critical to the process and would not trade it for the world.

May God bless you on your journey.

I am glad that you were able to gracefully and humbly accept the RCIA process, but, and I don’t really have a dog in this fight, I have a little problem with it.

As an Orthodox you should have been recieved into the CC with a simple profession of faith. You already were a member of a church (a community of faithful possesed of 7 valid sacraments) rather than an ecclesial community (what 99% of Protestants are) or from a non-believing background.

I am pretty sure that the guidelines are clear on this one and that in fact you should NOT have had to go through the RCIA process. Orthodox should be recieved with a simple profession. And it is generally the norm that they be recieved into the Eastern Catholic Church.

Any idea why it might have been the case it was decided you were put through RCIA?

 

[ASimpleSinner]

SingtotheLord,

I am so pleased for your offering your Rosary for me today. That’s so sweet! I dont’t think anyone has offered a Rosary for me before And thanks for your encouragement.

Oh they have. You just didn’t know it.

Millions of Catholics around the world pray for you and me DAILY - even if NOT by name.

When ever anyone so much as utters a Hail Mary quietly to themselves - that includes you and me. “Pray for us sinners, now and out the hour of our death.” Well if anyone can be called a sinner - it is ME. And each prayer - in that sense - is for me individually every bit as much as it is for the world.

A few years ago I started a practice based on the advice of a rather Godly Maronite I knew and a book I had read. When someone pops into my head that I have not thought about for years, I say a Hail Mary for them. I don’t know what causes me to think about my Kindergarten teacher, or a friend’s grandma or a neighbor I had 25 years ago when I do, but I always act on the idea that it is a “signal” to say a small prayer for them. I have every confidnece that more than once this is just what they needed.

Further I have been told by people I have not seen in years - especially during the darker years before my reversion to the Church - that they were praying for me. People I had forgotten I ever knew were saying prayers for me. I promise you, I needed each and every single one of those prayers and still do.

So having said all this, guess what? Tonight you get another Rosary, from me.

Simple

 

[SingtotheLord]

SingtotheLord,

I am so pleased for your offering your Rosary for me today. That’s so sweet! I dont’t think anyone has offered a Rosary for me before And thanks for your encouragement.

I prayed earnestly for hours the other night, since I couldn’t sleep for worry about it. Why I didn’t say “at this time” is just because my patience is already spent. I am not perfect and have already been earnestly seeking the Sacrament of Reconciliation for months. It is mainly a feeling of rejection that I struggle with, so I would like to be received into out local Parish so there’s no bitter feeling there. I want my only feelings towards the Church to be warm ones. The Parish Priest from our local Parish is coming over on thursday night to discuss our being received.

However, if that does not work out, my Priest friend from Sydney has arranged for me to see another Priest having explained my situation to him, and is sure that this other Priest will arrange things for me. I don’t know if people overseas use expresssions like “pulled a few strings” or “called in a favour”, but that’s what he did for me.

As for our Parish, yes they are extremely cautious. But overly so. My wife made the comment many times that it seemed like they were trying to scare us off! IF it wasn’t for the grounding I received from Fr Michael for those 5 years, we would have given up as the rest of our RCIA group has. They say they fear that we will join and then learn that there was something we didn’t know about and regret joining. But even my sponsor who is an expert in the Saints didn’t know about the Knights Templar, so you just can’t prevent that. Not that it matters really. I find I keep going through a process: having faith in what the Church teaches, smart alec people testing what I believe, then me studying, and regaining or my faith deepening and understanding more. This was especially true when I worked at the Mater Hospital! Despite being a Catholic Hospital, there were many very intelligent anti-Catholics there with some clever arguments that forced me to study some more apologetics. I don’t see that process ever stopping as I reach out to people and tell them the good news. But I do have absolute faith that the Church has the fullness of Truth, so I trust that over and again She will provide new levels of Truth as I need it.

God Bless

I will just continue to pray for you. Maybe your Parish priest was not aware of your situation as it may be unique to who they normally receive into the Church. Several have posted that some joined and then found they didn’t have a “community” so to speak, that the RCIA community was their first encounter and could be built upon. If this will make it uncomfortable for you to remain at this parish, then you can seek out other Catholic parishes as time goes on. It is a journey and a process that is never ending…as you said yourself, you “have absolute faith that the Church has the fullness of Truth” so you will “trust that over and again” that “She will provide new levels of Truth as” you “need it”.
Thursday is not that far away…

SingtotheLord

 

[thomasf]

People being what they are like to have their exclusive little clubs. The RCC is not a country club. It is not based on ettiquite. As the One True Church, it is a matter of salvation for me, so I will keep trying to get in with all of my strength, with every fibre of my being. You, Thomas, have no monopoly on either Her or the Lord. As it turns out, we may be received very soon, since the Parish Priest is visiting us on Thursday night. If someone here has been praying for us, thanks, your prayers are being answered, doors are opening finally.
Thomas, frankly I find your lack of Christian charity appalling. Wasn’t what you just said the equivalent of “Why don’t you just F off!?”

I’ll pray for you, because you seem to be missing what I’ve said and taken offense. I never said you shouldn’t be in, or shouldn’t get in, or that I’ve got a monopoly, or that it’s a club you don’t belong in. I just think you’ve got the wrong attitude, and you need to address that before you are accepted into the church.

I asked a question. You didn’t answer it yet took offense to what I asked. Why not answer? I asked to get an answer. If you feel like the church doesn’t want you, if you have suddenly discovered that you don’t agree with the church, if you think the church’s membership requirements are too harsh, if you feel that you don’t fit in, why do you want in? I’m sorry if you saw that as offensive, but I asked that in an honest manner to get an honest answer. And to see if you could answer.

Believe me, if I wanted to tell you to “F off” I would have. I didn’t. You’re very defensive and apparently don’t take criticism very well. I’m just telling you like I see it. And I see that your attitude isn’t right, you’re approaching this whole thing the wrong way, and it’s only going to hurt you in the long run.

I’d love to see you, and everyone else in the world, become catholics. But like I said earlier, it’s not a matter of passing classes or learning a certain amount about the church. You don’t ‘earn’ your way in by reading so many books and doctrines and learning so much about the church. There’s much more to it. All that stuff I mentioned is what the church is. Not just what you can learn from research and study. And if you truly learned all that and wanted to join and be a part of the church, as jmcrae said, I can’t see the little things keeping you from getting in. From what I read in you’re posts, you are totally missing that bigger picture.

All these issues you’ve brought up, it’s not your fault or your problem in your opinion. You’ve done everything you think you should do to get into the church, and think that the church should bend to you and just let you in because of that. Did you ever stop to think, maybe there’s a reason why these roadblocks keep appearing? Maybe someone in charge sees the same problems that I, and others here, have pointed out and don’t think you’re ready yet? Maybe God is giving you a sign that something isn’t right about what you’re doing? Maybe you’re not ready, maybe you’re missing something?

And as far as christian charity goes, if I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have posted. But you seem very passionate about the church, and determined to get in. And your attitude struck me as wrong. If I wanted to be unchristian, I would have moved on and let you keep fumbling around trying to get in, without the perspective I provided. My hope would be that you could read it without taking offense, re-evaluate your attitude and desire to get in, and move on toward becoming a member more successfully. Because the church needs passionate members, new members.

I’m sorry you took offense to what I wrote. But it only goes back to reinforcing my original opinion.

Good luck.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

It is my understanding that RCIA is – among other things – an opportunity for folks to learn what the Church teaches and why She teaches those things.

The title of the thread is “RCC difficult to join.” I imagine it would be difficult for someone to join a community with whom one did not agree.

And I venture that it should be difficult for someone to join a community with whom one did not agree. After all, is it reasonable for people who want to go to California to book a flight to Alaska and then try to change the flight plan after boarding?

It is not easy to be Catholic in the first place. It is more often than not really tough slogging. Anti-Catholicism is afterall the last acceptable prejudice in our society. An RCIA process that is less than thorough, less than clear, less than challenging would not be fair to those enrolled in it, would it?

Catholicism does not force. Catholicism does not try to trick folks with a feel-good experience and then sign them up for life. Catholicism gives folks information, prayer, community, respect, and lots of time for them to make an informed choice; so that they can be sure that membership in the Catholic Church is what they want with all their hearts and souls.

Therefore, if folks do not agree with what is taught in RCIA and the Church will not try to force them to agree with it, I think it is very important for folks to know their motivation for joining. Why should they join something with which they do not agree?

If folks do manage to identify the reason for wanting to join something they oppose and that reason seems good to them, then the next step is to examine what it is exactly they oppose.

Bishop Fulton Sheen said something along the lines of this: fully ten people oppose the Church for what the Church actually teaches but fully millions oppose the Church for what they think the Church teaches.

Since it is joining the Church that is the issue here, then I would think it paramount to examine what the Church actually teaches. Since much falsity has been published about what the Church actually teaches, then folks should expect this period of examination to take some time. Perhaps even more time than is generally taken. Perhaps years.

Those years can be brimming with encounters, study, prayer, retreats, community and can be remembered as a joyful passage into a whole new rich life rather than a barrier to an inadequently understood ‘thing’ to be acquired.

The Church will not force. The Church will not rush.

The RCIA experience should be helpful. If it is not – and we are human afterall – then find another RCIA experience somewhere else. A personal spiritual director may also be helpful. It is people we want, not automatons. The Church will not attempt to remove the humanity from those who seek Her. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[homewardbound]

It is my understanding that RCIA is – among other things – an opportunity for folks to learn what the Church teaches and why She teaches those things.

Just had a question about this statement; what if you already know and believe the basics of Catholic faith? What if everything you’re taught in RCIA, you learned through private study long ago and you teach more during the RCIA class than the instructor, because in your reading and studying you bring up better points and seem to know more than her! Thats what happened to me last fall when I joined RCIA, and it seemed completely pointless for me to be there. I left because they were teaching in error(“Oh its fine to pray to flowers as God” and “Mass is all about community, you shouldn’t be praying at all during it”), and I refused to enter the Church that way. I am a baptized Christian and the Catechism says those individuals aren’t even supposed to be grouped with the non-baptized. I definitely learned why that is, as I was the only baptized one there. Yes, maybe I could have stayed and set some things right with the teaching…but I’d like to actually be a Catholic before thinking I can teach others about it! RCIA definitely isn’t right for everyone. It only covers the basics of faith, and its not hard for people to learn and believe them with their own private studying.

I agree with the OP that it is very hard and frustrating to join the RCC. With all the hoops you have to jump through, it can get annoying. I definitely understand that its because it is such a big decision and not something to jump willy nilly into. Thats why the Church wants to make sure those being confirmed are really ready. After five years though, I’d say you’d know! Maybe talk to priest about it. Ask him to meet with you and see what he thinks. If you’re a baptized Christian already, you don’t have to be confirmed at Easter only. I’m hoping to be confirmed sooner, if the priest I meet with thinks I’m ready.

Deus Mea Lux Est

 

[Ani_Ibi]

homewardbound:

What if everything you’re taught in RCIA, you learned through private study long ago and you teach more during the RCIA class than the instructor, because in your reading and studying you bring up better points and seem to know more than her!

I will not deny that this happens because I myself have seen it. However, folks going through RCIA are responsible for getting satisfactory answers to their questions. How else can they make informed choices? That may mean going to the priest in charge. Or another priest. Or the bishop. Or where ever.

homewardbound:

Yes, maybe I could have stayed and set some things right with the teaching…but I’d like to actually be a Catholic before thinking I can teach others about it!

Indeed, and it takes more than just knowing information to be in a position to teach in the Catholic Church.

homewardbound:

RCIA definitely isn’t right for everyone. It only covers the basics of faith, and its not hard for people to learn and believe them with their own private studying.

The point is that Catholicism is not about private studying only. It is about public studying. Community. Quite a humbling experience.

homewardbound:

I agree with the OP that it is very hard and frustrating to join the RCC.

And harder and more frustrating to actually** be** a member of the Church.

homewardbound:

With all the hoops you have to jump through, it can get annoying.

Well it gets challenging certainly.

homewardbound:

I definitely understand that its because it is such a big decision and not something to jump willy nilly into. Thats why the Church wants to make sure those being confirmed are really ready. After five years though, I’d say you’d know!

I know some who have been at it all their lives and they have not yet reached the point of acknowledging that they know little. The Church does not force. The Church does not rush.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I see your point in terms of length of time. If it takes so long to learn (and this is anger talking now, sorry), maybe it is more complicated than Jesus intended it to be.

davidarlette,

Personally, I am so glad for the rich tradition found in the Catholic Church. There is no end to learning and experiencing God in the Church. And I really believe that it is always complicated for human beings to try and understand the Infinite. God is all-knowing, all-powerful, timeless, etc. I am none of those things!

God bless you.

 

[SerenaHC]

Dear David,

I just wanted to tell you a quick story. When I came into the RCC in 2003, my RCIA class was led by our parish priest because he said that he believed the formation of new Catholics was too important to leave to the laity. My time in RCIA was the most wonderful experience of my life.

However, in 2005 my husband went through RCIA in a different parish, different diocese, with a layperson leading the RCIA process. She contradicted everything my priest told me when I was in RCIA. My husband would come home saying, “Fr. Todd taught you wrong about so-and-so.” We’d go look up the issue in the Catechism, the Bible, the Early Church Fathers, etc., and always found that Fr. Todd, my priest had faithfully taught me the teachings of the Church. The problem was that my husband’s RCIA director had an agenda to liberalize and change the Church to suit her opinions and was trying to accomplish that by mis-shaping the minds of new Catholics in RCIA. The parish priest knew what she was doing and did nothing to stop her.

It was such a horrible experience that my husband almost didn’t join the Church that Easter Vigil and it almost ended our marriage. His faith was severely tried by this horrible RCIA experience. After that Easter Vigil, we have never stepped foot back in that parish. We moved and joined a parish that is faithful to the magisterium and my husband has finally found the peace and joy that I found when I joined the Church.

God will work this out for you. Have patience, have faith, and pray a lot.

In Christ,

 

[theAuthor]

Serena HC, I have had a similar experince to you, expect that our sponsor (we learn in a small group, not a larger group because we have small children and they disrupted the group, as well as my wife breast-feeding), Our sponsor is the opposite to your situation though. She is ULTRA conservative-no dancing, no backless dresses in church, no rock music, tries to receive communion on the tongue, really tradish. The preists I know are a lot more realistic than her.

Elizabeth, I never expect to stop learning, My next thing to read about is more of the Early Fathers. I am simply saying that I have had enough instruction and belief in the Churche’s teaching to enter, and I have been told this before.

Frankly I think a preist should have been present more often to answer our questions. Many we asked were written down, and we were told “we’ll ask a preist.” We were Blessed enough to have some postulants around though, and they were awesome and knew the answers to what we were asking. eg Why is Mary called Queen of Heaven. Neither the Catechist nor sponsor knew, but the postulants said, “well, in the book of Revelation…” They were great!

homewardbound, thanks for relating.

thomasf Am I right in guessing you are a cradle Catholic? My response was in regard to your saying that being a member of the RCC is as much about social customs (culture and environment),etc as what one believes, which is a country-club attitude. I call a spade a spade. You are an exclusivist.
I did indeed answer your question quite clearly. I am trying to join the RCC, because I believe She is the one True Church which Christ founded, because I believe what she teaches, because my soul is at stake, and because I strongly desire to participate communally in the Sacraments (which other denominations do not have). Having been convinced of the Truth of the Church, where else can I go? Any other church would feel hollow, …even though they may have better music (lol)

All that stuff I mentioned is what the church is. Not just what you can learn from research and study. And if you truly learned all that and wanted to join and be a part of the church, as jmcrae said, I can’t see the little things keeping you from getting in. From what I read in you’re posts, you are totally missing that bigger picture

. I am not sure what you mean here. What bigger picture is there than that Jesus died in my place? You are talking in riddles.

Did you ever stop to think, maybe there’s a reason why these roadblocks keep appearing?

Well, a nice Catholic told me to expect this the other day, that the Devil would really try to put me off, and that it is a sign I am on the right track.

Maybe someone in charge sees the same problems that I, and others here, have pointed out and don’t think you’re ready yet? Maybe God is giving you a sign that something isn’t right about what you’re doing? Maybe you’re not ready, maybe you’re missing something?

See my posts about our sponsor (I am too dumb to see the obvious sometimes.) I don’t think anyone would ever be good enough to enter if it were up to her. As for environment and attitudes, I have been called an “honorary Catholic” which I think means I am as Catholic as you can get without actually being one (ie I have a Catholic heart).

 

[SingtotheLord]

Hi David!

I’ll continue praying for you and about the meeting today with your parish priest. I hope others will do so also. Let the Holy Spirit guide you. The priest and you can pray together and come to a decision about what God has put in your heart and your wife can do the same.

Peace be with you always,
SingtotheLord
with praise and thanksgiving!

 

[Contarini]

I am trying to join the RCC, because I believe She is the one True Church which Christ founded, because I believe what she teaches, because my soul is at stake, and because I strongly desire to participate communally in the Sacraments (which other denominations do not have).

Well, first of all even the RCC admits that we have baptism, and of course the Orthodox have the sacraments. . . .

But more to the point, if you really believe all of this, then why are you complaining about how “sensitive” you are and how mean people are being to you? Why did you refuse to become Catholic just because you didn’t want to be embarrassed by doing it on your own without a group coming in with you? I’m sorry, but it doesn’t seem from your posts as if you really think the matter is that urgent. Apparently your own feelings are more important.

If the Catholic Church is what you think it is, you should be willing to crawl to Ayers Rock on your knees if that was what it took. If it isn’t, why do you want in so badly? Either way, I think you need to reconsider your attitude about this.

As for environment and attitudes, I have been called an “honorary Catholic” which I think means I am as Catholic as you can get without actually being one (ie I have a Catholic heart).

I’ve often thought of myself that way as well, but in the end being Catholic isn’t just about your “heart” but about the whole person, body and soul. I’m being hard on you because I have noticed in myself and perhaps in other “honorary Catholics” as well a strong tendency toward egotism and narcissism, as if our own feelings about Catholicism were the thing that most mattered in the universe. We feel so proud of ourselves for being “so Catholic” without actually being Catholic that we expect Catholics to bow down and venerate us. A cradle Catholic friend of mine in grad school rightly ridiculed me for this, but she acknowledged that I was by no means unique (especially at Duke Divinity School, which is full of “honorary Catholics”). It is uncharitable to speculate about the spiritual condition of someone else, particularly someone I only know from a few Internet posts, and it may well be that you are free from this tendency. But your posts are certainly consistent with the attitude I have described.

Edwin

 

[thomasf]

thomasf You are an exclusivist.

I am most certainly not. And you continue to miss the point.

You’re very defensive, and continue to twist and misunderstand my posts. And I think now I will be done with this conversation because no matter what anyone posts or says on here, you’re not going to listen.

 

[theAuthor]

Thomas f, I may indeed have missed your point. I invited you to explain and you have not. Sometimes I come across people like you online who expect people to read minds without you explicitly stating what you mean.

I have had two types of responses on here:

1. from people like yourself “you don’t belong, why don’t you just give up”,
   2.to the very encouraging.
   I am sure I know which Jesus would have about a sheep joining his one True Church.

Contarini,
It may seem OK to you, if you are extremely used to the liturgy, church calender, etc to be received in front of a large group. As someone coming into the church it is terrifying. I have in fact chosen to be confirmed on an ordinary Sunday (yes in front of the whole church, since I am told it makes people happy and builds their faith).

I expect no Catholic to ever bow down to me ever! If I wanted vainglory the RCC would be the wrong church to join! I will only ever be just another layperson, although I do hope to play music for the Church one day, because people like Mass with guitar music. No way, man, all I want is to be accepted, to feel loved and a sense of connection. I am entering the RCC knowing that I will never have status in Her. I simply want to feel a part of Her. That is normal for any Christian I would have thought??

Conversion for me tends to go like this: heart, mind, feet. That is, I tend not be be converted in all three at the same time. Sometimes head knowledge comes first, then heart knowledge, then my actions line up. Sometimes it is the other way around.

I made the comment about “honorary Catholic” which friends have called me in defence, since people were saying “you have only head knowledge” as if that meant I should be excluded. So what I have head knowlegde and my will agrees with it.

As for the Uluru comment (Ayres Rock is politically incorrect nowadays), I was willing to undergo the RCIA (effectively undergoing Catechesis twice) again, and have done so. I am just as unworthy to receive the Lord as you! (lol)

 

[theAuthor]

SingtotheLord
Thanks for your prayers. We are having the priest over again next week to go over how to make a good confession (what words to say,etc.) He says he will help us, and we have some prayers to learn by rote that we got in the RCIA. Then we will be confirmed the week after and recieve our First Communion. My wife is pretty excited especially, because she never believed in the real prescence before.

I used to joke that the priest hearing my first confession had better block out a few hours of his diary (lol), but apparently it will be pretty simple. I am looking forward in eager anticipation to hearing the words of absolution and a fresh start. To being in a state of grace.

It’s funny, but now I know we are being accepted it’s like I can get excited and feel less silly about saying the Rosary. It’s like I can let myself feel excited. So thankyou so much for your prayers and support. It has been a great boon to me, and I am glad that there are people like you in the world. God love you.

 

[DiggidyDog]

… We are having the priest over again next week to go over how to make a good confession (what words to say,etc.) He says he will help us, and we have some prayers to learn by rote that we got in the RCIA. Then we will be confirmed the week after and recieve our First Communion. My wife is pretty excited especially, because she never believed in the real prescence before.

I’ve been waiting to hear how your meeting with your priest went. It sounds like things are working out for you and your wife. CONGRATS!!:extrahappy: