RCC difficult to join

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Semper_Fi said:
Hi, I cannot receive the Eucharist either till I go and make a confession. I believe in the Real Presence and do not receive because I respect the Sacrament and don’t want another mortal sin till I go through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. But that’s just me.

Would you rather that the Church be as easy to join as the AoG Church, or would you rather that converts (what else are we supposed to call those coming to the Faith?) be schooled in the Catechesis of the one True Church? If you don’t believe the Catholic Church is the One True Church, I don’t think you are ready to become Catholic yet. Your questions about why we need to confess to a priest at all show that RCIA might be a good thing for you (this isn’t a knock against you, but RCIA exists just for this purpose and as a forum to ask the questions you just posed to us in a community-centered manner).
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Oh dear, why do people post like this rather than just keep quiet? :mad:
Not encouraging for potential converts and signalling to people that the Catholic Church isn’t welcoming but exclusive. I despair:rolleyes:
 
:ouch: So many misunderstandings here, but no mind.

The PP has just been over. We are to make our first confession next Thursday night, and be Confirmed/ receive our First Holy Communion the Sunday following:extrahappy:

So its just a matter of memorising the Act of Contirition/ sorrow, and brushing up on the Creed (the long one we say in Mass, I can never remember if it’s the Nicene or Aprostles’ Creed in name).

BTW to Semper Fi, I might just add that as an aside, if I asked our group why it was necessary to confess to a preist I would get two different answers:
  1. It is Church teaching
  2. Maybe we don’t have to
I am not kidding.:hmmm:
  1. Here’s the answer I would give from the Scriptures:
    “Confess your sins one to another”
    to the Apostles: “Whoevers sins you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven.”
    Also the the sacrement is a visible sign of a spiritual reality, as the priest is acting in Persona Christi. Where’d I get the third answer from? A priest. How often was a priest at RCIA? Next to never.
We had the argument last night about whether the RCC accepts theistic evolution as an origin of man, one of our two teachers one won’t believe us. We are creationists BTW, and that is allowed too.

Obviously not all RCIA’s are equal. I may learn more in the next few years than we did in the RCIA (I am with you Simple Sinner). Now that it is actually happening. I can’t wait to find all of Fulton Sheen that I can, pray the Rosary, read the Early Fathers. I don’t see being accepted by the church as an end of learnig, but hopefully a beginning. That’s one of the things about the RCC that I love, that there is so much to learn, and yes, so much to remain a mystery (thanks Fr Joe).

Keik, I addressed what you said in another thread, quoting the Catechsm para 818 and 819 I think.

Anyway it is all happening, and didn’t the devil have a go at disuading me! I got the preist to pray for me tonight and feel heaps better.

So to all of y’all who have been enouraging (esp SingtotheLord) thanks very much.🙂

To those opposed me and “had a go at me” here, maybe read the Catechism para 813-822. And yes, I am quite serious.:tsktsk:
 
davidarlette said:
I would like to vent a bit of my frustration at the difficulty in joining the RCC, and a couple of other things.

I came to know Jesus through the RCC (I boarded with preists for 5 years undergoing Catechesis), and the AOG church (my wife’s church) at the same time. The AOG church went off on the prosperity tangent, and I thought, well the RCC still teaches the truth. I know “all” the teachings and accept them so let’s go there.

I expected having gone through years of Catechesis to simply be received into the RCC, but was told I had to do the RCIA. What has happened is that things I used to accept as fact (Apostolic Succession, Infallibility of the Pope, the Churche’s concern for the poor) have all come into question since doing the RCIA. I have looked into history, since my sponsor is a history buff, and found things to be not so clear-cut as I once though. She also insists that all other Churches are false since the RCC is the “One True Church.”

We also strongly dislike being called converts. We are already believers. If we were changing from Islam or Judaism, fair enough, but is Catholicism a different religion altogether to the AOG?

Another thing we dislike is being called protestants, since we have never had any ill-feeling towards the RCC, and were not involved in the Reformation. We didn’t know anything about it really (but do now).

So my other concern is this:
With my history, if I still have to jump through a million hoops to be received (despite my preist mentor saying I was ready 5 years ago), how are we expected to gain any new members for the RCC?

One more thing:
We are told to go to Mass, but cannot receive the Eucharist, despite believing in the Real Prescence, and that hurts. I also wish to make a good cofession and cannot do that either until just before being received into the Church. Even that has been put off until after Easter now because our whole group backed out!
I am told that as long as I am willing to make a good confession ASAP, then that counts. SO why do we confess to a preist at all? Why won’t they just hear my confession so I can have peace?
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You are already a member of the Church. Your unfolding faith is a gift of God to be treasured, and no one can take that from you, or stand in the way of it. Even so, the Church may require certain formalities of adults who desire to become Roman Catholics such as the RCIA, etc. to prepare them for a greater participation in the sacramental life of the Church, and continued growth in Christ.

Do not be anxious or scrupulous. Trust that God already knows your needs before you even ask Him and will bring you to where He wants you to be.
 
posted by PONG
You would have benfited greatly from a dose of humility
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what an objectional comment!
some Christian charity is best esp when talking about someone you don’t know
 
tee_eff_em said:
Respectfully disagree. Some people are born into the church and wait 7 or 8 or 10 or 14 years for the sacraments.

tee
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Such waiting made people in Europe turn to Islam. There, they only had to repeat two simple lines and they’re in.

Why can’t the RCC be like Jesus saying to the thief on the cross and just say “yes”?
 
After reading the first half page of this thread, I don’t understand why “non-Catholic Christians” think they know everything about the Catholic church as should be allowed to skip RCIA.

Overall, I probably learned very little in RCIA although it was a very good program, but I loved the time spent in class. It was an excellent time of fellowship. I met a LOT of people who introduced me to others in the Church. I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

Even the time that we were dismissed from the Eucharistic portion of mass was very well spent reflecting on the scripture readings. That would have never happened if everyone had stayed for the second half of mass. We, also, had other great discussions.

For those non-Catholic Christians who don’t like to be called “converts”, I think you misunderstand the use of the word in this situation. You are a “convert” to the Catholic church, not Christianity.
 
LeahInancsi said:
After reading the first half page of this thread, I don’t understand why “non-Catholic Christians” think they know everything about the Catholic church as should be allowed to skip RCIA.

Overall, I probably learned very little in RCIA although it was a very good program, but I loved the time spent in class. It was an excellent time of fellowship. I met a LOT of people who introduced me to others in the Church. I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

Even the time that we were dismissed from the Eucharistic portion of mass was very well spent reflecting on the scripture readings. That would have never happened if everyone had stayed for the second half of mass. We, also, had other great discussions.

For those non-Catholic Christians who don’t like to be called “converts”, I think you misunderstand the use of the word in this situation. You are a “convert” to the Catholic church, not Christianity.
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I, personally, see the theif on the cross joining Jesus at the last moment without going through any rituals that the RCC has. I’ve spent half of my 43 years in the RCC and I see it as a ceremony rather than a life-changing event.
To just get married in the presence of Jesus means over a year of classes in the RCC. To be a member means over another year of classes. What if I died before I was done?

Luke 9:49-50
49 Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.”
50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”

Would that man go to Hell? He wasn’t walking with Jesus or with Peter. He was on his own, but a believer in Jesus as the Messiah. Sure, he had to of known of what the Scriptures said of the Messiah yet, he didn’t follow Jesus, His disciples or Mary.

Some protestant religions follow Jesus without going astray (eg: Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, etc.).
Members of the RCC say that it’s “Catholics vs. Protestants” or “us vs. the wrong ones” and that’s not true.

I see some of the traditions of the RCC in conflict Scripture and if it’s proven, the RCC answers sometimes with “the Pope said so” in order to fill in the “holes”.

The Holy Spirit, given to all, guides us into all truth, according to Jesus. It’s He who can interrupret Scripture for us.

For example: When I was going through divorce and was on the worst end of it, my ex told me that our kids didn’t want to see me or talk to me. Yet, apart from her, the opposite was true. They just wanted to please their mother while she was around because they was living with her.
While talking to God alone, He told me to go to 3 John 4:

“I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.”

Those words brought comfort to me! Who’s to tell me that I could not interpret that? Who’s to say that it wasn’t God telling me that my own children know the truth and for me to be joyful?

Nobody in the RCC brings their Bible to church on Sunday. It was just a “mistleette” (sp?) which I could see just what the readings were going to be months ahead instead of letting the Holy Spirit run the service.

I’m following Jesus over here, apart from the RCC, in a Bible-believing Church: feeding the sheep, learning from the Shephard, taking care of the widowed and orphaned, preaching the Gospel, breaking bread with my brothers and sisters in the Lord.

I’m just not doing it your way. Please don’t treat all “protestants” like Saul treated David. David killed the giant with his own weapon and not the traditional weapon that Saul would use.**
 
Kujo;

Take it up with the Vatican. They are now forbidding us to let RCIA be less than one full (52 weeks) year. They are no longer permitting the September-Easter model of RCIA. (They are allowing us to phase it out, so it will be around for a while longer, but in ten years’ time, no one who joins RCIA will begin to receive the Sacraments until the Easter after the one upcoming - unless, like the thief on the cross, they are in danger of immediate death.)

I don’t know the reason, but I would speculate that perhaps even 4-5 months is not enough time for people to learn how to think and behave like Catholics. Two years is not too long, for those who really want it. Catholicism is not an impulsive religion.
 
kujo313 said:
I, personally, see the theif on the cross joining Jesus at the last moment without going through any rituals that the RCC has.
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The theif on the cross was given the grace of God just as you would have been.
kujo313 said:
To just get married in the presence of Jesus means over a year of classes in the RCC. To be a member means over another year of classes. What if I died before I was done?
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You are considered Catholic when you begin RCIA. If you had died, you would have been given all rites at death as given to all other Catholics.
kujo313 said:
Some protestant religions follow Jesus without going astray (eg: Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, etc.).
Members of the RCC say that it’s “Catholics vs. Protestants” or “us vs. the wrong ones” and that’s not true.
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I never used the term “Protestants” in my post.
kujo313 said:
I see some of the traditions of the RCC in conflict Scripture and if it’s proven, the RCC answers sometimes with “the Pope said so” in order to fill in the “holes”.

The Holy Spirit, given to all, guides us into all truth, according to Jesus. It’s He who can interrupret Scripture for us.
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If that’s the way you feel, then you should not join the Catholic church. It’s not the right religion for you.
kujo313 said:
For example: When I was going through divorce and was on the worst end of it, my ex told me that our kids didn’t want to see me or talk to me. Yet, apart from her, the opposite was true. They just wanted to please their mother while she was around because they was living with her.
While talking to God alone, He told me to go to 3 John 4:

“I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.”

Those words brought comfort to me! Who’s to tell me that I could not interpret that? Who’s to say that it wasn’t God telling me that my own children know the truth and for me to be joyful?
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What’s that got to do with the Catholic church?
kujo313 said:
Nobody in the RCC brings their Bible to church on Sunday. It was just a “mistleette” (sp?) which I could see just what the readings were going to be months ahead instead of letting the Holy Spirit run the service.
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Bring your Bible to a Catholic church if you want. The only scripture readings you will need to read along with will be in the misalette along with all the prayers said in mass by the priest, the Nicene Creed and much, much more.

If that’s the way you feel, then you should not join the Catholic church. It’s not the right religion for you.
kujo313 said:
I’m just not doing it your way. Please don’t treat all “protestants” like Saul treated David. David killed the giant with his own weapon and not the traditional weapon that Saul would use.**

There you go with “Protestants” again.

You don’t know quite as much as you think you do. Do you?

BTW, do you realize that the Catholic church does NOT believe that all non-Catholics will go to hell?
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Also, bring the Catechism of the Catholic Church to each mass with you.
 
I would like to share. I recently went throught the RCIA. It was a very possative journey. It is a commitment, and you are not obligated in the end to become a catholic. This is a preparation and a commitment for your confirmation. You learn allot, you have a sponsor to help you through. It’s not jumping through hoops or painful. It’s spiritual growth in your faith. I’m in my late 30’s and I have alway wanted to do this. It was just a matter of commiting to the time spent to learn. Our parish preist was always available for classes. Sometimes he taught the class. Many of the sponsors commented that they also learned allot from these classes. You don’t pass or fail. It’s your choice to continue and recieve your sacrements. It’s was one of my most proud times of my life. It should be a happy rewarding time in your life. If you are not feeling this. Go to another parish. Things are handle differently at each congragation. The people teaching the classes are volunteers. You should feel good about it. Not stresses.
 
jmcrae said:
Kujo;

Take it up with the Vatican. They are now forbidding us to let RCIA be less than one full (52 weeks) year. They are no longer permitting the September-Easter model of RCIA. (They are allowing us to phase it out, so it will be around for a while longer, but in ten years’ time, no one who joins RCIA will begin to receive the Sacraments until the Easter after the one upcoming - unless, like the thief on the cross, they are in danger of immediate death.)

I don’t know the reason, but I would speculate that perhaps even 4-5 months is not enough time for people to learn how to think and behave like Catholics. Two years is not too long, for those who really want it. Catholicism is not an impulsive religion.
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Did Jesus ever intend His Church to put such limitations on church membership and salvation? I bet not.

Repent and be Baptized. That’s it.

Afterwards, let the “member” learn why you do what you do.

Limitations is one thing that drives people away from the RCC.
 
kujo313 said:
Did Jesus ever intend His Church to put such limitations on church membership and salvation? I bet not.

Repent and be Baptized. That’s it.

Afterwards, let the “member” learn why you do what you do.

Limitations is one thing that drives people away from the RCC.
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Well if you believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church
then it would be worth the wait.👍
 
Techno2000 said:
Well if you believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church
then it would be worth the wait.👍
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To tell the truth, any church (not necessarily a religion) that helps you get saved is the “true” Church. The first century Church was added to daily. Good tradition to follow.

Can’t wait, dont want to wait any longer. don’t have to wait, just ask!

RCC’s bind themselves to their own rules.
 
Techno2000 said:
Here is a little short cut to getting saved:

catholicforum.com/churches/cathteach/divinemercy1.htm
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Romans 10:8-10

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”(that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
Everytime I see the title of this thread in my e-mail (because I’m subscribed), I want to laugh hysterically. :banghead:
 
jmcrae said:
I’m guessing you’d say that it’s too easy to get in?
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The eight months I spent in RCIA were very easy, fulfilling and fun. I could easily have stayed in RCIA several more months as someone mentioned that the Pope is trying to require now.

Maybe a “phasing in” process might a good solution.

It should be difficult to make sure those coming in have really made the necessary committment.

IMO, the OP is still clueless.
 
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