RCC kids visiting Lutheran church?

[AliciaCL]

My children were invited to “try out” a visit to a Lutheran church. They are 8 and just had First Holy Communion. I told them no, it could be confusing and other churches don’t believe that Jesus is in Holy communion. My non-Catholic spouse strongly disagrees and thinks it’s a missed opportunity for the kids to learn more about Jesus since the RCC does a poor job of teaching. It was a tense conversation. He does not understand how poorly uncatechised people are drawn into other churches. I think kids are vunerable because the other churches are fun. My husband also denies that Protestantism is at its roots anti-Catholic, that anti-Catholic sentiments are taught. He takes great umbridge at the suggestion that Protestants are anti-Catholic yet he concedes none of them accept the Real Presence — an he himself is considering RICA. Sometimes it’s baffling and I wanted a pulse check from others. Am I right to say no to the kids for visiting the Lutheran church for services or summer Bible school?

 

[Sepharad]

My children were invited to “try out” a visit to a Lutheran church. They are 8 and just had First Holy Communion. I told them no, it could be confusing and other churches don’t believe that Jesus is in Holy communion. My non-Catholic spouse strongly disagrees and thinks it’s a missed opportunity for the kids to learn more about Jesus since the RCC does a poor job of teaching. It was a tense conversation. He does not understand how poorly uncatechised people are drawn into other churches. I think kids are vunerable because the other churches are fun. My husband also denies that Protestantism is at its roots anti-Catholic, that anti-Catholic sentiments are taught. He takes great umbridge at the suggestion that Protestants are anti-Catholic yet he concedes none of them accept the Real Presence — an he himself is considering RICA. Sometimes it’s baffling and I wanted a pulse check from others. Am I right to say no to the kids for visiting the Lutheran church for services or summer Bible school?

Lutherans and Anglicans believe in consubstantiation, which is the belief that the wafer and wine become the body and blood of Jesus, but also remain bread and wine.

Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox believe in transubstantiation, which is the belief that the bread and wine become, fully and entirely, the body and blood of Jesus.

So to say Lutherans do not believe that the bread and wine truly become the body and blood of Jesus is incorrect.

 

[wmscott]

I am with you! saying “No” is just fine. You are the parent and at their age, they do not need the confusion of opposing religions. Until they are old enough to know that there are those out there that are at odds with the Catholic faith and that there are vastly differing views, they need your guidance and protection until they can fend for themselves.

 

[bilop]

My children were invited to “try out” a visit to a Lutheran church. They are 8 and just had First Holy Communion. I told them no, it could be confusing and other churches don’t believe that Jesus is in Holy communion. My non-Catholic spouse strongly disagrees and thinks it’s a missed opportunity for the kids to learn more about Jesus since the RCC does a poor job of teaching. It was a tense conversation. He does not understand how poorly uncatechised people are drawn into other churches. I think kids are vunerable because the other churches are fun. My husband also denies that Protestantism is at its roots anti-Catholic, that anti-Catholic sentiments are taught. He takes great umbridge at the suggestion that Protestants are anti-Catholic yet he concedes none of them accept the Real Presence — an he himself is considering RICA. Sometimes it’s baffling and I wanted a pulse check from others. Am I right to say no to the kids for visiting the Lutheran church for services or summer Bible school?

I agree with you completely!

God Bless

 

[Madaglan]

I used to attend the services of a Lutheran church when younger whenever by Cub Scout pack would help out at the services there. I also went to Christmas Vigil services at a Lutheran church because my grandparents are Lutheran. I don’ think mere exposure to Lutheran liturgy is bad, but to have the children go to the Lutheran liturgy simply to “try out” might lead to some confusion. If the service is of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, then it very well may be “fun.” But the Lutherans also have churches (mostly WELS, ELS, LCMS) that are more liturgical and even traditional in character.

The Lutherans are different from the other Protestants because Lutherans generally accept the Real Presence–although they believe it differently than Catholics, as they do not subscribe to transubstantiation.

 

[water]

It doesn’t make sense to take your kid to another church who teaches differently.

I hope that your spouse, after going through RCIA, will change his mind and keep your kid where he is right now.

 

[Tsuwano]

Once your children are fully aware of their Catholic identity and are old enough to realize that there are indeed differences between Lutheran and Catholic beliefs, then I would allow them to decide if they wish to visit that church or not, but until then I would keep them very close to the bosom of the Church. Quite frankly, when I was young I visited my grandparent’s Southern Baptist church and even attended Bible school. The experience firmly planted the seed of Catholicism within me and helped me to take my faith seriously.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Since your children have already received First Communion, I would say no, they have an obligation to go to Sunday Mass. Plus, the similarities of the Lutheran service (especially if they are LCMS, WELS, etc.) could confuse them, if they offer communion, and profess a belief in the Real Presence, your kids my think “what’s the difference?”, kwim? My in-laws are Southern Baptist, and when we visit I let my kids go to church (which for the kids is Sunday School) with them if they want, but they’re preschool age, can’t receive the Eucharist yet, and my il’s church’s Sunday school program for that age is just stories about Jesus and other Biblical characters (for example, they went last week, and it was Noah’s ark). And they live over 2 hours away, so it doesn’t happen very often, and it’s fun for them to spend more time w/ their grandparents (the only ones they have, unfortunately). But like I said previously, once they receive First Communion, even when we visit, they’ll be going to Mass w/ us (dh joined the Church last year) at the local Catholic Church.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Madaglan]

Since your children have already received First Communion, I would say no, they have an obligation to go to Sunday Mass. Plus, the similarities of the Lutheran service (especially if they are LCMS, WELS, etc.) could confuse them, if they offer communion, and profess a belief in the Real Presence, your kids my think “what’s the difference?”, kwim? My in-laws are Southern Baptist, and when we visit I let my kids go to church (which for the kids is Sunday School) with them if they want, but they’re preschool age, can’t receive the Eucharist yet, and my il’s church’s Sunday school program for that age is just stories about Jesus and other Biblical characters (for example, they went last week, and it was Noah’s ark). And they live over 2 hours away, so it doesn’t happen very often, and it’s fun for them to spend more time w/ their grandparents (the only ones they have, unfortunately). But like I said previously, once they receive First Communion, even when we visit, they’ll be going to Mass w/ us (dh joined the Church last year) at the local Catholic Church.

In Christ,

Ellen

There’s always the Saturday Vigil Mass that fulfills one’s Sunday obligation.

I’ve done that to “check out” some non-Catholic churches. I did that a few years ago to see what a Baptist service is like.

 

[gcnuss]

I used to attend the services of a Lutheran church when younger whenever by Cub Scout pack would help out at the services there. I also went to Christmas Vigil services at a Lutheran church because my grandparents are Lutheran. I don’ think mere exposure to Lutheran liturgy is bad, but to have the children go to the Lutheran liturgy simply to “try out” might lead to some confusion. If the service is of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, then it very well may be “fun.” But the Lutherans also have churches (mostly WELS, ELS, LCMS) that are more liturgical and even traditional in character.

With regard to the bolded part of your comments, the congregations in the ELCA vary widely. While some do have “fun” worship (I speak of what is usually called “contemporary”), I have been in others where worship is as traditional as you will see anywhere, even to the use of incense and sanctus bells.

The Lutherans are different from the other Protestants because Lutherans generally accept the Real Presence–although they believe it differently than Catholics, as they do not subscribe to transubstantiation.

Thank you for noting that difference. It is an important element of Lutheran theology to believe Christ’s words – “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.” While we don’t claim to know how it happens, we certainly believe that Christ is truly present in the sacrament.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Good for you. It would be a sin for your to send your kids to this Church or for you to go. By attending their service you are legitimizing their false beliefs. The Catholic Church holds that that protestants are heretics. We want to be loving to them but we do not want to encourage thier beliefs. This would be like you and your kids shooting up heroin so you can be a companion to an addict. You are haming yourself and setting a poor example for the addict and your kids. You should show the addict how he can get help and find the truth of sobriety.

 

[Madaglan]

With regard to the bolded part of your comments, the congregations in the ELCA vary widely. While some do have “fun” worship (I speak of what is usually called “contemporary”), I have been in others where worship is as traditional as you will see anywhere, even to the use of incense and sanctus bells.

Thank you for noting that difference. It is an important element of Lutheran theology to believe Christ’s words – “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.” While we don’t claim to know how it happens, we certainly believe that Christ is truly present in the sacrament.

All right. I’ll take your words.

Does your church offer contemporary as well as traditional services?

I notice that many mainline Protestant churches now offer two different services on Sunday for different tastes. I’ve seen a few LCMS churches who seem to be following suit.

 

[khutcheson]

I am with you! saying “No” is just fine. You are the parent and at their age, they do not need the confusion of opposing religions. Until they are old enough to know that there are those out there that are at odds with the Catholic faith and that there are vastly differing views, they need your guidance and protection until they can fend for themselves.

OP is NOT THE parent!!!

She is ONE of the parents. You just told her to ignore her husband’s wishes. Only the Catholic parent’s wishes count? I must have missed that class in law school.

I’m a divorce lawyer. People (not the OP), but people in general who think that their “rights” or opinions count and their spouses opinions don’t count tend to need the services of people like me. Honestly, the quoted response angers me. I see people like this (not the OP, but people who think that THEY are THE parent) in court all the time in some of the ugliest custody disputes you can imagine. Most children have two parents. Ignoring the wishes/feelings/desires of the other parent is a great way to meet new people (like lawyers, judges, therapists, police officers, process servers, mediators, special masters etc.)

This is BAD advice. OP needs to work this out with her husband. While you might think her wishes and reasoning valid (and indeed I think they are, HIS wishes and reasoning are simlilarly valid). The price of a marriage between a Catholic and a Protestant is that issues like this will arise and your assumption that her Catholic faith trumps his faith is flawed.

 

[Syele]

As a protestant, I wouldn’t let my child go to a church service without me that believed differently than my family unless I was sure she was what you’d call “properly catechized.” If I was with her, I could use the opportunity to explain how not everyone believes the same things we do, and why we believe what we do instead of what they taught. The best way to know if the church they want to visit teaches anti-Catholic sentiments, is to visit it yourself.

One exception I make to this is Vacation Bible school. I have found that the VBS rarely teach a whole lot of anything. They just add a couple bible verses and some sound bites to the fun. Almost all the churches use the same VBS curriculum all over the US. There are usually only a 4-6 different ones that all the churches choose from, so its purposely not deep and its fun for the kids to play there. If you see the theme they are using its easy to google it and see all they are teaching so you can talk about it at home or decide based on what they are teaching if its appropriate for your kids.

 

[khutcheson]

OP is NOT THE parent!!!

She is ONE of the parents. You just told her to ignore her husband’s wishes. Only the Catholic parent’s wishes count? I must have missed that class in law school.

I’m a divorce lawyer. People (not the OP), but people in general who think that their “rights” or opinions count and their spouses opinions don’t count tend to need the services of people like me. Honestly, the quoted response angers me. I see people like this (not the OP, but people who think that THEY are THE parent) in court all the time in some of the ugliest custody disputes you can imagine. Most children have two parents. Ignoring the wishes/feelings/desires of the other parent is a great way to meet new people (like lawyers, judges, therapists, police officers, process servers, mediators, special masters etc.)

This is BAD advice. OP needs to work this out with her husband. While you might think her wishes and reasoning valid (and indeed I think they are, HIS wishes and reasoning are simlilarly valid). The price of a marriage between a Catholic and a Protestant is that issues like this will arise and your assumption that her Catholic faith trumps his faith will not be respected by the courts, and may not be respected by Father.

Fathers count too.

 

[thirdn6]

My children were invited to “try out” a visit to a Lutheran church. They are 8 and just had First Holy Communion. I told them no, it could be confusing and other churches don’t believe that Jesus is in Holy communion. My non-Catholic spouse strongly disagrees and thinks it’s a missed opportunity for the kids to learn more about Jesus since the RCC does a poor job of teaching. It was a tense conversation. He does not understand how poorly uncatechised people are drawn into other churches. I think kids are vunerable because the other churches are fun. My husband also denies that Protestantism is at its roots anti-Catholic, that anti-Catholic sentiments are taught. He takes great umbridge at the suggestion that Protestants are anti-Catholic yet he concedes none of them accept the Real Presence — an he himself is considering RICA. Sometimes it’s baffling and I wanted a pulse check from others. Am I right to say no to the kids for visiting the Lutheran church for services or summer Bible school?

From Proverbs…

27 Can a man carry fire in his bosom and his clothes not be burned? 28 Or can one walk upon hot coals and his feet not be scorched?

How much more to kids???

 

[thedavidwilson]

OP is NOT THE parent!!!

She is ONE of the parents. You just told her to ignore her husband’s wishes. Only the Catholic parent’s wishes count? I must have missed that class in law school.

I’m a divorce lawyer. People (not the OP), but people in general who think that their “rights” or opinions count and their spouses opinions don’t count tend to need the services of people like me. Honestly, the quoted response angers me. I see people like this (not the OP, but people who think that THEY are THE parent) in court all the time in some of the ugliest custody disputes you can imagine. Most children have two parents. Ignoring the wishes/feelings/desires of the other parent is a great way to meet new people (like lawyers, judges, therapists, police officers, process servers, mediators, special masters etc.)

This is BAD advice. OP needs to work this out with her husband. While you might think her wishes and reasoning valid (and indeed I think they are, HIS wishes and reasoning are simlilarly valid). The price of a marriage between a Catholic and a Protestant is that issues like this will arise and your assumption that her Catholic faith trumps his faith is flawed.

OK, rephrase the statement:“You are the Catholic parent”

Before they got married the wife gave a promise to raise the children Catholic. She should have gotten a promise from the husband to do the same. Protestantism is a heresy, it does not contain the fullness of the truth (it does contain some lies) and this woman will risk her child’s soul by letting him go there. If the husband wanted to take the child to a pornographic movie or a crack house should the wife let him? No, because that would harm the child and those venues and lifestyles are not the Truth, not the way God wanted us to live.

I know people don’t like to hear that Protestants are heretics but that is the Truth. Jesus founded ONE Chruch, the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit until the end of time. Protestant’s came along 1500 years later because they did not like what the Church founded by Christ and guided by God taught. People want to feel warm and fuzzy and “ecumenical”, but the Catholic Faith does Trump other faiths because the Catholic faith contains the fullness of the Truth. If the Catholic faith did not contain the fullness of the Truth then why be Catholic or any religion. Might as well be a muslim or hindu since they are all “ok”. Or I could make up my own religion like the 40,000 protestant sects that exist.

I hope in your divorce lawywer work you take into account Matthew Ch 19:

3 And there came to him the Pharisees tempting him, and saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: 5 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.

6 Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder. 7 They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away? 8 He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.

*Note: 9 “Except it be”… In the case of fornication, that is, of adultery, the wife may be put away: but even then the husband cannot marry another as long as the wife is living. *

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=19&l=5&f=s#x

 

[khutcheson]

OK, rephrase the statement:“You are the Catholic parent”

Before they got married the wife gave a promise to raise the children Catholic. She should have gotten a promise from the husband to do the same. Protestantism is a heresy, it does not contain the fullness of the truth (it does contain some lies) and this woman will risk her child’s soul by letting him go there. If the husband wanted to take the child to a pornographic movie or a crack house should the wife let him? No, because that would harm the child and those venues and lifestyles are not the Truth, not the way God wanted us to live.

I know people don’t like to hear that Protestants are heretics but that is the Truth. Jesus founded ONE Chruch, the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit until the end of time. Protestant’s came along 1500 years later because they did not like what the Church founded by Christ and guided by God taught. People want to feel warm and fuzzy and “ecumenical”, but the Catholic Faith does Trump other faiths because the Catholic faith contains the fullness of the Truth. If the Catholic faith did not contain the fullness of the Truth then why be Catholic or any religion. Might as well be a muslim or hindu since they are all “ok”. Or I could make up my own religion like the 40,000 protestant sects that exist.

I hope in your divorce lawywer work you take into account Matthew Ch 19:

3 And there came to him the Pharisees tempting him, and saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: 5 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.

6 Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder. 7 They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away? 8 He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.

*Note: 9 “Except it be”… In the case of fornication, that is, of adultery, the wife may be put away: but even then the husband cannot marry another as long as the wife is living. *

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=19&l=5&f=s#x

Her promise to the Church doesn’t bind her husband and it certainly doesn’t bind a court.

When you marry someone who’s theology isn’t the same as yours you have no legal or (IMO) moral right to insist that your theology trumps your partners, no matter how convinced you are of the righteousness of your cause.

I used to think the phrase unequally yoked referred to a marriage between a believer and an unbeliever. After spending several months on this board, I wonder.

BTW, comparing Protestantism to pornography is offensive.

With respect to your admonishment about Mathew 19, I will treat your post with more respect than you treat me as a Protestant amd respond. I have often wondered about this. I am honestly troubled by the fact that I help break apart marriages. I have thought about this often, and pray about it occasionally. I believe that I help make truly ugly situations better. I often pray before I go to court (or even meet with angry people). I don’t pray to win, I pray that God’s will be done, that I help bring peace to ALL involved, that the judge will have the wisdom and strength to do what’s right.

Am I justified in working in family law? I don’t know.

 

[thedavidwilson]

Her promise to the Church doesn’t bind her husband and it certainly doesn’t bind a court.

 

[LutheranDK]

My children were invited to “try out” a visit to a Lutheran church. They are 8 and just had First Holy Communion. I told them no, it could be confusing and other churches don’t believe that Jesus is in Holy communion. My non-Catholic spouse strongly disagrees and thinks it’s a missed opportunity for the kids to learn more about Jesus since the RCC does a poor job of teaching. It was a tense conversation. He does not understand how poorly uncatechised people are drawn into other churches. I think kids are vunerable because the other churches are fun. My husband also denies that Protestantism is at its roots anti-Catholic, that anti-Catholic sentiments are taught. He takes great umbridge at the suggestion that Protestants are anti-Catholic yet he concedes none of them accept the Real Presence — an he himself is considering RICA. Sometimes it’s baffling and I wanted a pulse check from others. Am I right to say no to the kids for visiting the Lutheran church for services or summer Bible school?

You are wrong in saying that no protestant church teaches real presence. The Lutheran church does!