RCIA and priest teaching not entirely orthodox topics

[Brendan]

Yeah. Except for all of those things.

But having seen women at Black Friday sales, I think having men run the world leads to far LESS violence

 

[Xpiatio]

But having seen women at Black Friday sales, I think having men run the world leads to far LESS violence

Wow that escalated quickly. . . . .

 

[Xpiatio]

The parts that shouldn’t be taken literally are particularly acute in the Old Testament, where God creates the world in seven days; the Catholic Church teaches that these may not have been seven literal 24-hour days, but could represent long periods of time. That’s just one example.

Marian doctrines shift in emphasis over time–what Catholic theologians are writing as a group today about Mary and what Catholic theologians were writing as a group seventy years ago is quite different in tone, content, and purpose.

I’m not sure I would use the word “infallible” as casually as you seem to be using it. Saying that the content of church teaching never changes is tantamount to saying God can never teach you anything new, or reveal deeper meanings in old content.

I’m saying that the priest stated that the whole Bible, from beginning to end, stated that it shouldn’t be taken literally. He stated this notion many times through out the night.

Let me further explain my thought on infallible statements. Yes I know our understanding of our faith can evolve over time. It’s been happening for 2000 years or so. I’m saying that infallible statements can not be held as false, or perhaps the church cannot do a complete 180 degree turn and reverse its teaching,

 

[Xpiatio]

forums.catholic-questions.org/member.php?u=109280

Can someone please PM Father David and ask that he come to this thread? I’d do it myself, but I’m a minor, and I don’t know if I’d be violating his diocese’s safe environment policy with that. I’ve attached a link to his profile.

Since I’m a new member, I don’t think I could. And I wouldn’t know this Father David from Adam, respectfully.

 

[1newcatholic]

I’m saying that the priest stated that the whole Bible, from beginning to end, stated that it shouldn’t be taken literally. He stated this notion many times through out the night.

Let me further explain my thought on infallible statements. Yes I know our understanding of our faith can evolve over time. It’s been happening for 2000 years or so. I’m saying that infallible statements can not be held as false, or perhaps the church cannot do a complete 180 degree turn and reverse its teaching,

It surprises me that a priest would repeatedly say that the entire Bible shouldn’t be taken literally. Is it possible he was generalizing for the sake of a general audience?

I notice you mentioned that you were thinking about speaking to the bishop. If it comes to that, it’s fine, but I would encourage you to speak one on one with this particular priests and respectfully express your concerns.

 

[Xpiatio]

It surprises me that a priest would repeatedly say that the entire Bible shouldn’t be taken literally. Is it possible he was generalizing for the sake of a general audience?

I notice you mentioned that you were thinking about speaking to the bishop. If it comes to that, it’s fine, but I would encourage you to speak one on one with this particular priests and respectfully express your concerns.

Oh I plan to talk to him during the class, as I mentioned that I thought going to the bishop was too early to do.

 

[1newcatholic]

Oh I plan to talk him during the class, as I mentioned that I thought going to the bishop was too early to do.

That might work. You might think about talking to him outside of class–I’ve seen people use the RCIA session as a chance to confront the priest about some particular issue of disagreement. It rarely goes well. It’s better to do that one-on-one, to prevent the discussion from degenerating into a competition. That’s probably not the best thing for people thinking about joining the Catholic faith to witnesses at the early stages of their journey. Regardless, I’ll be thinking and praying for your intentions.

 

[Xpiatio]

That might work. You might think about talking to him outside of class–I’ve seen people use the RCIA session as a chance to confront the priest about some particular issue of disagreement. It rarely goes well. It’s better to do that one-on-one, to prevent the discussion from degenerating into a competition. That’s probably not the best thing for people thinking about joining the Catholic faith to witnesses at the early stages of their journey. Regardless, I’ll be thinking and praying for your intentions.

I completely agree about not being confrontational. My original question was about how do I go about talking to the priest. I do not want to do it out of disrespect and not be confrontational. If I go about it as “I’m trying to wrap my mind around this or that and what I was previously taught”.

1. I will ask how does calling God: Mother conincide with the doctrine of the Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit
2. I will ask how does he think about those parts that we are to take literal. i.e. eat my flesh, this is my body, and Jesus giving power to forgive sins.
3. I will bring up the apostolic letter by Pope John Paul II and how it was deemed as “stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.” which will lead me into the question on what can evolve vs what can be reversed.

Thank you for your prayers.

 

[InternetWoman]

When will this women becoming Priest thing actually go away? Saint Pope John Paul II put this thing to bed once and for all. The church has no authority to make it happen. Why do people still think this is even remotely possible? I just don’t understand it at all.

Me too!

 

[InternetWoman]

In terms of the Trinity, perhaps it would help to think of God as Creator.

No. “Creator” is a term that defines him in relationship to what He has done for us. As are the terms “Redeemer” (for the Son) and “Sanctifier” for the Holy Spirit. In terms of the Trinity (God’s own life), the first person is FATHER, the second is SON, and the third is Holy Spirit.
The first person Father’s from all eternity to all eternity, the Son exists because of that fathering, from all eternity to all eternity, and the Holy Spirit is the love between them, from all eternity to all eternity.

We can say God gave some of His attributes to men and some to women. Thus we can see God’s love and caring nature in women. This does not, however, entitle us to call God “mother”. Jesus said to call him Father.

 

[fide]

I would like to consider myself a catholic who has a firm grip on my faith. I know what I believe and why I believe it. I may not know the fine details of everything. But I know enough to walk my way through the Bible when talking to my protestant friends.

I started attending the RCIA classes with my gf, who is learning the faith to become Catholic. I am starting to see where the priests stands on some things, which would explain some events that happened in the past. Tonight he mentioned that its ok to call God: Mother. And the Catholics do not take the Bible literally. (Initially thinking about when Jesus says “this is my body” and how we take it literally.) He also mentioned the possibility of women becoming priests and possibility of having married priests again. He stated that we dont have to believe the Marian doctrines. And that because of the Dead Sea scrolls we have greater understand of what was taught back then.

I know that God revealed himself to us in the masculine form. I also know that Catholics believe that the authors of the Bible used literary styles when writing. 1. Literal 2. Figuratively. and I forget the other 2 off hand.

Since I can easily jump of the deep end with apologetics, it would be information overload for those that are inquiring about the faith. I also do not want to disrespect the priest and don’t want to start a confrontation. How do I bring up these items and any future items that I know that are wrong or even shades of grey?

You could go the the priest alone, and address these doctrinal issues; following likely failure in that you could go to (or write, if an appointment seems difficult) the bishop. But I would recommend going to another parish and hope for a better RCIA program. Even if the present priest were to be told by the bishop to stop teaching such confusion, he would not thereby become a teacher of authentic faith and truth. Such a transformation would be a miracle indeed, and would probably take a long time of re-formation. A different RCIA program seems the prudent choice, if that is possible.

We must pray for priests and bishops. We need holy men, zealous and authentic men of the Church.

 

[Xpiatio]

My gf and I went out for dinner last night. I talked to her about my concerns this last session. It was the first night of “real” teaching. The first class was just to get to know each other. She mentioned that with me knowing what I know, she would get a well rounded view of the Catholic faith.

The priest will be gone this coming week. The Director of Religious Education will be presenting this coming week with the topic of Bible and Sacraments. I’ve been told that the DRE doesn’t know as much as the priest does. I will bring up the topic of taking the Bible literal. I think I will know more the week after, when the priest comes back. It will be then I will bring up the other topics that concern me.

I can’t wait until we get into actual references from the Catechism and the Bible. So far its been taking the Priest for his word.

 

[MacQ]

I’m in a catch 22 about finding another class. Her sponsor is my mom and my mom swears up and down about how she loves the parish. I chatted with my mom about my concerns right after class. I’m trying not to jump too deep so the new students wouldnt get lost. And if it gets confrontational , it would leave a bad taste in some mouths. I could write a letter to the bishop since the bishop over sees the education in the diocese, but I think its too early for that.

I suggest that since the sessions are for enquirers, you sit there and keep your mouth shut.
You are not there to be super-catholic star of the class (there’s one of those in every class ).
Your role should be a support role.

If something arises akin to the concerns you’ve laid out, I suggest you make an appointment to meet privately with the priest…share your concerns and have a discussion to clarify his statements.

Bottom line…instead of getting all combative about it, be open to learn something.
I can tell you that lifelong, well educated catholics always say they learned things they never knew.

 

[Xpiatio]

remove this post

 

[Xpiatio]

I suggest that since the sessions are for enquirers, you sit there and keep your mouth shut.
You are not there to be super-catholic star of the class (there’s one of those in every class ).
Your role should be a support role.

If something arises akin to the concerns you’ve laid out, I suggest you make an appointment to meet privately with the priest…share your concerns and have a discussion to clarify his statements.

Bottom line…instead of getting all combative about it, be open to learn something.
I can tell you that lifelong, well educated catholics always say they learned things they never knew.

I’ll politely will say “No”. The class includes new people inquiring about the Catholic faith as well as Catholics learning more about their faith. I’m not trying to be combative, but rather civilly asking for more explanation cause I was taught something different. Doing so would arise explanation and discussion. None of my questions in the class were negative and they have spurred discussion. I will not just “sit there and keep my mouth shut”. You could have stated that in a more charitable way.

If I didn’t ask questions and spur discussion, how would I learn more about my faith? I’m also concerned about the people attending and them hearing what the church teaches.

I wouldn’t learn anything new if I were just to sit there and keep quiet. if that was the case, I would go straight to the parish that I know teaches orthodoxy, the one parish that the priest keeps on bringing up.

 

[MacQ]

I’ll politely will say “No”. The class includes new people inquiring about the Catholic faith as well as Catholics learning more about their faith. I’m not trying to be combative, but rather civilly asking for more explanation cause I was taught something different. Doing so would arise explanation and discussion. None of my questions in the class were negative and they have spurred discussion. I will not just “sit there and keep my mouth shut”. You could have stated that in a more charitable way.

If I didn’t ask questions and spur discussion, how would I learn more about my faith? I’m also concerned about the people attending and them hearing what the church teaches.

I wouldn’t learn anything new if I were just to sit there and keep quiet. if that was the case, I would go straight to the parish that I know teaches orthodoxy, the one parish that the priest keeps on bringing up.

Are you saying that your RCIA is open to catholics who aren’t there with an enquirer? That your parish is mixing RCIA and adult education?
That is highly unusual.
RCIA is specifically for non-catholics exploring the faith.
Catholics who come along with their enquiring friend or loved one invariably DO learn a lot about the faith that they didn’t know before.
But that’s not what the classes are for.
How can you learn more? There are other places for catholics to do that in your adult education program. This particular program is not about you.

Sorry I was blunt, but it is wrong for you to get in the way of the people the ministry is for by dominating the discussion for your own self satisfaction. So, I think to say it less bluntly, you should consider listening instead of being the centerpiece, and let the process play out for the enquirers. Let them ask their own questions. And take yours and your challenges to a class for catholics.

 

[Xpiatio]

Are you saying that your RCIA is open to catholics who aren’t there with an enquirer? That your parish is mixing RCIA and adult education?
That is highly unusual.
RCIA is specifically for non-catholics exploring the faith.
Catholics who come along with their enquiring friend or loved one invariably DO learn a lot about the faith that they didn’t know before.
But that’s not what the classes are for.
How can you learn more? There are other places for catholics to do that in your adult education program. This particular program is not about you.

Sorry I was blunt, but it is wrong for you to get in the way of the people the ministry is for by dominating the discussion for your own self satisfaction. So, I think to say it less bluntly, you should consider listening instead of being the centerpiece, and let the process play out for the enquirers. Let them ask their own questions. And take yours and your challenges to a class for catholics.

I think you have me labeled wrong in your mind. Yes there are Catholics in the course who are learning more about their faith. I am not dominating the discussion. Other people all questions. Highly surprised that you would think that. There are done Catholics who are there for refresher. The rcia members from last year. The new rcia people and their sponsors and loved ones. The nature of the course, or by means they are doing it, is to invoke discussions.

Regardless, I think we all should be concerned about non orthodoxy being taught. Catholic Church is a far cry from burger king: you can have it your way. The catholic church states specifically what it believes. Why have an rcia class that teaches false beliefs.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

If I didn’t ask questions and spur discussion, how would I learn more about my faith? I’m also concerned about the people attending and them hearing what the church teaches.

RCIA gets used as a dumping ground in many parishes. Rather than have a decent adult faith formation program, they tell current Catholics go to attend RCIA sessions, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR, they tell people returning to the Church after a period of time to attend RCIA sessions, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR, they direct people needing the sacrament of confirmation to RCIA, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR. Not that I get frustrated by this or anything.

I’m sure you’re being polite and not dominating the discussion, but please keep in mind that RCIA isn’t for people in your situation, practicing Catholics who already know the basics. At various times I’ve had sponsors, and even team members, try to take the discussion off into arcane corners. There’s nothing like making a simple statement like “Life is precious and needs to be protected from conception to natural death,” only to have someone start asking about exceptions relating to double effect, leaving the catechumens with puzzled looks and asking “double what?” Or to talk about the sanctity of marriage and have someone start asking about annulments and the Pauline Privilege. The only thing you can suggest is to discuss it after class because it’s beyond what we’re covering.

It’s one thing if the questions are coming from the people in RCIA because they want to become Catholic, and something else if it’s coming from a team member, sponsor, or supporter who already has the basics and is asking out of curiosity.

 

[Xpiatio]

RCIA gets used as a dumping ground in many parishes. Rather than have a decent adult faith formation program, they tell current Catholics go to attend RCIA sessions, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR, they tell people returning to the Church after a period of time to attend RCIA sessions, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR, they direct people needing the sacrament of confirmation to RCIA, EVEN THOUGH THAT’S NOT WHAT RCIA IS FOR. Not that I get frustrated by this or anything.

I’m sure you’re being polite and not dominating the discussion, but please keep in mind that RCIA isn’t for people in your situation, practicing Catholics who already know the basics. At various times I’ve had sponsors, and even team members, try to take the discussion off into arcane corners. There’s nothing like making a simple statement like “Life is precious and needs to be protected from conception to natural death,” only to have someone start asking about exceptions relating to double effect, leaving the catechumens with puzzled looks and asking “double what?” Or to talk about the sanctity of marriage and have someone start asking about annulments and the Pauline Privilege. The only thing you can suggest is to discuss it after class because it’s beyond what we’re covering.

It’s one thing if the questions are coming from the people in RCIA because they want to become Catholic, and something else if it’s coming from a team member, sponsor, or supporter who already has the basics and is asking out of curiosity.

Yes you are not understand where I’m coming from. I AM NOT diving deep into apologetics. If something comes up I ask a simple question. You ASSUME that I’m digging into deep theological debates. I AM NOT doing that. Please quit assuming that “I shouldn’t be there”. My gf and hoping to be fiance is taking the class. I’m there to be supportive and secondary to learn something. Because of the primary I HAD A CONCERN that there was unorthodox teaching.

Moderators, I received my answer to my question. Thank you for all who have answered. I feel as if this has not turned into a bunny trail. Moderators, if it is permitted, can you close this thread.

 

[fide]

My gf and I went out for dinner last night. I talked to her about my concerns this last session. It was the first night of “real” teaching. The first class was just to get to know each other. She mentioned that with me knowing what I know, she would get a well rounded view of the Catholic faith.

The priest will be gone this coming week. The Director of Religious Education will be presenting this coming week with the topic of Bible and Sacraments. I’ve been told that the DRE doesn’t know as much as the priest does. I will bring up the topic of taking the Bible literal. I think I will know more the week after, when the priest comes back. It will be then I will bring up the other topics that concern me.

I can’t wait until we get into actual references from the Catechism and the Bible. So far its been taking the Priest for his word.

Well, I hope that the things that the DRE doesn’t know, that your priest does “know”, includes the theological “progressivism” that your OP described. I have encountered all sorts of philosophies among RCIA leaders, and your priest seems to speak for one that, I think and hope and pray, is losing influence as time goes on. But still, they can and do cause confusion among the faithful.

Yes, stay as close as you can to Scripture and the Catechism, and try to carefully discern in the RCIA presenters, what is mere opinion, and what is the holy teaching of the Church. May the Lord keep you and your friend safe in the Truth of the one Gospel!